When is it right to avail oneself of the 2nd amendment?

[james&olya 1,121]

I am pro-choice. We are all here by choice.

The good news is that our rights are not subject to your opinion.

English is her primary langauge. That is enough to discourage me.

But she struggles even with English!

[Captain Oates 911]

Back on topic - ok

The bottom line is that I think we are surrounded by many millions of people who are not emotionally or intellectually equipped to have guns safely

All shooters agree that certified mental ill people should not have them

Then stretch out a little and say what about some thug who is always fighting and is always drunk and using drugs - but someone who has never had a felony conviction or been certified

The 2nd amendment people say NO - you can't touch his gun - preemptive

That is the dividing line and where I think the gun lobby show their selfishness and their lack of empathy with the general population

How can it be preemptive if there is evidence the person is unfit ? The definition of unfit needs extending from where it is now which is nowhere

We don't need an amendment - just a law like that against machine guns or the mentally ill or felons

The Police here can vet the applicants better (right of appeal) - oh I forgot - we hate our own police and our own own government and we don't trust them.

BUT we do trust that drunken hill billy crack head in that trailer who has just bought a pistol.

Amazing !

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

What do you say I am ready for? I never said anything about the army at my door. Ever. You have to invent things to argue about I never argued. Incredible. You are assuming I have a fantasy and then trying to say it is unreasonable. Wow. I don't have a fantasy. I have a lot of guns. It is my right to do so. I carry a gun with me everywhere. It is my right to do so and I do not need to explain it, defend it or have a fantasy about it. It is my right, just as it is my right to type this, to listen to what I want to say that God is a fairy tale. You don't have to like it or agree with it, it doesn't change the right to do so. If you choose to be unarmed, I have no problem with that.

Amazing that the gun haters are so quickly reduced to babbling and arguing things that don't exist. Just incredible.

Is there some reason you don't get how historical events relate to the present? Is lawlessness in a society irrelevant to you because it is not in your country?

[Peikko 1,575]

Why refuse to explain my choice to exercise a right? Because I can. Sheeesh.

If you want a scholarly explanation of the 2nd amendment, I refer you to the Heller decision. I do not think I can explain it better. After you read that, read the McDonald decision.

Perhaps you can't read English? Go back to post # 1 and see if anything about that post suggests that I was looking for a scholarly explanation of the 2nd amendment, I believe you'll find that what it does is invite posters to give their personal opinion on the line in the sand perceived as being the one when violent overthrow of government is not only necessary but constitutionally protected.

Did I say you were not allowed to refuse to explain your choices? Feel free to look as foolish as you like by stamping your feet and saying you do it because its your right to do it regardless of whether it has any meaning, or whether carrying a gun achieves anything beyond personal gratification.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

If you want a scholarly explanation of the 2nd amendment, I refer you to the Heller decision. I do not think I can explain it better. After you read that, read the McDonald decision.

Well, that took five minutes.

Legacy

Initial reaction has deemed the Heller ruling to be of great significance, though it remains too soon to tell what the long term effects may be.[97] Sanford Levinson has written that he is inclined to believe that the Heller will be relatively insignificant to the practice of law in the long run but that it will have significance to other groups interested in cultural literacy and constitutional designers.[97] Both Levinson and Mark Tushnet have speculated that it is quite unlikely that the case will be studied as part of casebooks of future law schools.[97] As was predicted,[98] a large surge of court cases was seen in lower federal courts in the aftermath of the 2008 ruling. Over 80 cases have been filed seeking to overturn existing gun laws.[99] And, with remarkable consistency, the existing gun laws have been repeatedly upheld as being constitutional with the net effect being that very little has changed as result of the ruling.[99]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp. 54–56.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZS.html

[slim 1,530]

I vote left because it's the only moral thing to do. Hate, selfishness, no pensions, no health care, no unemployment pay,

So it's moral to spend other peoples' money?

Name which ones are totalitarian. Alphabetical list please

In fact Europe is going anti-totalitarian fast (No Franco, Hitler Musso etc) while the US is faced with militia threats from people who don't like election results

They don't have to be totalitarian to be at risk. See, that's the beauty of Europe! It's so small and close that often the "big threat" doesn't even have to come from your own government, it can come from right next door. You can sit there in blissful ignorance of how safe your country is.... until someone invades it.

