Don't go blaming guns

[james&olya 1,121]

OK, they're different things. Fine. Yet that fact serves no purpose to the rest of the thread.

Actually Ron, it did serve a purpose. When they begin having difficulty with holding up their argument on the subject at hand they find a distraction, change the subject! I accept it as a tacit admission on their part that they admit their argument is weak!

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

Why would I need to be aware of that? That's not what happened.

well while everyone is up in arms about how many rounds were in that pistol, there are other firearms out there that can discharge a greater volume (in this case almost 9 times as much). and in many cases, this firearm can unload at least 45 of those projectiles without reloading.

[james&olya 1,121]

What I take away from the gun-nuts arguments here is that they think it a good thing to have the ability to quickly and easily 'neutralize a threat' (kill somebody) whenever a need might arise. I know that most people will handle this power responsibly. But what bothers me is that I know there are more than a few people with very poor judgment out there, many with mental illness or substance abuse issues. I don't like the thought of them all having the ability to quickly take the lives of my family or myself for whatever deranged reason they may have. But there are already so many guns out there that gun control would never work now, that horse has left the barn! I don't see any good solution forthcoming. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try in whatever limited ways we can to try and lessen the danger.

[natty bumppo 297]

What I take away from the gun-nuts arguments here is that they think it a good thing to have the ability to quickly and easily 'neutralize a threat' (kill somebody) whenever a need might arise. I know that most people will handle this power responsibly. But what bothers me is that I know there are more than a few people with very poor judgment out there, many with mental illness or substance abuse issues. I don't like the thought of them all having the ability to quickly take the lives of my family or myself for whatever deranged reason they may have. But there are already so many guns out there that gun control would never work now, that horse has left the barn! I don't see any good solution forthcoming. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try in whatever limited ways we can to try and lessen the danger.

stay home ... lock the doors & windows ... close the curtains and drapes ... hide under the bed ...

the world is a dangerous place and there are lots of things out there that can cause harm.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

well while everyone is up in arms about how many rounds were in that pistol, there are other firearms out there that can discharge a greater volume (in this case almost 9 times as much). and in many cases, this firearm can unload at least 45 of those projectiles without reloading.

So what?

[slim 1,525]

the gunman had a device that enabled him to shoot more bullets from his gun than would ordinarily be possible.

So if you made that device to shoot less bullets would this event not have happened?

are you aware that you can purchase a firearm that shoots 9 .32 caliber projectiles at once, with just one pull of the trigger? that's 9 projectiles just marginally smaller than the 9mm used in the story!

Uh oh. Be careful, charles! You're going to start scaring people with your "more lethal" weaponry.

Why would I need to be aware of that? That's not what happened.

Because there are a lot more of those in this country than there are the piddly little handguns used in this incident. You were arguing numbers, weren't you?

well while everyone is up in arms about how many rounds were in that pistol, there are other firearms out there that can discharge a greater volume (in this case almost 9 times as much). and in many cases, this firearm can unload at least 45 of those projectiles without reloading.

My perfectly legal to own version of this firearm can discharge 63 projectiles in less than 3 seconds. - And I have several of them.

What I take away from the gun-nuts arguments here is that they think it a good thing to have the ability to quickly and easily 'neutralize a threat' (kill somebody) whenever a need might arise.

You don't think that's a good thing?

I know that most people will handle this power responsibly. But what bothers me is that I know there are more than a few people with very poor judgment out there, many with mental illness or substance abuse issues. I don't like the thought of them all having the ability to quickly take the lives of my family or myself for whatever deranged reason they may have.

How do they have the ability to do that?

there are already so many guns out there that gun control would never work now, that horse has left the barn! I don't see any good solution forthcoming. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try in whatever limited ways we can to try and lessen the danger.

How does passing laws lessen danger?

[james&olya 1,121]

How do they have the ability to do that?

Slim, I know you pride yourself on how ready you are to defend yourself. But in real everyday life it is not always so simple. Unless you have eyes in the back of your head and always have them open you could also be shot point blank like the congresswoman was! Even the president with a huge force of secret service trying to protect him can still get shot! (I know this pisses off Paul)

What is more, if you are so ready to draw down on someone, can you be sure that if some punk tosses a firecracker, someone screams and you turn and see some poor kid with a toy gun you might not do the unthinkable before you could completely analyze the situation? My guess is that of course you wouldn't, but that you would also be caught off-guard in that brief instant of time when you suddenly are in real danger. Yes, I know that there are real-life situations where having a gun could allow you to be a hero, but those are extremely rare. If it were possible (and we all realize it is not) to make our society gun-free we would all be much safer.

