When is it right to avail oneself of the 2nd amendment?

[Captain Oates 911]

.

There are no conditional or second class citizens here

As soon as someone is admitted a citizen, they have a right to express themselves

I am expressing myself on the subjects of gun control and health care

My opinions are actually very mainstream and shared by the US president, a majority of the Senate, a big part of the house of Representatives and a large portion of the American people - and Warren Buffet the nations richest man

Just because you think differently, you should not try and marginalize me and devalue me by saying I am not a natural born American and therefore my inputs are not wanted or legitimate and I should have no say

My opinion and my views and my vote are equal to yours and are just as legitimate.

Adherance to freedom of speech involves hearing contrary views.

[mawilson 2,133]

I posted a comparison of UK/US crime rates here. (Yes, Alan, in 2008. See, I'm stalking myself.)

[Captain Oates 911]

Perhaps rain makes criminals want to assault people instead.

Scotland tops list of world's most violent countries

The study, by the UN’s crime research institute, found that 3 per cent of Scots had been victims of assault compared with 1.2 per cent in America and just 0.1 per cent in Japan, 0.2 per cent in Italy and 0.8 per cent in Austria. In England and Wales the figure was 2.8 per cent.

You must learn to tell the difference between the murder rate and getting a thick ear in a pub on a Saturday night

Please concentrate and address the murder rate

If you can't justify the difference, please don't try and cloud the issue by quoting the amount of litter on the streets of Glasgow

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Adherance to freedom of speech involves hearing contrary views.

John Stuart Mill would agree with you:

"We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavoring to stifle is a false opinion; and if we were sure, stifling it would be an evil still." On Liberty, 1859

Edited January 16, 2011 by Some Old Guy

[Captain Oates 911]

I posted a comparison of UK/US crime rates here. (Yes, Alan, in 2008. See, I'm stalking myself.)

Address the murder rate

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Address the murder rate

The BY I know would have posted a chart.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Some Old Guy

[mawilson 2,133]

Address the murder rate

The murder rate is higher here, I'm not trying to claim otherwise.

But if you're trying to imply that guns are the reason, I'm going to disagree.

After all, Canada has a similar per-capita gun ownership ratio to the US, yet

a much lower murder rate.

[Captain Oates 911]

The murder rate is higher here, I'm not trying to claim otherwise.

But if you're trying to imply that guns are the reason, I'm going to disagree.

After all, Canada has a similar per-capita gun ownership ratio to the US, yet

a much lower murder rate.

I sense a break through of reason ! Careful or the loony right will see you as a traitor.

ok what you say is a fact and is accurate

Why is the gun murder rate higher in the US than...anywhere ?

If it's the lack of mental health services rather than guns - wouldn't the gun lobby be better off pushing for smaller wars and using the money for more mental health facilities ?

I dont think it's that - I think it's cultural, and the sheer selfishness and hatred which is the by-product of extreme right wing politics poisons society into an un-caring mode. We saw the effect of that in England during Thatcher the milk snatcher's reign. She canceled school milk etc and caused civil strife and mass sackings and the effect lasts to this day

The UK has been through this. In 1951, they introduced charges for glasses and teeth in order to pay for the Korean War. Many Ministers resigned including the later Prime Minister Harold Wilson and Nye Bevan and the free health service was re-instated

Fifty Thousand Americans died in that war - same as Vietnam but in a very short time. The chinese threw a tiny part of their forces - 380,000 troops into it.

GUNS guns and more guns and wars and more wars and less and less health services.

How's it working out for us so far ?

and the answer is - when our kids go to college, we need to put a big gun in their purse ?

Is that the best we can do ?

Edited January 16, 2011 by Alan the Red

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

There are no conditional or second class citizens here

As soon as someone is admitted a citizen, they have a right to express themselves

I am expressing myself on the subjects of gun control and health care

My opinions are actually very mainstream and shared by the US president, a majority of the Senate, a big part of the house of Representatives and a large portion of the American people - and Warren Buffet the nations richest man

Just because you think differently, you should not try and marginalize me and devalue me by saying I am not a natural born American and therefore my inputs are not wanted or legitimate and I should have no say

My opinion and my views and my vote are equal to yours and are just as legitimate.

Adherance to freedom of speech involves hearing contrary views.

You are free to speak your mind. It will be ignored in my house. I would never suggest to my children that I CHOSE a bad place for them to live. Aim high...not low.

The murder rate is higher here, I'm not trying to claim otherwise.