There are plenty of super intelligent and sensible people in the US. The Sheriff in Arizona for instance -

Joe Arpaio?

I agree. He's wonderful!

You could duct tape your windows in case some unknown terrorist decides to use chemical weapons in your area....you know, just in case.

That's why I have a gas mask.

If people don't move on they decay - same with constitutions. The British have a constitution and a right to bear arms. It isnt binding forever like the US one so it has been amended so that the place is pretty safe and certainly compared with the US and its tens of thousands of gun deaths.

The sameness of the US will be its downfall. Standardisation used to be its strength but now it's all just mantra to hold it in chains of its own thinking while the world moves on. When the binding together process turns into binding to a rock, it has outlived its usefulness. Same with the amendments on returning runaway slaves to their rightful owner etc

ARTICLE FOUR

Amendment to the US Constitution:

Clause 3: Fugitive Slave Clause“ No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

Anyone want to say stuff like that is not outmoded ?

How has the UK been "improving?" If by losing the empire, turning to socialism and being continually b!tch-slapped by France is "improving" well, I guess your constitution is better.

Also, just for the record, the UK has a higher crime rate than the US so, technically, it's not as safe to live there.

Since you're reading Amendments, why don't you try on the 13th for size?

he knew the name/names of the automatic weapon of choice for dissidents. Without even skipping a beat or looking up from what he was doing, he answered me "AK-47 or Armalite".

I'll also enlighten you to the fact that "ancient" dates of weapon procurement (which you also poo-poo'd) does not mean the weapons are gone.

What does the favorite automatic weapon of dissidents have to do with Barrett M-82 rifles being imported into Ireland in 1969?

If you'll recall, I posted, "Name one instance of a .50 BMG being used in a crime." Someone piped up with Barrett rifles being used to shoot army troops in N. Ireland by members of the IRA. They further posted that some ex-Beatle had been the one importing them.... all the way back in 1969.

I'm glad your husband "got the T-shirt." That has absolutely nothing to do with what we were discussing here. If you're going in the direction of "guns are bad" then why don't you ask him where those guns came from. I'll give you a clue - they didn't come from gun shows in America.

*The location of this photograph is just across the river from my husband's childhood neighborhood - maybe 2.5 miles away*

This is right down the road from my house.

http://www.myspace.com/my/photos/photo/58243980/Album

Tell me exactly what you know, personally, from living in political unrest and having to defend your family and property?

Didn't you say it was your husband that went through it? I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure you just discredited your own personal experience.

[Captain Oates 911]

So it's moral to spend other peoples' money?

They don't have to be totalitarian to be at risk. See, that's the beauty of Europe! It's so small and close that often the "big threat" doesn't even have to come from your own government, it can come from right next door. You can sit there in blissful ignorance of how safe your country is.... until someone invades it.

Joe Arpaio?

I agree. He's wonderful!

That's why I have a gas mask.

How has the UK been "improving?" If by losing the empire, turning to socialism and being continually b!tch-slapped by France is "improving" well, I guess your constitution is better.

Also, just for the record, the UK has a higher crime rate than the US so, technically, it's not as safe to live there.

Since you're reading Amendments, why don't you try on the 13th for size?

What does the favorite automatic weapon of dissidents have to do with Barrett M-82 rifles being imported into Ireland in 1969?

If you'll recall, I posted, "Name one instance of a .50 BMG being used in a crime." Someone piped up with Barrett rifles being used to shoot army troops in N. Ireland by members of the IRA. They further posted that some ex-Beatle had been the one importing them.... all the way back in 1969.

I'm glad your husband "got the T-shirt." That has absolutely nothing to do with what we were discussing here. If you're going in the direction of "guns are bad" then why don't you ask him where those guns came from. I'll give you a clue - they didn't come from gun shows in America.

This is right down the road from my house.

http://www.myspace.com/my/photos/photo/58243980/Album

Didn't you say it was your husband that went through it? I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure you just discredited your own personal experience.