[slim 1,525]

If it were possible (and we all realize it is not) to make our society gun-free we would all be much safer.

How much safer?

Because, crunching the numbers, we'd be a lot safer if we eliminated things like cars, stairs and fast food.

[james&olya 1,121]

How much safer?

Because, crunching the numbers, we'd be a lot safer if we eliminated things like cars, stairs and fast food.

True, but cars, stairs, and fast food have many other benefits when used for their intended purpose. Guns have the primary benefit in providing safety to the holder but overall they lessen safety by their existence.

[slim 1,525]

True, but cars, stairs, and fast food have many other benefits when used for their intended purpose. Guns have the primary benefit in providing safety to the holder but overall they lessen safety by their existence.

Not true at all. A gun is no more unsafe than a car. Keep in mind - guns have safeties!

[james&olya 1,121]

Not true at all. A gun is no more unsafe than a car. Keep in mind - guns have safeties!

You must be fixated on that talking point. If you weren't, you might have noticed that I never argued with you which was safer. The point was that guns are unsafe for society as a whole when used as designed and that is ironic since the principal rationale for having one is to provide safety for its owner. Cars and stairs have tremendous benefit to society when used for their intended purpose. Trying to argue their relative safety is pointless.

[slim 1,525]

You must be fixated on that talking point. If you weren't, you might have noticed that I never argued with you which was safer. The point was that guns are unsafe for society as a whole when used as designed and that is ironic since the principal rationale for having one is to provide safety for its owner. Cars and stairs have tremendous benefit to society when used for their intended purpose. Trying to argue their relative safety is pointless.

So was it designed for safety or was it designed to be unsafe? It can't be both.

Guns weren't designed to make robbery, rape and murder easier. When people misuse them it's ironic that we don't blame the people for doing so, we blame the object. We really don't do that with any other inanimate object in our society. We don't blame cars for drunk drivers. We don't blame pencils for misspelled words. Yet, when someone gets shot, it's the gun's fault. Why?

[sara..... 371]

What I take away from the gun-nuts arguments here is that they think it a good thing to have the ability to quickly and easily 'neutralize a threat' (kill somebody) whenever a need might arise. I know that most people will handle this power responsibly. But what bothers me is that I know there are more than a few people with very poor judgment out there, many with mental illness or substance abuse issues. I don't like the thought of them all having the ability to quickly take the lives of my family or myself for whatever deranged reason they may have. But there are already so many guns out there that gun control would never work now, that horse has left the barn! I don't see any good solution forthcoming. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try in whatever limited ways we can to try and lessen the danger.

these same people with mental illness, drug habits, alcohol usage could take out your family with a car, or motorcycle if you stop and think about it anything that we use in the usa can be used as something to kill someone with if the person has mental,drug or alcohol problems... getting rid of guns will not stop someone that is determined to kill some one from killing them and that is the real tragedy

just my opinion

sara

[one...two...tree 2,762]

these same people with mental illness, drug habits, alcohol usage could take out your family with a car, or motorcycle if you stop and think about it anything that we use in the usa can be used as something to kill someone with if the person has mental,drug or alcohol problems... getting rid of guns will not stop someone that is determined to kill some one from killing them and that is the real tragedy

just my opinion

sara

Take out someone's whole family with a motorcycle? It takes minimal effort to aim towards a crowd and shoot indiscriminantly. Many stores have cement barricades to prevent someone from ramming their car through. There's no sure fire way of preventing someone from inflicting harm on others if that is their intent, but make it more difficult to do and minimize the potential lethality through reasonable gun laws, such as background checks, waiting periods, limited number of rounds in a magazine.

Edited January 13, 2011 by 8TBVBN

[^_^ 5,021]

Take out someone's whole family with a motorcycle?

Sure. Or, you know, lawn furniture.

If we can guns, the bad guys will just kill us by bashing us to death with lawn chairs.