But if you're trying to imply that guns are the reason, I'm going to disagree.

After all, Canada has a similar per-capita gun ownership ratio to the US, yet

a much lower murder rate.

Canada's murder rate is much higher than Vermont's and we have a higher percentage of gun ownership. Discuss.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

GUNS guns and more guns and wars and more wars and less and less health services.

How's it working out for us so far ?

and the answer is - when our kids go to college, we need to put a big gun in their purse ?

Is that the best we can do ?

All my kids went to college with guns, (except the one going to school in Moscow) they are doing very well and all have health care insurance. #######? If yours do not...why?

Why is Vermont the safest place with all the guns we have? Why are you guys in other states ruining what we provide for you?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Address the murder rate

Vermont has the lowest murder rate in the western hemisphere. .75 per 100,000. Explain. We allow anyone to caarry a concealed handgun without a license.

[Captain Oates 911]

I sometimes do not understand how people live if they really have this attitude. I would just put the Glock in my mouth and end it. How does anyone get such a horrible view of this country? Maybe drinking with the wrong people in Atlanta at 3 am?

Do you have children Alan? What do you do for their future? You want to help people have a better future, what about YOUR kids? Do you talk like this to them? Tell them they live in a toxic place, in a gas chamber? Are you serious? You would talk to a young person this way? Sick. Twisted. I have promised my kids that there hard effort will be rewarded and so far that is true. it is still a place where hard work and effort are in demand and pay well. It is still a place you can have a good job, own property, raise a family in safety and give them, literally, the world...IF they work for it, if they want it, if they go for it.

One of my greatest joys in life, really, is to be able to offer my kids things they could never have dreamed of in Ukraine. Never. It is so great to be able to do what we can do for these young people and see them light up at the opportunities they have. Just unbelieveable. They walk about 9 feet off the ground at the possibilities they have.

Peddle your poison somewhere else Alan, we do not need it in this house.

Being able to read English is a good skill, but being able to comprehend it fully is an extension of that...

It's a fact that in order to care for your kids future, it is also necessary to care for the future of those who surround them in their daily lives.

If not they will grow up in a dangerous and bitter society so that they have to live in a gated insulated community with a gun by the bed

You seem to think that this is the way to go and to heck with the others. I disagree and I think crawling to the top of the heap with no regard for the rest is basically immoral and you shouldn't peddle that creed in my house either.

Being uncaring about sick people with guns and other people's kid's education is not a caring attitude and I take issue with you on that.

Just coz you got out and landed in this land of milk and honey doesn't mean you should pull up the drawbridge and say 'I'm all right jack' and be cold to the rest

[Captain Oates 911]

Vermont has the lowest murder rate in the western hemisphere. .75 per 100,000. Explain. We allow anyone to caarry a concealed handgun without a license.

You need some more Jamaican yardy boys. Let your kids gun fight it out with them while you monitor the changing statistics.

Vermont sounds like a little upper class golden cage - zero to do with the gun laws there

Edited January 16, 2011 by Alan the Red

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Being able to read English is a good skill, but being able to comprehend it fully is an extension of that...

It's a fact that in order to care for your kids future, it is also necessary to care for the future of those who surround them in their daily lives.

If not they will grow up in a dangerous and bitter society so that they have to live in a gated insulated community with a gun by the bed

You seem to think that this is the way to go and to heck with the others. I disagree and I think crawling to the top of the heap with no regard for the rest is basically immoral and you shouldn't peddle that creed in my house either.

Being uncaring about sick people with guns and other people's kid's education is not a caring attitude and I take issue with you on that.

Just coz you got out and landed in this land of milk and honey doesn't mean you should pull up the drawbridge and say 'I'm all right jack' and be cold to the rest

My kids are

1. The Superintendent of a Park District that won the award for best park district in the US for 2010. Think he cares about other kids?

2. A High School English teacher. Think he cares about other kids?

3. Future scientist that will be seeking real solutions to real problems. Think he cares about other people?

4. A high school student that plays lacrosse, basketball and likes to drive Mom's sports car. He doesn't think about anyone else yet. He is 16, give him time. he is a no-sh*t good skeet shooter.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You need some more Jamaican yardy boys. Let your kids gun fight it out with them while you monitor the changing statistics.

Vermont sounds like a little upper class golden cage - zero to do with the gun laws there

Explain why we have a low crime rate with no gun controls please. Explain why we are different than anywhere else. Keep it simple and stick to the murder rate. You can explain why we don't need to lock our doors later.