The Beatles thing was an attempt at humour as the Irish terrorist was called George Harrison and one of the Beatles was called George Harrison. I hate explaining jokes.

At least the Brits had an Empire and the 13 colonies were part of it - are you saying you regret their loss ?

It was the last example in the world of an illegal treasonous and armed insurrection by insurgents being a 'good thing' according to folks round here. Now that is selective.

Given the health care costs in the US, the Brits are glad to leave em with it.

As France and Britain have thermo nuclear weapons, which country do you expect to invade them because of their lack of Glock pistols ?

Anyone who claims that crime is worse in the UK than the US has no sense of proportion. Some kid stealing a battery out of a lock up garage is not the same as the Arizona shooting and its daft to compare it.

Socialised medicine is wonderful and if the yanks ever got a sniff at it they would cling onto it harder than they cling onto their guns. That's why the top 2% are frantic to stop the experiment. They know.

Name one country that has had it and given it up ? Save yourself the trouble - its non

Similarly, countries who cut down on guns never rearm - the gun toters know that too

That's the thing about civilization - it's a one way street against violent and uncaring ideas - so come on the future. The US is getting there slowly

LATE to stop slavery

LATE to give women the vote

LATE to give pensions

LATE into the 1st war

LATE into the second war

EARLY to kill one hundred thousand people to try and find non existent WMD's

The record says that the US will get there eventually - civilization progresses slower than other countries - but it is always in the same direction as Europe. It just takes a long time and they are always LATE

They call it PC here when it's really civilization and socialism marching forward. Nobody has ever stopped it.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Alan the Red

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

What does the favorite automatic weapon of dissidents have to do with Barrett M-82 rifles being imported into Ireland in 1969?

If you'll recall, I posted, "Name one instance of a .50 BMG being used in a crime." Someone piped up with Barrett rifles being used to shoot army troops in N. Ireland by members of the IRA. They further posted that some ex-Beatle had been the one importing them.... all the way back in 1969.

I think the particular type of rifle is moot, Slim. The fact is that weapons were smuggled into the North by Americans. For instance, if I am accused of smuggling designer handbags into the US, it doesn't matter if they are Gucci or Versace. And the George Harrison of this particular occupation was not a musician.

By the way, this article will give you your weapons list. Not that it matters much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_arms_importation

Didn't you say it was your husband that went through it? I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure you just discredited your own personal experience.

Yes, it was his experience. I have never espoused it to have been mine.

[Nina~ 431]

So it's moral to spend other peoples' money?

That is just silly.. As if the right doesn't spend taxpayers money.

[Ban Hammer 13,469]

That's why I have a gas mask.

sure can tell you was air force - you'd do much better with a protective mask!

[slim 1,530]

They call it PC here when it's really civilization and socialism marching forward. Nobody has ever stopped it.

Spending other peoples' money is civilization?

I think the particular type of rifle is moot, Slim. The fact is that weapons were smuggled into the North by Americans.

You can think all you want, but the type of rifle is not moot. I asked for an example of a .50 BMG being used in a crime and someone said N. Ireland, Beatles, etc. I still haven't seen the crime. Please find it for me.

And the George Harrison of this particular occupation was not a musician.

Nor was he running 50s.

By the way, this article will give you your weapons list. Not that it matters much.

How did they get select fire weapons? It's not like you can buy those at gun shows.

Yes, it was his experience. I have never espoused it to have been mine.

Maybe not, but you sure were quick to call out other folks on theirs!

That is just silly.. As if the right doesn't spend taxpayers money.

On welfare and stuff?

sure can tell you was air force - you'd do much better with a protective mask!

Part of my kit.

Edited January 14, 2011 by slim

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Maybe not, but you sure were quick to call out other folks on theirs!

Yes, I am.

As far as I am aware, neither you or Gary have any experience living as a civilian in an area of political unrest.

It is merely my contention that until you have actually lived in political upheaval, you can't make assumptions about how you would protect yourself while living in it. You seem to be sure what you would do. I do not think things are that simple. From what I have learned from my husband, from spending time in his country, from talking to others who lived through it, and from reading, I do not believe that the ownership of weapons alone would keep me and my family safe in such an environment. In fact they could draw trouble to me.

