When is it right to avail oneself of the 2nd amendment?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

No, actually, I'm rooting for the voices in your head to get louder and shriller. Entertainment is always good!

[Ban Hammer 13,429]

Real gun owners never post their equipment lists. Bad form.

real gun owners have so many they can't remember all of them

[Captain Oates 911]

I think this sums up nicely how this thread ended up. Bunch of young cowards taking turns while the good people watch from the sidelines and say nothing.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I think this sums up nicely how this thread ended up. Bunch of young cowards taking turns while the good people watch from the sidelines and say nothing.

Sounds like more baiting to me.

[natty bumppo 297]

I think this sums up nicely how this thread ended up. Bunch of young cowards taking turns while the good people watch from the sidelines and say nothing.

given the quantity of posts you have in this thread .... it's easy to notice which could be you ...

[Captain Oates 911]

given the quantity of posts you have in this thread .... it's easy to notice which could be you ...

I have been a member of VJ for some years and enjoy the rough and tumble of debate. There are many people on here who disagree with me vigorously and that's just fine and dandy by me. I don't mind being in a minority wanting mild reform in a gun thread inhabited by 'Hell no' people.

What I object to is:

People googling 'crazy old man', clicking 'image ' and then posting it with 'ha-ha this is you' - I mean what kind of reasoned debate is that ?

Then I get allegations I am a drunk (I hardly drink)

Then they post I am mentally ill (make your own mind up)

Then they start saying 'are you off your meds again'

Then I am invited to put my 9mm in the my mouth and blow my head off

Are there any VJ members who think this is how they want their forums to run ?

If not then they need to chip in and say so

I don't need your support or endorsement because I can fight my own corner as you have noticed and you probably strongly disagree with me anyway on all my points, but I do need some relief from dirty play of this kind. The people who do it never post more than a couple of lines because they don't have any thoughts or debating points to put forward

[james&olya 1,121]

I have been a member of VJ for some years and enjoy the rough and tumble of debate. There are many people on here who disagree with me vigorously and that's just fine and dandy by me. I don't mind being in a minority wanting mild reform in a gun thread inhabited by 'Hell no' people.

What I object to is:

People googling 'crazy old man', clicking 'image ' and then posting it with 'ha-ha this is you' - I mean what kind of reasoned debate is that ?

Then I get allegations I am a drunk (I hardly drink)

Then they post I am mentally ill (make your own mind up)

Then they start saying 'are you off your meds again'

Then I am invited to put my 9mm in the my mouth and blow my head off

Are there any VJ members who think this is how they want their forums to run ?

If not then they need to chip in and say so

I don't need your support or endorsement because I can fight my own corner as you have noticed and you probably strongly disagree with me anyway on all my points, but I do need some relief from dirty play of this kind. The people who do it never post more than a couple of lines because they don't have any thoughts or debating points to put forward

Ad hominem attacks are the refuge of those that don't have a coherent argument. It only encourages them when you respond. They are like the schoolyard bullies who taunt the new kid and enjoy nothing more than getting a reaction. Immature, childish, ugly, etc. Better to ignore them. They may not go away but at least you deprive them the satisfaction of seeing they can irritate you! Please remember, they are a minority on here and in the USA. They make a lot of noise but don't mistake that for any kind of majority consensus!

[natty bumppo 297]

I have been a member of VJ for some years and enjoy the rough and tumble of debate. There are many people on here who disagree with me vigorously and that's just fine and dandy by me. I don't mind being in a minority wanting mild reform in a gun thread inhabited by 'Hell no' people.

I don't need your support or endorsement because I can fight my own corner as you have noticed and you probably strongly disagree with me anyway on all my points, but I do need some relief from dirty play of this kind. The people who do it never post more than a couple of lines because they don't have any thoughts or debating points to put forward

congratulations of being a member of vj for a number of years

i wasn't offering support/ endorsement or the opposite with my comment. though now i'm curious why you'd fight your own corner? isn't that considered fighting with yourself / team

whether i agree or disagree with your posted points wasn't the intent of my post in regards to your tube insert.

