Have You No Shame, Mr. President?

[mmmbop1976 1]

because the iraqi people were freed from a brutal dictator, i call it brilliant.

Even if that was a secondary consideration?

Seem to remember reading not so long ago that some populated areas of Iraq were still without basic utilities.

i would rather live free without basic utilities than oppressed with them. would you rather live under a dictator just to have basic utilities? having said that, the rebuilding of infrastructure continues in iraq and is improving. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is one big reason.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

saddam thumbing his nose at the u.n. for years, the refusing u.n. inspectors into his suspected wmd facilities, all of these events led to the political climate that made his ouster possible.

No, only Bush pulling a Saddam on the UN made it possible, my friend. Bush thumbed his nose at the UN, kicked the inspectors out of Iraq before they could complete their mission and went in w/o any mandate whatsoever. You might consider that brilliant, I call it a ** up!

Edited September 5, 2006 by ET-US2004

[mmmbop1976 1]

but without those, it's not just a word, it is a hope and dream of oppressed and free people the world over.

That sounds somewhat like a slogan - sounds nice, but doesn't mean a whole lot in a practical sense.

wow, you really sound like a pessimist. or maybe because you've never seen oppression in action you take your freedom for granted. i know i'm making an assumption because i don't know your history. but i have seen oppression in action and and i've seen the hope and dream of freedom of the oppressed, and it did mean a whole lot in a practical sense. tianemen square comes to mind, and although it wasn't successful at that time, the dream lives on there. the peoples revolution that toppled marcos in the philippines comes to mind, and many more. the hope and dream of freedom does mean a whole lot in a practical sense. it was the impetus for tianemen square, it was the impetus for the peoples revolution in the philippines. i just can't imagine a person seeing oppression in action would be so pessimistic in about freedom.

but without those, it's not just a word, it is a hope and dream of oppressed and free people the world over.

That sounds somewhat like a slogan - sounds nice, but doesn't mean a whole lot in a practical sense.

wow, you really sound like a pessimist. or maybe because you've never seen oppression in action you take your freedom for granted. i know i'm making an assumption because i don't know your history. but i have seen oppression in action and and i've seen the hope and dream of freedom of the oppressed, and it did mean a whole lot in a practical sense. tianemen square comes to mind, and although it wasn't successful at that time, the dream lives on there. the peoples revolution that toppled marcos in the philippines comes to mind, and many more. the hope and dream of freedom does mean a whole lot in a practical sense. it was the impetus for tianemen square, it was the impetus for the peoples revolution in the philippines. i just can't imagine a person seeing oppression in action would be so pessimistic in about freedom.

[Henia 11]

[type2negative 0]

saddam thumbing his nose at the u.n. for years, the refusing u.n. inspectors into his suspected wmd facilities, all of these events led to the political climate that made his ouster possible.

No, only Bush pulling a Saddam on the UN made it possible, my friend. Bush thumbed his nose at the UN, kicked the inspectors out of Iraq before they could complete their mission and went in w/o any mandate whatsoever. You might consider that brilliant, I call it a ** up!

Wow.....

You have opened my eyes..

Gosh. I was wrong... I was really wrong all along.......

My God.....

Thanks man. You made me....... different.

[Henia 11]

saddam thumbing his nose at the u.n. for years, the refusing u.n. inspectors into his suspected wmd facilities, all of these events led to the political climate that made his ouster possible.

No, only Bush pulling a Saddam on the UN made it possible, my friend. Bush thumbed his nose at the UN, kicked the inspectors out of Iraq before they could complete their mission and went in w/o any mandate whatsoever. You might consider that brilliant, I call it a ** up!

Wow.....

You have opened my eyes..

Gosh. I was wrong... I was really wrong all along.......

My God.....

Thanks man. You made me....... different.

o snaps No doubt

[type2negative 0]

Henia.Wrong thread.............Funny pictures are somewhere there...

[Henia 11]

Not wrong post, is my opinion so I am expressing it .... in a funny manner...

[type2negative 0]

Not wrong post, is my opinion so I am expressing it .... in a funny manner...

Not Funny but rather obscene... Heh.. Allah will forgive you my child..

[Heracles 417]

WOW... Like minded people must be really proud of your efforts.. Do these clowns have a course I can join so I can learn how to be so witty, innovate and 'intelligent'? and comedic of course..