Please pay attention here and don't misinterpret me to be saying you shouldn't own any weapons. What I am saying is I think you over-estimate their value to you and your family in the real-life scenario of political discord. You know, the kind of situation our forefathers had in mind when they stuck that Second Amendment in there.

Now, if you would like to seriously try and put yourself into that situation, we might be able to continue this conversation. On the other hand, if all you want to do is hide behind preconceived notions of your firepower while honing your skills at junior high insults, then I think we are done.

[slim 1,530]

Yes, I am.

As far as I am aware, neither you or Gary have any experience living as a civilian in an area of political unrest.

It is merely my contention that until you have actually lived in political upheaval, you can't make assumptions about how you would protect yourself while living in it. You seem to be sure what you would do. I do not think things are that simple. From what I have learned from my husband, from spending time in his country, from talking to others who lived through it, and from reading, I do not believe that the ownership of weapons alone would keep me and my family safe in such an environment. In fact they could draw trouble to me.

Please pay attention here and don't misinterpret me to be saying you shouldn't own any weapons. What I am saying is I think you over-estimate their value to you and your family in the real-life scenario of political discord. You know, the kind of situation our forefathers had in mind when they stuck that Second Amendment in there.

Now, if you would like to seriously try and put yourself into that situation, we might be able to continue this conversation. On the other hand, if all you want to do is hide behind preconceived notions of your firepower while honing your skills at junior high insults, then I think we are done.

Where are the junior high insults?

What you're insinuating is we cannot assert what we'd do here if there was political unrest similar to N. Ireland and you're correct. We can't because we're privately armed. By very definition of the "unrest" in N. Ireland and our 2A rights in the US, it cannot happen here. We will never be occupied by a foreign power. Ever.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

NRA spokesman Andrew Arulandam, Associated Press, August 18, 2004

Two teenagers were arrested in Nogales, Arizona in September 2010 as they attempted to smuggle a 50 caliber rifle into Mexico. ("2 teens reportedly try to smuggle .50-cal rifle," Arizona Daily Star, September 24, 2010)

Nicholas Rohrbach was sentenced in September 2010 for participating in a gang-related gun trafficking conspiracy that included a 50 caliber rifle. Prosecutors kept the rifle on display during the trial. The defense claimed that Rohrbach was only a "gun enthusiast." ("Last of defendants in arms case sentenced," yakimaherald.com, September 30, 2010)

John Shipley, an FBI agent, was convicted on April 15, 2010 of dealing in firearms without a license. He bought 54 guns and sold 51, including two Barrett 50 caliber sniper rifles, and falsified many of the records. One of the 50 caliber rifles was used in a drug cartel-related shootout in Chihuahua, Mexico. ("FBI agent guilty of gun dealing," Las Cruces Sun-News, April 15, 2010).

Lloyd Woodson was arraigned on January 26, 2010 on multiple firearms charges, including being a felon in possession of firearms, after police found an arsenal of high-powered firearms and a map of a military base in his hotel room in New Jersey. Among the guns seized was a .223 assault rifle converted to a 50 caliber rifle, a rocket launcher, and military body armor. ("Officials find arsenal of weapons in New Jersey hotel room," CNN, January 26, 2010)

William Burkett pleaded guilty in federal court to charges of conspiring to distribute more than 1,000 kilograms of marijuana on August 19, 2009 and faces life in prison. Burkett's arrest was part of larger investigation of a drug distribution network. During the investigation, police seized 72 weapons including a 50 caliber sniper rifle and several assault rifles in addition to drugs and cash. ("Life term possible for pot trafficker," Watertown Daily Times, August 21, 2009)

Anti-government extremist Ed Brown admitted in court in July 2009 that he pointed a .50 sniper rifle at U.S Marshals who were executing an arrest warrant on his property in New Hampshire. Brown and his wife, Elaine, are charged with 11 felonies in connection with a nearly nine-month standoff with federal agents. The couple amassed an arsenal that included 22 pipe bombs, dozens of gunpowder grenades, 10 booby trap devices, and two .50-caliber sniper rifles. They issued repeated threats against law enforcement agents. If found guilty, they face virtual life sentences. ("As any American would: Ed Brown takes the stand in his own defense," Concord Monitor, July 8, 2009).

