Jon Meacham, a gun owner, on restoring the assault weapons ban

[mawilson 2,133]

Translated = "You just PWND me so I'm going to question your way of posting. You're not playing fair. Let me win."

[slim 1,530]

Aren't people who have been convicted of crimes precluded from owning weapons? Hope some people are off probation before the impending apocalypse.

I'm pretty sure apocalypse nulifies probation laws. Also... I'll be off in a few months. I think we're good for that long. People are too lazy to have apocalypse in winter. Too cold.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What do you think it means in Somalia?

If you're thinking of "registered" firearms, then you're wrong again - the number of

registered guns in Somalia is reported to be around 14,000, while the estimated total

number of guns held (privately owned) by civilians in Somalia is between 550,000 and

750,000. Privately, as opposed to government owned (i.e. military and law enforcement).

I'm asking what relevance gun ownership has in relation to the security situation in those countries. Do you believe that if everyone had guns that somehow atrocities and breakdowns in law and order wouldn't happen.

Some people seem to be promoting guns as if they are a magic solution to all ills. This is obviously fallacious.

[slim 1,530]

I'm asking what relevance gun ownership has in relation to the security situation in those countries. Do you believe that if everyone had guns that somehow atrocities and breakdowns in law and order wouldn't happen.

So you're saying the U.S. isn't a pretty safe place to live?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Relatively? I have no doubt it's safer than Somalia. But that's not saying anything really.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Ron Burgundy

[slim 1,530]

Relatively? I have no doubt it's safer than Somalia. But that's not saying anything really.

Well you're the one that said we should compare the safety of places with a lot of guns verus places with few guns. You've already been PWNED on this once, when it was presented the US has over 8 times more guns than Somalia. You still wanna keep playing?

[The_Dude 1,142]

Well you're the one that said we should compare the safety of places with a lot of guns verus places with few guns. You've already been PWNED on this once, when it was presented the US has over 8 times more guns than Somalia. You still wanna keep playing?

Is that an aggregate figure, or a per capita figure slim?

[slim 1,530]

Is that an aggregate figure, or a per capita figure slim?

Read the thread.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Read the thread.

Of course the US has 25 times the population of Somalia but...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well you're the one that said we should compare the safety of places with a lot of guns verus places with few guns. You've already been PWNED on this once, when it was presented the US has over 8 times more guns than Somalia. You still wanna keep playing?

Lol grow up. I don't believe that guns are the cause of crime or political instability. The world is a complex place. Who knew.

Different cultures, different politics, different society, different history.

Do I think that guns are a benefit to the American public? Nope I don't.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Read the thread.

Right, so it's skewed data with no context.

The militia isn't necessarily a military unit. It could be something as simple as dad taking his son out to shoot quail and grouse. However, it's a lot more effective when it's several members of the community meeting to practice military tactics and shooting long distances with large caliber semiautomatic rifles.

A group of men READY to provide a common defense is all it really is. The U.S. military is nowhere near large enough to defend this whole country without our help. We have a pretty large country if you haven't noticed!

A militia isn't a military unit huh? Whose definition is that? If you don't even know what a militia is, how can anyone expect to intelligently debate gun rights or the 2nd amendment with you? At least you have dropped that insipid line that the 2nd amendment is there to protect the people from an overbearing government.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Rob & Mel

[HeatDeath 430]

It is by no means obvious that the problems in Somalia are made worse by widespread proliferation of guns. The Rwandan Massacre was conducted in large part with machetes. A failed state full of disparate factions who want to kill each other is what it is, and the level of technology available doesn't make that much difference.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Relatively? I have no doubt it's safer than Somalia. But that's not saying anything really.

Vermont is the safest place in the Western hemisphere. Anyone can carry a concealed weapon. No license needed.

The AWB will not be put back in place no matter how many phony gun owners you trot out. It is unconstitutional. It expired in 2004. The Supremes ruled on Heller and McDonald in 2008 and 2010. game over.

Peddle your civil rights restrictions elsewhere.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Right, so it's skewed data with no context.

A militia isn't a military unit huh? Whose definition is that? If you don't even know what a militia is, how can anyone expect to intelligently debate gun rights or the 2nd amendment with you? At least you have dropped that insipid line that the 2nd amendment is there to protect the people from an overbearing government.

The second amendment was very well settled and explained (along with the militia) by the Supreme Court in the Heller decision, 2008. Anyone who still doesn't know what it means, should read "Heller" Google "Heller"

It is an INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms. Further it was held in "McDonald", 2010 that the right also precludes infringment by state or local governments as well as by the Federal Government. Google "McDonald"

There is a series of further litigation being brought foward based on these.

Next: Challenging the arbitrary purchase age requirement of 21 for handguns, thereby arbitrarily denying 18-20 year old ADULT citizens and residents of their INDIVIDUAL RIGHT. Once that case is won (it will be) it will be determined that the government (Federal state and local) cannot arbitrarily restrict the right to keep and bear arms. How do you think that will play out as regards cosmetic Assault Weapons Bans?

The foundation has been laid to dismantle the existing unconstitutional rights restrictions. I am optimistc about the future and patient.

In other news...Wisconsin will pass "shall issue" concealed carry this year and the new Governor will sign it into law. Leaving Illinois the ONLY state that has no provision for concealed carry. That will be addressed with litigation.

[The_Dude 1,142]

The second amendment was very well settled and explained (along with the militia) by the Supreme Court in the Heller decision, 2008. Anyone who still doesn't know what it means, should read "Heller" Google "Heller"

It is an INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms. Further it was held in "McDonald", 2010 that the right also precludes infringment by state or local governments as well as by the Federal Government. Google "McDonald"

There is a series of further litigation being brought foward based on these.

Next: Challenging the arbitrary purchase age requirement of 21 for handguns, thereby arbitrarily denying 18-20 year old ADULT citizens and residents of their INDIVIDUAL RIGHT. Once that case is won (it will be) it will be determined that the government (Federal state and local) cannot arbitrarily restrict the right to keep and bear arms. How do you think that will play out as regards cosmetic Assault Weapons Bans?

The foundation has been laid to dismantle the existing unconstitutional rights restrictions. I am optimistc about the future and patient.

In other news...Wisconsin will pass "shall issue" concealed carry this year and the new Governor will sign it into law. Leaving Illinois the ONLY state that has no provision for concealed carry. That will be addressed with litigation.

Gary, I have read the Heller decision, have you actually read it, or are you just paraphrasing whatever Marc Levin said about it? So nice of you to cut and paste your response there. The heller decision should be an amendment, it changes the language and spirit of the 2nd amendment by essentially crossing out the context of the original intent.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Essentially becomes

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Ironic that a bunch of libertarians and conservatives applauding judicial activism.