When is it right to avail oneself of the 2nd amendment?

[^_^ 5,021]

Vermont sounds like a little upper class golden cage ...

An intellectual superior would go look up census data and not make a statement like that based solely on message board posts.

2008 data from the Census Bureau:

Median household income in Vermont was $52,111, very slightly above the US average of $52,029.

Persons below poverty level in Vermont was 10.4%, slightly better than the US average of 13.2%.

For the state of Washington, median household income was $58,081 and 11.3% of people were below the poverty level.

Upper class golden cage? Not even close.

2. A High School English teacher. Think he cares about other kids?

Empathy is a pretty important skill for a teacher. I suspect he does care.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

An intellectual superior would go look up census data and not make a statement like that based solely on message board posts.

2008 data from the Census Bureau:

Median household income in Vermont was $52,111, very slightly above the US average of $52,029.

Persons below poverty level in Vermont was 10.4%, slightly better than the US average of 13.2%.

For the state of Washington, median household income was $58,081 and 11.3% of people were below the poverty level.

Upper class golden cage? Not even close.

Empathy is a pretty important skill for a teacher. I suspect he does care.

Thanks.

I had planned to let him insert his other foot in his mouth first

[Captain Oates 911]

Explain why we have a low crime rate with no gun controls please. Explain why we are different than anywhere else. Keep it simple and stick to the murder rate. You can explain why we don't need to lock our doors later.

I keep explaining it to you

You live in a State that has a smaller population than Leeds

It is small and safe and rich

It doesn't have Jamaican yardy boys and Mexican drug dealers and huge inner city ghettos etc

To say you don't have murders is the same as saying that no sea lions have been killed in Tibet

It is simply the local conditions and absolutely nothing to do with Vermont's gun laws

If all guns were banned in Vermont today, the murder rate would not go up because there are no murderers

To suggest otherwise is to suggest that only Vermont's gun laws are keeping out and detering all the drug cartels from Texas and Arizona and the inner city populations of Milwaukee from going to Vermont to commit murder

Texas and Arizona are up to their ears in legal guns and they sure aren't short of murders

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

An intellectual superior would go look up census data and not make a statement like that based solely on message board posts.

2008 data from the Census Bureau:

Median household income in Vermont was $52,111, very slightly above the US average of $52,029.

Persons below poverty level in Vermont was 10.4%, slightly better than the US average of 13.2%.

For the state of Washington, median household income was $58,081 and 11.3% of people were below the poverty level.

Upper class golden cage? Not even close.

Empathy is a pretty important skill for a teacher. I suspect he does care.

More than empathy, he has a master's degree. People with a masters degree can pretty much choose what they want to do and most of those careers pay more than being a school teacher (but I admit his job security and retirement look good) He truly, I mean TRULY, enjoys helping others and getting the best from them. I assure you he does not teach that the US is toxic or a gas chamber. He could have had an MBA and just been a business man and make a lot more money.

he has more guns than Alan.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[^_^ 5,021]

He truly, I mean TRULY, enjoys helping others and getting the best from them.

That means he has empathy. Empathy isn't a bad thing, you know.

One can have empathy and have a masters degree and lots of guns.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I keep explaining it to you

You live in a State that has a smaller population than Leeds

It is small and safe and rich

It doesn't have Jamaican yardy boys and Mexican drug dealers and huge inner city ghettos etc

To say you don't have murders is the same as saying that no sea lions have been killed in Tibet

It is simply the local conditions and absolutely nothing to do with Vermont's gun laws

If all guns were banned in Vermont today, the murder rate would not go up because there are no murderers

To suggest otherwise is to suggest that only Vermont's gun laws are keeping out and detering all the drug cartels from Texas and Arizona and the inner city populations of Milwaukee from going to Vermont to commit murder

Texas and Arizona are up to their ears in legal guns and they sure aren't short of murders

First of all, quoting the RATE negates the population. It is "per 100,000" it may be smaller than Leeds but Leeds has the same gun laws as other parts of the country. Vermont is very unique in allowing anyone to carry concealed without a license. Vermont is a border state and has a huge amount of drug trafficking from Canada to the US, but no crime (other than smuggling) and no gunfights with the CBP. Why? Are drug cartels the problem? How are they addressed by a magazine capacity restriction?