On February 10, federal authorities arrested a Plattsburgh, New York man on federal gun charges. Michael Moccio is suspected of dealing in guns without a license and of selling guns to convicted felons. It is believed he charged felons higher prices than non-felon customers. A 50 caliber sniper rifle was among the 44 guns seized by authorities. One of the guns sold by the suspect turned up at a murder scene. ("Feds seize huge weapons cache in Plattsburgh," WPTZ.com, February 10, 2009)

In January 2009, an Omaha, Nebraska man was arrested for threatening then-President-elect Barack Obama. The man told a Veteran's Affairs official,"I would like to shoot Obama and do it with a sniper shot." The man, Johnnie Galarza, claimed he owned a .50 sniper rifle and that he was trained as a sniper in the U.S. Army. Galarza's threat was reported to the Secret Service. ("Omahan faces federal charge in threat to Obama," Omaha World-Herald, January 24, 2009).

On October 20, 2008, police and federal agents arrested 20 suspects in St. Lawrence County, New York in a drug raid. Police seized 282 grams of cocaine, several pounds of marijuana, and 72 firearms, including several assault rifles and a 50 caliber sniper rifle. ("Police, feds arrest 20 suspects in early-morning drug raids," Watertown Daily Times, October 21, 2008)

In June 2008, a jailed Colorado man wrote a letter to relatives claiming he planned to use a 50 caliber rifle to kill a Mesa County Drug Task Force officer who was involved in arresting the man. Robert Hakel was convicted of nine counts of being a felon in possession of firearms after police seized15 handguns and rifles from his apartment. Describing his intent to kill the drug enforcement officer, Hakel wrote, "The one gun they missed is the deadliest of them all. I've got the .50 caliber assassin rifle very safely hidden." Police later recovered the 50 caliber rifle along with an SKS assault rifle from an acquaintance of Hakel's. ("Jailed ‘grandpa' threatened drug cop," Grand Junction Free Press, January 9, 2009).

On April 4, 2008 a Florida man was arrested on federal charges of using the internet to make threats to recreate the 2007 massacre at Virginia Tech that left 32 people dead. The man had amassed an arsenal that included a 50 caliber sniper rifle along with 13 other firearms and 5,000 rounds of ammunition, including 50 caliber rounds. ("Virginia Tech Threat Arrest," NBC, April 4, 2008; "Feds Now Probing Va. Tech Copycat Case," Associated Press, April 5, 2008)

On April 1, 2008, police in Hanover Maryland found a cache of firearms including a 50 caliber Barrett sniper rifle, an Uzi, and several other rifles and handguns in a hotel room after a man was evicted from the room. When police searched the man's car they found Oxycontin, $42,000 in cash, and a loaded .45 pistol. The man was arrested. ("Man found with an array of loaded guns, HometownAnnapolis.com, April 2, 2008)

On March 31, 2008 U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) announced that its agents had seized 10 firearms including a 50 caliber sniper rifle before they were smuggled into Mexico. The guns were found during a traffic stop in Tuscon, Arizona. According to ICE, "the seizures stem from a probe by the Border Enforcement Security Task Force to identify, investigate and prosecute, gang members, weapon smugglers, aliens and others illegally in possession of firearms." Richard Crocker, deputy special agent in charge of the ICE office of investigations in Tucson said, "Stopping the illegal flow of weapons into Mexico is a key focus of the BEST team...Many of these seized weapons would have been used by organized criminal gangs against our law enforcement partners in Mexico. By stopping them here, we are preventing these tragedies from occurring there." ("ICE seizes weapons bound for Mexico," U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement statement, March 31, 2008).

In March 2008 a police officer in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico was killed with a 50 caliber sniper rifle. The gun's origin was linked to Phoenix, Arizona according to law enforcement officials. ("Top prosecutors in Ariz., Mexico target smuggling," Arizona Republic, March 14, 2008).

