When is it right to avail oneself of the 2nd amendment?

[^_^ 5,021]

The Police come to your house - talk to you and your parents separately talk to the neighbours

That's how they vet you in this country for security clearances. Many corporations do it too, before hiring an employee who will be directly handing money.

But see, there is no constitutional right to have a security clearance or work for ADP handling cash.

There is, however, a constitutional right to bear arms.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Quebec is a dump, that's why.

Drug traffickers go where the customers are found in large concentrations. Urban areas. Vermont has very few of those.

Why do you say Quebec is a dump? Montreal is a really nice city. The rest of the Province is mostly tundra, but that does not a dump make They produce a lot of electricity mostly by stealing land from the natives, flodding it with dams and making hydro power which they sell to us cheap in Vermont Then they come here for medical care and support a huge medical complex we could otherwise never have. I like Quebecois!

And in recent news, Vermont was one of the top three states for admissions for treatment of oxycodone treatment. Not good news, but it could be we are getting more people treated. Vermont is hardly a golden palace of rich people, but it is not a bad place either. And despite the drug use and drug trafficking and anyone carrying a gun we still have no crime.

But we know why, right? No jamaicans.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I did not know this. I will keep the information handy in case I ever have to start a second job as a Jamaican drug mule. Getting dreads was always the easy part, blackface is unsophisticated but technically doable... you just filled in what was missing from the picture. Thank you, and don't worry - I won't ask how you know.

There are lots of white guys with dreadlocks here. You would totally blend in.

[^_^ 5,021]

Why do you say Quebec is a dump? Montreal is a really nice city.

Montreal isn't that nice. I like Toronto a lot more.

There are lots of white guys with dreadlocks here. You would totally blend in.

So instead of blackface I need to do whiteface? Oy!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You do it UK style (That's poisoned it before we start yes - ferriners are auto wrong ?)

The Police come to your house - talk to you and your parents separately talk to the neighbours

If you are a drunken cannabis smoking street fighter, they find out and say no to your permit

Easy - it would have prevented Arizona

I can hear all the 'I hate and distrust my government' people saying no

Perhaps thats the difference - They trust the Police and Courts and government much more in the UK

I'll take mmy chances with drug addicted crazies. Not gonna happen here...ever. Put a pin in that one. I'll not have my rights subject to rumors from my neighbors. Is your head cracked open?

The guy in Arizona HAD run ins with the law. They will come to light soon and you will see that IF the law (that great sheriff you like) had done their job, this guy would not have been able to buy a gun legally under the laws we already have.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Montreal isn't that nice. I like Toronto a lot more.

So instead of blackface I need to do whiteface? Oy!

We go up to Montreal for all sorts of stuff...ice skating for one. Dinner, theatre, concerts, Canadian Ballet (just kidding) Great city. We live in what is basically a south suburb of Montreal.

Vermont is home to all the old hippies, nappy haired white guys wearing birkenstocks and lesbians. Lesbians outnumber Gay men by like 4 to 1. We went to a place called "higher Ground" one night where they have various concerts, dancing, etc. One of the showrooms had a "First Friday" ladies night with wmen comediennes so we went in there. It took me a few minutes to catch on but the packed ballroom was ALL women. ALL. I was the only guy. Strange. OH HOLY #######! Alla was exceedingly popular! Me...not so much. Alla runs into them by the boatload at her private (Catholic) university She says they say they are "LUGS" Lesbians until graduation. Smoking pot is pretty much accepted but cigarettes are frowned on.

You gotta love Vermont. Have another bowl of Ben and Jerry's!

Edited January 16, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

With only 65.8 people per square mile (as of 2000), I'd argue there are virtually no people in Vermont at all. Perhaps that would explain the low rates of... everything.

Quebec has 11 people per square mile. 1/7th the density of Vermont. Murder rate is 1.6 per 100,0000. Double Vermont's rate. Our rate has gone down in the last few years. Quebec's has gone up.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Captain Oates 911]

I'll take mmy chances with drug addicted crazies. Not gonna happen here...ever. Put a pin in that one. I'll not have my rights subject to rumors from my neighbors. Is your head cracked open?

The guy in Arizona HAD run ins with the law. They will come to light soon and you will see that IF the law (that great sheriff you like) had done their job, this guy would not have been able to buy a gun legally under the laws we already have.

You will be glad to know my head is not cracked open..