Are you saying that murder is CAUSED by Mexicans and Jamaicans? I just want to be clear about this.

How would a magazine capacity restriction affect crime if crime is cause by poverty, Mexicans and Jamaicans. What laws do you propose to control poverty, Mexicans and Jamaicans?

I am, in fact, suggesting that the fact that Vermonters are, or can be, armed is why our crime is so low. We are not a wealthy state, we actually have a large population of foreigners that were relocated here as refugees from Africa and Bosnia. Alla is teaching them English in her practicum for her MA degree in teaching English (OMG! Maybe she cares about other people!)

Please address the murder rate specifically, name the causes of murder and tell us how surrendering our rights will help, then give examples of success in the US.

I mean if the conditions in Vermont are different and therefore the laws of Vermont do not apply to other states, then maybe the conditions of UK are different than the US and maybe their laws would not work here. But I am sure you can explain.

That means he has empathy. Empathy isn't a bad thing, you know.

One can have empathy and have a masters degree and lots of guns.

Oh, OK. Good. I was thinking that Alan said if he had guns or did well in school that he couldn't care about anyone else. I am relieved.

[Captain Oates 911]

More than empathy, he has a master's degree. People with a masters degree can pretty much choose what they want to do and most of those careers pay more than being a school teacher (but I admit his job security and retirement look good) He truly, I mean TRULY, enjoys helping others and getting the best from them. I assure you he does not teach that the US is toxic or a gas chamber. He could have had an MBA and just been a business man and make a lot more money.

he has more guns than Alan.

Mis quoting

My reference to people crawling on top of each other in a gas chamber alludes to this idea that in order to get away from the horror and violence of American inner city life, the comfortable people try to distance themselves from it by crawling upwards in society and live in gated communities or as far away from the ghetto as they can get.

They then try and pay as little in taxes as they can away with while the misfortunate live with few mental health services

It is a comprehension mistake to say I was saying that America is toxic - as long as it was a genuine mistake I have no problem with that. If it was a deliberate tactic to brand me as anti- American and thus win points that way (McCarthy tactics), then I would object

There are posters on here who would do that deliberately but I suspect you are not one of them

There is nothing wrong with hauling yourself up through your own efforts and I did. The error is to then be indifferent to society's problems other than a token gift to charity. I made it from a delivery boy's son to European Finance Director through very hard work so I applaud your kids making it.

However, I remember where I came from in society and I haven't left them behind

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I keep explaining it to you

You live in a State that has a smaller population than Leeds

It is small and safe and rich

It doesn't have Jamaican yardy boys and Mexican drug dealers and huge inner city ghettos etc

To say you don't have murders is the same as saying that no sea lions have been killed in Tibet

It is simply the local conditions and absolutely nothing to do with Vermont's gun laws

If all guns were banned in Vermont today, the murder rate would not go up because there are no murderers

To suggest otherwise is to suggest that only Vermont's gun laws are keeping out and detering all the drug cartels from Texas and Arizona and the inner city populations of Milwaukee from going to Vermont to commit murder

Texas and Arizona are up to their ears in legal guns and they sure aren't short of murders

So if we had more Mexicans in Vermont we would have a higher crime rate...murder rate. Right? Jamaicans? If we had Jamaicans here we would have higher crime. Right? So if you ban high capacity magazines will Mexicans and Jamaicans stay out of Vermont? Any other "causes" we can avoid with a magazine capacity restriction?

[^_^ 5,021]

First of all, quoting the RATE negates the population.

A technical point, but that isn't always true. Sample sizes do matter. For example, it would be unmeaningful to compare the crime rate of the people who reside in my home (2) to the crime rates of Russia - even if I did present them as a rate using the population as a denominator.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Mis quoting

My reference to people crawling on top of each other in a gas chamber alludes to this idea that in order to get away from the horror and violence of American inner city life, the comfortable people try to distance themselves from it by crawling upwards in society and live in gated communities or as far away from the ghetto as they can get.