On February 17, 2008 police in Newbury, Massachusetts charged a man with 26 counts of failing to safely store weapons after officers responding to a domestic violence call found 20 firearms including a 50 caliber Armalite sniper rifle. Among the guns was a loaded handgun stuffed under a couch cushion. The man was intoxicated when officers arrived at the home where a 13-year-old boy and 3 year-old girl also resided. The man's permit to carry a concealed handgun was revoked after the arrest. ("High-powered rifle found in Newbury home," The Boston Globe, February 19, 2008)

On September 20, 2007, federal agents seized a 50 caliber sniper rifle from Ray Ross who was indicted in connection with a massive criminal conspiracy to distribute illegal anabolic steroids and other illicit drugs. ("How an Aberdeen garage became key stop in global steroid pipeline," Seattle Post-Intelligencer, October 29, 2007)

On September 12, 2007, police in Suffolk County, New York arrested a man and charged him with conspiring to aid tax protesters who had barricaded themselves in their fortified home in New Hampshire in an effort to evade arrest on numerous tax charges. Police seized firearms, including two 50 caliber sniper rifles and a bomb, from the New York man's home. He was charged with conspiracy to impede an officer of the United States, conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States, accessory after the fact and five counts of possession of a firearm in furtherance of a crime of violence. ("Arms seized from Brown ally's home, Two others arraigned in N.H. today" Concord Monitor, September 14, 2007).

On September 11, 2007, a Salem Oregon man was arrested on charges of second-degree criminal mischief and reckless burning after starting a wildfire by firing armor-piercing incendiary ammunition from a 50 caliber sniper rifle into a tree stump. The fire took days to extinguish and caused major damage to private forest land. The sheriff's department spokesman was quoted as saying, "The problem with a weapon like this is that you can't safely shoot it anywhere." ("Arrest made in Polk County wildfire: deputies determined high-powered rifle caused fire," Statesman Journal, September 11, 2007).

On July 16, 2007, police in New Haven, Connecticut arrested a Yale University student for illegal discharge of a firearm, reckless endangerment, and second degree threatening, among other charges. Police seized a 50 caliber sniper rifle, an AR-15 assault rifle, numerous pistols, and "various chemicals" from the student's fraternity house. ("Light '09 arrested for illegal weapons possession," Yale Daily News, July 17, 2007)

On May 16, 2007, law enforcement officials in Connecticut charged James E. Gasser with multiple crimes in connection with a lengthy standoff with police after the man discharged a firearm in his home. Among the guns police seized from Gasser's home was a 50 caliber sniper rifle along with .50 ammunition. Police had to evacuate neighbors and deploy an armored vehicle because of the risk presented by Gasser's arsenal. ("Police Seize Weapons from Colchester Man," The Hartford Courant, May 16, 2007)

On April 30, 2007, Arthur A. Garcia of Rice Lake, Wisconsin was arrested on federal charges of being an unlawful drug user in possession of firearms. An arsenal of weapons was seized from his mobile home, including a Vulcan Arms 50 caliber sniper rifle along with assault weapons, body armor, and armor-piercing ammunition. A police informant stated that he had been to Garcia's home several times in a two month period and during each visit Garcia talked continuously about shooting people. According to the informant's statement, Garcia threatened to shoot his ex-girlfriend and her family while they attended church services. Referring to the recent shootings at Virginia Tech, Garcia stated, "The guy had a good start, but screwed up when he shot himself in the head," according to the informant. Garcia also allegedly told the informant that he (Garcia) would have to be killed but not before he had a body count of 1,000. ("Man with arsenal faces federal charges," The Chronotype Rice Lake Online, May 14, 2007)

In August of 2006, William Gerald Thomas of Gainesville, Georgia was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and use of a firearm while under the influence of alcohol for brandishing a rifle and then a machine gun at a bystander after the parents of two 14-year old girls intervened to stop Thomas from harassing the girls at a motel pool. When police executed a search warrant on Thomas' SUV, they found 38 weapons including 50 caliber sniper rifles, assault weapons, and 2,000 rounds of ammunition. ("38 weapons found in man's car," The Walton Sun, August 8, 2006)