[Ban Hammer 13,429]

You are right - this American is going to cuddle up with his American wife and put these people out of my brain.

the one they want me too shoot with a 9mm

jeez people !

10-10

where was this posted?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

where was this posted?

It's just the ramblings of a drunk old man off his meds again trying to chase the squirrels off the porch.

[Marilyn. 340]

where was this posted?

I think Gary posted something like that.. it is a few pages back

[Ban Hammer 13,429]

It's just the ramblings of a drunk old man off his meds again trying to chase the squirrels off the porch.

[B_J 2,752]

To answer the question, where did Gary say for Alan to shoot himself with a 9mm.... here it is:

After another round of America bashing by Alan, this is how the conversation went.

Like I said - disdain. He has nothing but disdain for this country and contempt for its people.

I sometimes do not understand how people live if they really have this attitude. I would just put the Glock in my mouth and end it. How does anyone get such a horrible view of this country? Maybe drinking with the wrong people in Atlanta at 3 am?

I have to say, you lose points for trying to say that Gary said to kill yourself; especially when he came back a few posts later and clarified what he meant.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

well I will say this and then I am done with this thread.

Alan, your idea is wacked. It will never work here as it is unconstituional in so many ways I cannnot count. we can start with the 2nd amendment and go from there. Prior restraint is another. Can't do it. Depriving people of property without due process is another.

when criminals are arrested we have to follow very narrow procedures to prosecute them. If they are not read their rights, the go free. If certain evidence is thrown out, they go free. Liberals tell us that it is better to release a guilty man than to imprison an innocent one. I agree. But then we have this. Deny rights because a neighbor says something bad about you? That's just crazy. Would it save any lives, even A life? I doubt it. It assumes that the criminal, such as in this case, would be deterred if he couldn't legally buy a gun and would not buy one illegally. It is kind of silly to think a guy willing to KILL as many people as possible at a public gathering would somehow fall into line because he would be checked out to buy a gun. He likely would never even seek to buy one legaly and just go the illegal route.

That said, where do the resources come from for this and who pays for it? We sell millions of guns in this country every year. You want the police to investigate the neighbors and work contacts or school contacts of each one? who should pay for that? The gun owner who may have his rights denied because of rumors? Society, who stands to "benefit" from this? Who? It is just nuts. This system is completelt SO-VEE-YET in its premise. Police secretly talking to your neighbors and friends and co-workers. WOW! Maybe a reward for "turning in" some bad person? Joe Stalin would be so proud!

This from a liberal! Liberals will oppose a 15 year old girl being required to get parent permission for an abortion! Even though a 15 year old may be getting RAPED...no questions asked because it is her RIGHT to get an abortion. They can find THIS right in the constitution but think the police should sneal around behind your back if you want to own a gun? Just nuts!

What about the children? Well, I will say this, just as I said about illegal wiretaps. I have four children that mean the world to me. I would rather that they take the risk of being killed in an attack like 9/11 than live in a country that taps their phones or reads their email. I will say the same about this law. I would rather take the chance my children will be killed by a pyscho than have them investigated every time they want to buy a gun. It is about freedom. If this country could ever do that, then it is not a free country anymore. That is my opinion about MY children. we take risks with our children's lives every day. We risk them being killed in a car accident to go skiing. we risk them being killed skiing by going skiing. We risk them drowning to go swimming and we risk them being killed in a plane crash to take them flying. Take a look at my "photos" and see some of the risks I take with their lives to have a good life...a free life. To enrich their life. So I think I can say that honestly.

Anyway, this thread has run its course. I need not argue with someone over what is our right. It cannnot be taken away, it will not be taken away and has been strengthened many-fold in the past few years. This nut in Arizona causes a stir and that is all. In the end nothing will change because in the end, thinking minds make rational decisions and know that silly gun controls do not increase safety for anyone.