They then try and pay as little in taxes as they can away with while the misfortunate live with few mental health services

It is a comprehension mistake to say I was saying that America is toxic - as long as it was a genuine mistake I have no problem with that. If it was a deliberate tactic to brand me as anti- American and thus win points that way (McCarthy tactics), then I would object

There are posters on here who would do that deliberately but I suspect you are not one of them

There is nothing wrong with hauling yourself up through your own efforts and I did. The error is to then be indifferent to society's problems other than a token gift to charity. I made it from a delivery boy's son to European Finance Director through very hard work so I applaud your kids making it.

However, I remember where I came from in society and I haven't left them behind

Oh OK, I thought you were saying something bad about America. My mistake. Comprehension problem. I grew up on a ranch in rural west Texas, what do you expect? We can barely read or write there.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

A technical point, but that isn't always true. Sample sizes do matter. For example, it would be unmeaningful to compare the crime rate of the people who reside in my home (2) to the crime rates of Russia - even if I did present them as a rate using the population as a denominator.

So when the sample size is 600,000 +? I did not compare a population of (2). Seems like it is a good enough sample that it IS calculated by the FBI as an independent state, they don't lump us in with New Hampshire, y'know. Also it figures in that US murder rate. It would seem good enough to explain on its own.

And speaking of gun laws, you do not have to be a Vermont resident to carry concealed handguns here. There is no law restricting carrying handguns. If Mexicans come here they can carry guns, so can Jamaicans.

[Captain Oates 911]

So if we had more Mexicans in Vermont we would have a higher crime rate...murder rate. Right? Jamaicans? If we had Jamaicans here we would have higher crime. Right? So if you ban high capacity magazines will Mexicans and Jamaicans stay out of Vermont? Any other "causes" we can avoid with a magazine capacity restriction?

I don't think mag restrictions would help at all.

I have a 17 round mag for my Glock - I can have another 20 by tomorrow. If I shoot fast and hit the mag release so it falls to the floor, I can have another 17 rounds in almost instantly and much faster than someone can come up and hit me with a chair. I don't think a mag restriction would make any difference

My angle is the vetting of people with guns. I think vetting is non existent here and that is a big mistake.

You and I would pass that vetting and get through on a nod. Some violent drug user with mental problems who hadn't had a conviction (eg The arizona shooter) can buy a gun easily

That is a problem. Shooters who don't acknowledge that are selfish and uncaring of the lives of their fellows.

They would rather see bodies all over the place than be inconvenienced by a check of their suitability. That callousness and self centeredness appalls me.

[^_^ 5,021]

My angle is the vetting of people with guns. I think vetting is non existent here and that is a big mistake.

You and I would pass that vetting and get through on a nod. Some violent drug user with mental problems who hadn't had a conviction (eg The arizona shooter) can buy a gun easily

I don't know what your angle is, but I hope every mental case in the country has a gun when the ChiCom invasion force arrives. Maybe you want to soften this country in preparation for the ChiCom invasion force, I don't know. Do they pay you to do this? Did you get a raise when you became an American citizen?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I don't think mag restrictions would help at all.

I have a 17 round mag for my Glock - I can have another 20 by tomorrow. If I shoot fast and hit the mag release so it falls to the floor, I can have another 17 rounds in almost instantly and much faster than someone can come up and hit me with a chair. I don't think a mag restriction would make any difference

My angle is the vetting of people with guns. I think vetting is non existent here and that is a big mistake.

You and I would pass that vetting and get through on a nod. Some violent drug user with mental problems who hadn't had a conviction (eg The arizona shooter) can buy a gun easily

That is a problem. Shooters who don't acknowledge that are selfish and uncaring of the lives of their fellows.

They would rather see bodies all over the place than be inconvenienced by a check of their suitability. That callousness and self centeredness appalls me.

We have the same national background check to buy guns here that exists in all states. That's a federal law. Why is our crime rate lower? And just to be clear, you are saying that you do not advocate the limiting of magazine capacity, right?

If someone is violent and a drug user with mental problems but has no convictions how do you find that out with any background check? Crystal ball?

What does that have to do with Mexicans and Jamaicans. How would Mexicans and Jamaicans affect Vermont's crime rate (I will admit that there are virtually none of either here) but how would more change the crime rate?)

[^_^ 5,021]

I will admit that there are virtually none of either here

With only 65.8 people per square mile (as of 2000), I'd argue there are virtually no people in Vermont at all. Perhaps that would explain the low rates of... everything.