In June of 2006, Anthony Troianello was arrested in Binghamton, New York on illegal weapons charges. The cache of guns that police recovered at his home included several assault weapons, three handguns, and a 50 caliber anti-armor sniper rifle. Authorities also found more than 200 animals on his property, half of which were suffering from maltreatment and required immediate medical attention. ("Man charged with illegally owning firearms, The Associated Press, June 7, 2006)

In May of 2006, a White Supremacist gang was indicted in Arizona on drug and weapons charges, including the sale to undercover officers of a stolen 50 caliber sniper rifle. The rifle was represented by the gang as powerful enough to destroy an armored car or shoot down a Phoenix Police helicopter. According to a special agent from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms who participated in the investigation, "The destructive capacity of those weapons [50 calibers] makes the streets much safer without them....No question." ("White supremacist gang busted," Arizona Republic, May 20, 2006)

In January of 2006, a grand jury in Florida indicted ten foreign nationals on charges of attempting to provide material support to the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), a designated foreign terrorist organization. The indictment alleged that the defendants intended to supply the FARC members with weapons, including 50 50 caliber rifles and two helicopters. ("Foreign Nationals Charged with Attempting to Provide Material Support to Terrorists and Alien Smuggling," Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) News Release, January 27, 2006)

In March of 2005, Kyle Harness of Marina del Rey, California, was arrested after being pulled over on a traffic stop and found to be in possession of a stolen Armalite 50 caliber sniper rifle. Harness was stopped for having a broken taillight and false registration tags, and was on parole for armed robbery at the time of his arrest. (“Officer Finds Rifle in Parolee’s Car,” Daily Breeze, March 15, 2005)

In June of 2004, Marvin Heemeyer of Granby, Colorado, plowed a makeshift armored bulldozer into several buildings in response to a zoning dispute and fines for city code violations. Heemeyer armored his 60-ton bulldozer with two sheets of half-inch steel with a layer of concrete between them. He methodically drove the bulldozer through the town of Granby, damaging or leveling 13 buildings before taking his own life. Heemeyer mounted three rifles on the bulldozer, including a Barrett 82A1 50 caliber sniper rifle. ("Man who plowed armored bulldozer into seven buildings in Colorado is dead, authorities say," Associated Press, June 5, 2004; "Armored Dozer Was Bad to Go," Denver Rocky Mountain News, June 25, 2004)

Slide show of the interior of Heemeyer's bulldozer from the Denver Post

In February of 2004, Donin Wright of Kansas City, Missouri, lured police officers, paramedics, and firefighters to his home where he shot at them with several guns including a Barrett 50 caliber sniper rifle. Authorities discovered at least 20 guns, thousands of rounds of ammunition, and the makings of 20 pipe bombs inside Wright's home. ("Body is Identified in KC Gunfight, Fire," The Kansas City Star, March 30, 2004)

Slide show of the crime scene from thekansascitychannel.com

In June of 2000, Robert W. Stewart of Mesa, Arizona, a convicted felon, was charged with felony possession of firearms for being in possession of Maadi-Griffin 50 caliber "kit guns" he was selling from his home, along with other firearms alleged to be in his possession. Stewart has become a folk hero among hard-line gun advocates and 50 caliber enthusiasts. He was distinguished, among other things, by his assertion that convicted felons have the right to possess firearms: "I don't care if he's a mass murderer, he killed 50,000 people. He still has a right to have a gun. A gun is just a tool." (MSNBC transcript, "The .50-caliber militia," http://msnbc.com/news, May 15, 2001)

In April of 2000, convicted felon Wayne Frank Barbuto of Salt Lake City, Utah, was charged with attempting to sell two 50 caliber sniper rifles to undercover federal agents. The government believes Barbuto manufactured the guns himself. During a search of Barbuto's home, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) agents discovered more than 32 firearms and thousands of rounds of ammunition. ("Sandy Gun Dealer Charged by Feds," The Associated Press, May 5, 2000)

