Experts say that barring the unexpected, Democrats will win control of the U.S. House of Representatives in November

[Fischkoepfin 1]

...the last 6 years, the Republicans were almost exclusively in control of the country, and it's not as if things have dramatically improved since then..

They say all politics is local, I take it one step further and say all politics is personal. The Bush years have been the best years, professionally speaking, of my short life. Do I think Bush gets the credit for that? No. But does the charge that America isn't doing well resonate with people like me? Not at all. I'm doing well, everyone I know is doing well. My neighborhood has never looked better. My town is growing at faster rate than I've ever seen it grow. Where I stand, things look very good.

I have to agree with Gupt here. If the country is falling apart as some people claim

it is, it must be happening in some parallel Universe.

No, it's just that not everyone is living in the same area as Gupt or holding the same job. Yet, if you look at the area I live in or work in my field, things look totally different. Poverty and crime are on the rise, the public infrastructure, (roads, etc.) is disintegrating, and jobs that pay well are hard to come by. Same country, same universe, just different experiences.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

i'd take his answer as a yes to your question, btw

With respect, she can think for herself

As I said, I'm not against voting. Rather I resent the mediocrity of the choices.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Better to deface your voting paper (which gets counted as a destroyed ballot) is a better use of the vote than voting for "the lesser evil". But that's just my opinion.

I just don't understand this perspective. I know a very nice anarchist who thinks the same way.

Isn't doing SOME good better than doing no good at all? Why not? Withdrawing from the process does not seem to me to be the best way to a) effect change of any type or B) change or challenge the system.

I ask because I'd really like to understand.

I agree with believing in the political process, however, if for example the two presidential candidates were Stalin and Hitler, would you still vote for one of them?

I just don't understand this perspective. I know a very nice anarchist who thinks the same way.

Isn't doing SOME good better than doing no good at all? Why not? Withdrawing from the process does not seem to me to be the best way to a) effect change of any type or B) change or challenge the system.

I ask because I'd really like to understand.

For starters - its your ballot and you can choose to do whatever your like with it, whether you choose to vote Republican, Democrat, Donald Duck or simply wipe your ####### with it, that's the freedom you enjoy.

All three are valid means of expressing your political opinions, as opposed to not voting at all - where your ballot is not counted (at all) and you have essentially no voice whatsoever. These days however, and this is my view, wiping your ####### with the ballot is pretty much the best option. It's not withdrawing from the process - your vote still gets counted.

Fishkoepfin made the point earlier that it’s the system that needs changing - and it’s the system that is the problem. Its simple - election campaigns in the US and most other western countries have been taken over by clever marketers who use advertising strategies to make people think that a particular candidate stands for their interests when they really don't. Political discourse (certainly during the 2004 US election was heavily dominated with sloganising, with the barest pretense of actual debate).

Even if say, the Dems were to win the next election I have to say I honestly don't think it will make much difference - there's really no such thing as the "lesser evil", just a continuous spiral of "business as usual" mediocrity.

Incidentally I'm all for compulsory voting - if you can be fined by the courts for not turning up to jury duty I don't see this as much of a stretch.

[Alex+R 0]

I agree with believing in the political process, however, if for example the two presidential candidates were Stalin and Hitler, would you still vote for one of them?

I believe I'd still have to vote. And I don't think we're at that point, no matter how bleak things seem. Our international policy might not change, but in domestic policy, I believe there are still big differences between Ds and Rs.

That doesn't mean I don't recognize the fact that they are both parts of the same severely flawed machine.

[ChristinaM 0]

If you think that the country is doing well, come on up to Maine and take a look at the economy.

Take a look at the locals who can't afford housing because we've become a commuter zone to Boston, where the big-city salaries push out those of us on a Maine salary, or the houses being bought up by out-of-state investors and turned into high-priced rentals and vacation homes. Take a look at the closing paper mills and the decline of secondary industry. Take a look at the big businesses moving out of state because they can't afford to do business here due to restrictive tax policy. Take a look at the young professionals who grew up in Maine, but take their education elsewhere because they can't afford to live in the state anymore, and those older people who would love to come back but just can't do it. Come live in Portland and commute to Portsmouth NH because there just isn't IT work here - which is what my dyed-in-the-wool Mainah husband does. Come pay our personal tax burden (don't believe me, check it out: http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/tax...005/index.html).