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

wow, you really sound like a pessimist. or maybe because you've never seen oppression in action you take your freedom for granted. i know i'm making an assumption because i don't know your history. but i have seen oppression in action and and i've seen the hope and dream of freedom of the oppressed, and it did mean a whole lot in a practical sense. tianemen square comes to mind, and although it wasn't successful at that time, the dream lives on there. the peoples revolution that toppled marcos in the philippines comes to mind, and many more. the hope and dream of freedom does mean a whole lot in a practical sense. it was the impetus for tianemen square, it was the impetus for the peoples revolution in the philippines. i just can't imagine a person seeing oppression in action would be so pessimistic in about freedom.

Everyone takes freedom for granted in the US and western Europe, which is its own problem when we are talking about potential constitutional conflicts brought about by the likes of the Patriot Act and all that garbage.

I get what you're saying "yay freedom". Sounds great, like most abstract concepts. It will take years, if not decades for the likes of Iraq and Afghanistan to achieve anything like lasting stability. And now we're talking about going into Iran to liberate those poor people

Do you think the Iranians will be jumping up and down for joy if we invade their country? I doubt it - because their concept of freedom (one of not being interfered with by the US) differs significantly from ours.

Take a look at Somalia - 14 years of civil war and tribal genocide. Now the emerging government is... guess what? A taliban style religious theocracy! Do you suppose the Somalians consider themselves any more or less free? Or perhaps they are simply happy merely to have someone actually taking charge of the country?

Edited September 5, 2006 by erekose

[Henia 11]

WOW... Like minded people must be really proud of your efforts.. Do these clowns have a course I can join so I can learn how to be so witty, innovate and 'intelligent'? and comedic of course..

O snaps better to be funny then get hot headed in a forum

[type2negative 0]

WOW... Like minded people must be really proud of your efforts.. Do these clowns have a course I can join so I can learn how to be so witty, innovate and 'intelligent'? and comedic of course..

O snaps better to be funny then get hot headed in a forum

Why aren't you funny?!?

[Joel Halfwassen 0]

One thing I have learned through the events since 9-11 and the Iraq war is that people deserve the government(s) they get. Personally I think Bush has done a great job in this county and I approve of his actions in Iraq. However...I think there is a leason to be learned from the rebuilding of Iraq that needs to be taken vary seriously.

1) Saddam was in power because people let him be in power. It was in the US interest to take him out, but we really should not have been surprised that there is such a breakdown in the country since his party fell. These are people who let themselves be in the situation they were in. They are in their situation now for the same reason. They are unable to govern themselves.

2) Occupation and rebuilding is expensive. Wouldn't recommend it again. And it isn't even the rebuilding. So much of what is going on with private contractors and the Army Engineers is building for the FIRST time.

3) Education, education, education. Get those people (of all ages) secular education. Even if it is basic job training. Give them something more and wipe out the brainwashing.

4) When fighting a war you need to subdue the population AND the government. Think Japan...Get your biggest weapon, shoot it at them, ask, "Are you willing to play by our rules?" No? Shoot it again, ask again, repeat until they comply.

Joel

[Henia 11]

One thing I have learned through the events since 9-11 and the Iraq war is that people deserve the government(s) they get. Personally I think Bush has done a great job in this county and I approve of his actions in Iraq. However...I think there is a leason to be learned from the rebuilding of Iraq that needs to be taken vary seriously.

1) Saddam was in power because people let him be in power. It was in the US interest to take him out, but we really should not have been surprised that there is such a breakdown in the country since his party fell. These are people who let themselves be in the situation they were in. They are in their situation now for the same reason. They are unable to govern themselves.

2) Occupation and rebuilding is expensive. Wouldn't recommend it again. And it isn't even the rebuilding. So much of what is going on with private contractors and the Army Engineers is building for the FIRST time.

3) Education, education, education. Get those people (of all ages) secular education. Even if it is basic job training. Give them something more and wipe out the brainwashing.

4) When fighting a war you need to subdue the population AND the government. Think Japan...Get your biggest weapon, shoot it at them, ask, "Are you willing to play by our rules?" No? Shoot it again, ask again, repeat until they comply.

Joel

I agree with 1-4 Joel...you are right..but still I donnot think Bush is doing a good job.. we have $3 gallon gas prices, jobs are few and far and seems he worries more on holy wars then his own people..and has anyone ever noticed when something important happens he is always on "holiday" or on "trip"? Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that?