According to the General Accounting Office (GAO), 50 caliber sniper rifles have been found in the armories of drug dealers in California, Missouri, and Indiana. A federal investigation in 1999 was "targeting the movement of .50 caliber semi-automatic rifles from the United States to Mexico for use by drug cartels." ("Weaponry: .50 Caliber Rifle Crime," GAO Office of Special Investigations letter, August 4, 1999)

On March 19, 1998, following an undercover investigation, federal law enforcement officers arrested three members of a radical Michigan group known as the North American Militia. The men were charged with plotting to bomb federal office buildings, destroy highways, utilities, and public roads, and assassinate the state's governor, senior U.S. Senator, federal judges, and other federal officials. All three were ultimately convicted. A 50 caliber sniper rifle was among the weapons found in their possession. ("Prosecutor: Hate Was Motive Behind Plot," The Associated Press, November 18, 1998)

Wisconsin father and son James and Theodore Oswald were sentenced in 1995 to multiple life terms for armed robbery and the murder of a Waukesha police captain. The two had "a small armory of sophisticated and expensive weapons, including two custom-made .50-caliber rifles powerful enough to assault an armored car—which the two were considering doing," according to the Waukesha county sheriff. ("Possible Links Between Robbers, Far Right Sought," Chicago Tribune, July 10, 1995)

In the summer of 1995, Canadian officials in British Columbia found a Barrett 50 caliber sniper rifle, 500 rounds of ammunition, and enough explosives to fill a five-ton truck at a remote site. It is believed that members of a Texas militia group planned to set up a training camp at the site. Although at least one convicted felon was identified as a suspect, the investigation was dropped due to difficulties in prosecuting across international borders. The incident prompted one Texas Constitutional Militia official to observe, "We are not all raving maniacs. I'd kind of like to keep our lunatics on our side of the border." ("Arms Smugglers Won't Be Charged," The Vancouver Sun, October 26, 1996)

On April 28, 1995, Albert Petrosky walked into an Albertson's grocery store in suburban Denver, Colorado, and gunned down his estranged wife and the store manager. Armed with an L.A.R. Grizzly 50 caliber sniper rifle, an SKS Chinese semiautomatic assault rifle, a .32 revolver, and a 9mm semiautomatic pistol, Petrosky then walked out into the shopping center parking lot, where he exchanged fire with a federal IRS agent and killed Sgt. Timothy Mossbrucker of the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department. Petrosky, who was known to his friends as "50-cal Al," fired all four weapons, including the 50 caliber rifle, during his murderous rampage. ("Authorities Investigate Gun Sale: Rifle Used in Albertson's Slayings Wasn't Illegal," Rocky Mountain News, May 1, 1995)

Branch Davidian cult members at a compound in Waco, Texas, fired 50 caliber sniper rifles at federal ATF agents during their initial gun battle on February 28, 1993. The weapons' ability to penetrate tactical vehicles prompted the agency to request military armored vehicles to give agents adequate protection from the 50 caliber rifles and other more powerful weapons the Branch Davidians might have had. Four ATF agents were killed. ("Weaponry: .50 Caliber Rifle Crime," GAO Office of Special Investigations letter, August 4, 1999)

On February 27, 1992, a Wells Fargo armored delivery truck was attacked in a "military style operation" in Chamblee, Georgia, by several men using a smoke grenade and a Barrett 50 caliber sniper rifle. Two employees were wounded. ("Two Armored Truck Guards Shot," The Atlanta Journal Constitution, February 27, 1992)

In 1989, two members of a church in Gardner, Montana, who were part of what ATF has described as a "doomsday religious cult," were arrested and charged with federal firearms violations. The two suspects had purchased hundreds of firearms, including ten 50 caliber semiautomatic rifles and thousands of rounds of ammunition, using false identification. ("Weaponry: .50 Caliber Rifle Crime," GAO Office of Special Investigations letter, August 4, 1999)

What was the quote the facts were in answer to?

Criminal Use of the 50 Caliber Sniper Rifle

"The simple fact is that .50-calibers have not been used in crimes,"

NRA spokesman Andrew Arulandam, Associated Press, August 18, 2004

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7qpfGVUd8c