Topping the list of least tax-friendly places is Maine. Its No. 1 ranking results from the great disparity between the fact that it is one of the lowest income states in the country yet has one of the highest rankings in terms of tax collection, said Curtis Dubay, an economist with the Tax Foundation.

Property taxes account for about 40 percent of the overall tax revenue Maine collects, and it has relatively high income tax rates – a top rate of 8.5 percent for all income above $16,950.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/08/real_estat...endly/index.htm

Come to Maine and tell me that the US has gained by this government. It's "The way life should be", folks!

Give me something different, and let's see where it gets us.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I agree with believing in the political process, however, if for example the two presidential candidates were Stalin and Hitler, would you still vote for one of them?

I believe I'd still have to vote. And I don't think we're at that point, no matter how bleak things seem. Our international policy might not change, but in domestic policy, I believe there are still big differences between Ds and Rs.

That doesn't mean I don't recognize the fact that they are both parts of the same severely flawed machine.

You would still be voting - just not for the two legged horse race

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I'll be voting but it will give me a headache

though I think the juvenile nature of much political debate in this country has given us the choices we deserve

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'll be voting but it will give me a headache

though I think the juvenile nature of much political debate in this country has given us the choices we deserve

True. It’s a continuation of the old master/slave dynamic. Quite simply, people want to be ruled - and its easier to let someone else do it than to take personal responsibility for doing it themselves.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

For starters - its your ballot and you can choose to do whatever your like with it, whether you choose to vote Republican, Democrat, Donald Duck or simply wipe your ####### with it, that's the freedom you enjoy.

All three are valid means of expressing your political opinions, as opposed to not voting at all

which 3 then?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

For starters - its your ballot and you can choose to do whatever your like with it, whether you choose to vote Republican, Democrat, Donald Duck or simply wipe your ####### with it, that's the freedom you enjoy.

All three are valid means of expressing your political opinions, as opposed to not voting at all

which 3 then?

4 then. OK?

[I'm Gone 60]

Incidentally I'm all for compulsory voting - if you can be fined by the courts for not turning up to jury duty I don't see this as much of a stretch.

Sorry I don't every uninformed numb skull voting and I don't want them serving on jury duty either.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but generally don't the countries with the highest voter turn out tend to be the most corrupt?

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Well Australia have compulsary voting and they do all right

though, I don't think compulsary voting is a good idea, but I do think people who don't vote should rescind the right to b*tch and moan about the result

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Incidentally I'm all for compulsory voting - if you can be fined by the courts for not turning up to jury duty I don't see this as much of a stretch.

Sorry I don't every uninformed numb skull voting and I don't want them serving on jury duty either.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but generally don't the countries with the highest voter turn out tend to be the most corrupt?

There's no ideal solution. It's in everyone's clear interest to care about who runs the country, unfortunately people are so used to apathy that they don't - and we end up with the situation of 35% of the population deciding what's best for everyone. Meanwhile everyone complains that nothing changes and that politicians are liars and full of $hit.

Unfortunately, its not the "middle-ground" who are more likely to vote, it’s the extremists. So again you have a situation (in the UK) where a party like the BNP can make significant gains at a local level, not because a lot more people are voting for them, but because people generally aren't participating in the process. Hardly ideal...

[Alex+R 0]

I don't know about compulsory voting in a country where the current government seems to be draining all the funds out of education. If you get my drift.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't know about compulsory voting in a country where the current government seems to be draining all the funds out of education. If you get my drift.

Also a problem.

For some reason I'm reminded of the quote on the other thread about the Iraqis being a people "who don't appreciate the value of freedom". Perhaps the accusation is just as apt for our own apathetic non-voters?