Have You No Shame, Mr. President?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

saddam thumbing his nose at the u.n. for years, the refusing u.n. inspectors into his suspected wmd facilities, all of these events led to the political climate that made his ouster possible.

No, only Bush pulling a Saddam on the UN made it possible, my friend. Bush thumbed his nose at the UN, kicked the inspectors out of Iraq before they could complete their mission and went in w/o any mandate whatsoever. You might consider that brilliant, I call it a ** up!

Wow.....

You have opened my eyes..

Gosh. I was wrong... I was really wrong all along.......

My God.....

Thanks man. You made me....... different.

Your eyes will never be opened nor will you ever be different. Think you're funny? Think again. At least try...

[Fischkoepfin 1]

One thing I have learned through the events since 9-11 and the Iraq war is that people deserve the government(s) they get. Personally I think Bush has done a great job in this county and I approve of his actions in Iraq. However...I think there is a leason to be learned from the rebuilding of Iraq that needs to be taken vary seriously.

I agree that people deserve the government they get. But that applies to everywhere in the world. Bush is what Americans currently deserve. That may sound cynical, but most likely it will be a cathartic experience.

1) Saddam was in power because people let him be in power. It was in the US interest to take him out, but we really should not have been surprised that there is such a breakdown in the country since his party fell. These are people who let themselves be in the situation they were in. They are in their situation now for the same reason. They are unable to govern themselves.

No, Saddam was in power because he, like many other dictators has been propped up by other nations, primarily the US who saw him as a willing ally to work their revenge on Iran. Do the people of Iraq deserve the current mess? No, they don't. They didn't break the country and they deserved after being invaded against their will more of an effort to secure the country.

2) Occupation and rebuilding is expensive. Wouldn't recommend it again. And it isn't even the rebuilding. So much of what is going on with private contractors and the Army Engineers is building for the FIRST time.

Iraq actually had a pretty good infrastructure supplying its population with clean water, electricity, and telecommunications. All that got destroyed during the war and hasn't been rebuild (Baghad still only gets a few hours of electricity per day and clean water is still an illusion). The contractors are squandering public funds and enriching themselves while Iraqis are less than happy that pre-war levels of basic services have not been restored more than 3 years later.

3) Education, education, education. Get those people (of all ages) secular education. Even if it is basic job training. Give them something more and wipe out the brainwashing.

If only the contractors would build the schools more quickly...

4) When fighting a war you need to subdue the population AND the government. Think Japan...Get your biggest weapon, shoot it at them, ask, "Are you willing to play by our rules?" No? Shoot it again, ask again, repeat until they comply.

I assume you have never seen the destruction wrought by a bomb, let alone a major bomb. I haven't either, luckily, but coming from Germany I have seen what it does to cities and to people even 60 years later. I have also seen enough pictures from Hiroshima and Nagasaki to know that the "bomb them into submission"-approach is highly inhumane because it assumes that you can destroy cities, generations, and the like just for you own profit. I'm sure the inhabitants of Hiroshima and Nagasaki would agree if they could.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

4) When fighting a war you need to subdue the population AND the government. Think Japan...Get your biggest weapon, shoot it at them, ask, "Are you willing to play by our rules?" No? Shoot it again, ask again, repeat until they comply.

When ruling as a dictator, you need to subdue the population. Think the Kurds...Get your biggest weapon, shoot it at them, ask, :"Are you willing to play by my rules?" No? Shoot it again, ask again, repeat until they comply or cease to exist.

Remind me again: What makes George W Bush different from Saddam Hussein? Oh that's right: George W Bush is playing dictator on a global scale.

[Marc and Olga 0]

4) When fighting a war you need to subdue the population AND the government. Think Japan...Get your biggest weapon, shoot it at them, ask, "Are you willing to play by our rules?" No? Shoot it again, ask again, repeat until they comply.

When ruling as a dictator, you need to subdue the population. Think the Kurds...Get your biggest weapon, shoot it at them, ask, :"Are you willing to play by my rules?" No? Shoot it again, ask again, repeat until they comply or cease to exist.

Remind me again: What makes George W Bush different from Saddam Hussein? Oh that's right: George W Bush is playing dictator on a global scale.

I wouldn't call it a global scale, his interests lay mostly in the middle east. (oil?)

[jjjimmy 0]

hey did somebody call me a liberal and a pessimest in this thread GEE THANKS

[mmmbop1976 1]

you make the assumption that the iraqi people want your lifestyle.They dont!!!! They hated sadam and they hate us too.The people of this region want theocracy its what there beliefs demand and throughout history theocracys are evil.Even in europe when a state is lead by religion it is always ready to take on evil,and by the way to radical islam we are evil.The bottom line is the taliban and osama were free to do as they pleased i dont think that is good for the usa.The people of this region have proven to me time and again that whan free to do as they please they choose any side that is against the usa.i understand your feelings about freedom and would fight and die to preserve your right to your opinion but i am not willing to die to give this right to someone who would use thier freedom to attack ours.

been meaning to answer this....

voter turnout in iraq and afghanistan was much higher than the voter turnout in this country has been for a long time....and they didn't vote for a theocracy, nuff said, your point is hereby debunked. freedom will take hold there, and it will spread

[Marc and Olga 0]

you make the assumption that the iraqi people want your lifestyle.They dont!!!! They hated sadam and they hate us too.The people of this region want theocracy its what there beliefs demand and throughout history theocracys are evil.Even in europe when a state is lead by religion it is always ready to take on evil,and by the way to radical islam we are evil.The bottom line is the taliban and osama were free to do as they pleased i dont think that is good for the usa.The people of this region have proven to me time and again that whan free to do as they please they choose any side that is against the usa.i understand your feelings about freedom and would fight and die to preserve your right to your opinion but i am not willing to die to give this right to someone who would use thier freedom to attack ours.

been meaning to answer this....

voter turnout in iraq and afghanistan was much higher than the voter turnout in this country has been for a long time....and they didn't vote for a theocracy, nuff said, your point is hereby debunked. freedom will take hold there, and it will spread

They (the elected Iraqi government) has asked us to leave but we have not and it seems have no intentions of honoring said request. Your debunking has been rebunked!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

voter turnout in iraq and afghanistan was much higher than the voter turnout in this country has been for a long time....and they didn't vote for a theocracy, nuff said, your point is hereby debunked. freedom will take hold there, and it will spread

Of course... different peoples have different ideas about what constitutes freedom.

Seem to remember some Iraqis suggesting that their lot was preferable under Saddam because at least they wouldn't be indiscriminately blown up at a market, and they could count on reliable running water and electricity.

Similarly, after 14 years of civil war between rival warlords, Somalians are apparently ready to capitulate to government by a Taliban-style religious milita. Free? - no but at least there is a semblance of order, even if it is repressive and brutal.