I refused Alla's invite to put a 9mm in my mouth and pull the trigger. Suggestions that other VJ members commit suicide don't seem to be in the TOS so I can't complain (chuckle). We had a walk in the park and a coffee instead.

I am afraid she is still a bit so-vee-ette and stalingrad style and hasn't got the hang of free world debate yet

The European system does work and I was happy to be subject to it. There are very rare refusals and the local court can adjudicate an appeal very quickly. A nine year old American would be alive today if we had been using that system but that isn't sufficient incentive to change - I know that.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You will be glad to know my head is not cracked open..

I refused Alla's invite to put a 9mm in my mouth and pull the trigger. Suggestions that other VJ members commit suicide don't seem to be in the TOS so I can't complain (chuckle). We had a walk in the park and a coffee instead.

I am afraid she is still a bit so-vee-ette and stalingrad style and hasn't got the hang of free world debate yet

The European system does work and I was happy to be subject to it. There are very rare refusals and the local court can adjudicate an appeal very quickly. A nine year old American would be alive today if we had been using that system but that isn't sufficient incentive to change - I know that.

A nine year od would be alive if we enforced the laws we already have. Your idea stinks, it is unconstitutional and will never happen. Alla did not suggest you commit suicide. I said I would if I felt like you did about where you live. I really do not care if you are so miserable in life.

You still haven;t answered the questions about Mexicans, Jamaicans and what you believe are the reasons that Canada has such a higher crime rate than Vermont despote a virtual ban on handgun ownership and a population density 1/7th of Vermonts/ C'mon, where are the answers? Why are people in your state unable to handle the same freedoms we can?

Edited January 17, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Captain Oates 911]

A nine year od would be alive if we enforced the laws we already have. Your idea stinks, it is unconstitutional and will never happen. Alla did not suggest you commit suicide. I said I would if I felt like you did about where you live. I really do not care if you are so miserable in life.

You still haven;t answered the questions about Mexicans, Jamaicans and what you believe are the reasons that Canada has such a higher crime rate than Vermont despote a virtual ban on handgun ownership and a population density 1/7th of Vermonts/ C'mon, where are the answers? Why are people in your state unable to handle the same freedoms we can?

Getting rid of slavery and allowing drinking were both unconstitutional but times change.

The present laws did not allow the guy to be refused a gun. He had never been convicted of a felony and had not been judged mentally impaired by a court. You would be the first one to complain if he had been refused in those circumstances. He was legal to buy a gun and it wasn't a question of enforcing laws - he had not broken any.

My point is that if 50 thousand Jamaican yardy boys and half the population of inner city Milwaukee and a third of the population of South Central LA moved to Vermont, then the murder rate per 100,000 population would sky rocket. So it isn't your gun laws that are causing you to have low murders - its the make up your population and who they are.

Can you acknowledge that ?

I acknowledge that the difference of 'who the people are' in Milwaukee compared to say North Yorkshire, is ONE of the reasons Yorkshire has a tiny rate in comparison. If I can acknowledge that then I know you can.

I can't speak for Washington State's legislative history. When I came here I wasn't allowed one gun because of the alien firearms laws of which you would no doubt approve ?

The longest I have waited for clearance on buying a new gun is two hours

Never leave Vermont - it's scary out here.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Getting rid of slavery and allowing drinking were both unconstitutional but times change.

The present laws did not allow the guy to be refused a gun. He had never been convicted of a felony and had not been judged mentally impaired by a court. You would be the first one to complain if he had been refused in those circumstances. He was legal to buy a gun and it wasn't a question of enforcing laws - he had not broken any.

My point is that if 50 thousand Jamaican yardy boys and half the population of inner city Milwaukee and a third of the population of South Central LA moved to Vermont, then the murder rate per 100,000 population would sky rocket. So it isn't your gun laws that are causing you to have low murders - its the make up your population and who they are.

Can you acknowledge that ?

I acknowledge that the difference of 'who the people are' in Milwaukee compared to say North Yorkshire, is ONE of the reasons Yorkshire has a tiny rate in comparison. If I can acknowledge that then I know you can.

I can't speak for Washington State's legislative history. When I came here I wasn't allowed one gun because of the alien firearms laws of which you would no doubt approve ?

The longest I have waited for clearance on buying a new gun is two hours

Never leave Vermont - it's scary out here.

The perpetrator in Arizona DID commit crimes and WAS arrested previously for crimes which WOULD have disqualified him from legally owning a gun IF he had been prosecuted and convicted. The local authorities did not do so. This information will come out in detail and your opinion of the sheriff may change.

Gun laws have nothing to do with the population make up of Vermont. If you blame crime on particular races and cultures then gun laws will not fix it.

Seems you can speak for Vermont but not Washington? Strange. You are not allowed to buy a gun until you are a citizen OR permanent resident. Federal law allows legal residents to buy guns. I have no concern with any person legally here having a gun.

As I may have mentioned, I am well aware of the world outside of Vermont. I have lived in many states and 4 countries.

Getting rid of slavery and allowing drinking were both unconstitutional but times change.

The present laws did not allow the guy to be refused a gun. He had never been convicted of a felony and had not been judged mentally impaired by a court. You would be the first one to complain if he had been refused in those circumstances. He was legal to buy a gun and it wasn't a question of enforcing laws - he had not broken any.

My point is that if 50 thousand Jamaican yardy boys and half the population of inner city Milwaukee and a third of the population of South Central LA moved to Vermont, then the murder rate per 100,000 population would sky rocket. So it isn't your gun laws that are causing you to have low murders - its the make up your population and who they are.

Can you acknowledge that ?

I acknowledge that the difference of 'who the people are' in Milwaukee compared to say North Yorkshire, is ONE of the reasons Yorkshire has a tiny rate in comparison. If I can acknowledge that then I know you can.

I can't speak for Washington State's legislative history. When I came here I wasn't allowed one gun because of the alien firearms laws of which you would no doubt approve ?

The longest I have waited for clearance on buying a new gun is two hours

Never leave Vermont - it's scary out here.

I am thrilled to acknowledge that the reason for crime is not guns. I was wondering when you would get around to it. Thanks.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I wouldn't let my panties get too bunched up Gary. Alan has been blowing the froth off a Red Barrel between posts, so I am sure he will detour further and further off topic.

[Captain Oates 911]

The perpetrator in Arizona DID commit crimes and WAS arrested previously for crimes which WOULD have disqualified him from legally owning a gun IF he had been prosecuted and convicted. The local authorities did not do so. This information will come out in detail and your opinion of the sheriff may change.

Gun laws have nothing to do with the population make up of Vermont. If you blame crime on particular races and cultures then gun laws will not fix it.

Seems you can speak for Vermont but not Washington? Strange. You are not allowed to buy a gun until you are a citizen OR permanent resident. Federal law allows legal residents to buy guns. I have no concern with any person legally here having a gun.

As I may have mentioned, I am well aware of the world outside of Vermont. I have lived in many states and 4 countries.

I am thrilled to acknowledge that the reason for crime is not guns. I was wondering when you would get around to it. Thanks.

You seem to be saying that the reason Vermont has low crime is that the criminals are deterred by Vermont's gun laws and either don't go there or go there and behave..

You don't acknowledge that the 'type of people' who live in Vermont have anything to do with it.

If we can't get past that issue then we have to leave it there but I know that you would be in a tiny minority in the country with that view.

When I came to Washington State, aliens, even GC aliens were not allowed guns without an alien firearm's license and those had been frozen and were impossible to obtain

I haven't just got off the banana boat you know. I have had an indefinite business visa for the US since 1983 and I have been resident in Wisconsin and Florida and Washington State. I have spent time working in Atlanta from 1983 on. I got my driver's license in Wisconsin and my motorbike license in Florida - so I do have some familiarity.

I don't care about branding people by race - but if we just say 'communities' then it is apparent to everyone that the rate of gun killings in particular communities in SC LA or Milwaukee are far above those of Vermont without ANY difference in gun laws contributing to that.

Again, you are not acknowledging that, and 99% of Americans would, so you probably think the world is flat and won't acknowledge any different. So if you can't acknowledge that the sea is wet and dogs bark and cats meow then what's the point in me trying to discuss anything ? None.

[Captain Oates 911]

I wouldn't let my panties get too bunched up Gary. Alan has been blowing the froth off a Red Barrel between posts, so I am sure he will detour further and further off topic.

If a red barrel is a coffee - then mine was Nescafe. If you are trying to slur me with being a drinker you can 'go forth and multiply'

Please clarify ?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

If a red barrel is a coffee - then mine was Nescafe. If you are trying to slur me with being a drinker you can 'go forth and multiply'

Please clarify ?

Basically between legitimate points you slag off Americans for the fun of it, either to bait people or because you really hate them and maybe yourself as a result?