High capacity magazine in rampage was banned under Clinton-era law

[james&olya 1,121]

I think this is a case of two sides not understanding each other.

First MC's point. If someone has no training using a firearm, more ammunition means more opportunities for hits - this is true.

Nattys point - Firing more rounds quickly does not mean more hits, it will likely be less. - this is also true. The best way to be accurate is to wait until after the recoil and control your breathing.

It also depends on the environment. As in 'target-rich'. If there is a big and concentrated crowd that significantly improves the odds of hits with rapid fire. But they have still not refuted the point that the potential victim's odds of survival are increased if the number of rounds available to fire before having to reload is kept to a lower number. I expect they will continue using whatever rhetorical devices they can to avoid acknowledging that simple, obvious point!

[natty bumppo 297]

lolipop

unless it's adjusted for center hold ...

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

unless it's adjusted for center hold ...

I guess you are supposed to shoot most pistols that way anyway right? I've never shot a pistol to be honest. Just rifles and shotguns.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Sousuke

[natty bumppo 297]

I guess you are supposed to shoot most pistols that way anyway right? I've never shot a pistol to be honest. Just rifles and shotguns.

depends on what i'm shooting. i like the target ones adjusted for center. fixed sights are usually the lollipop ...

there again it depends on the firearm ... example: colt saa (fixed sights) can vary point of impact by load (heavier/ lighter bullet and muzzle velocity). it's easy to adjust poi if you reload. people have been known to pick a load and file the front sight down as a quick fix .

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think this is a case of two sides not understanding each other.

First MC's point. If someone has no training using a firearm, more ammunition means more opportunities for hits - this is true.

Nattys point - Firing more rounds quickly does not mean more hits, it will likely be less. - this is also true. The best way to be accurate is to wait until after the recoil and control your breathing.

If you're shooting into a crowd at point blank range, it's a moot point. You're going to hit something.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

If you're shooting into a crowd at point blank range, it's a moot point. You're going to hit something.

Exactly. For the indiscriminant shooter, accuracy is overrated.

[natty bumppo 297]

Exactly. For the indiscriminant shooter, accuracy is overrated.

fortunately this guy didn't hit more than he did in the crowd ...

[Peikko 1,575]

Which begs the question, if there was some explanation for his shooting the senator (which people are trying to find obviously) what is the explanation for just continuing to shoot randomly at anyone and everyone in the area?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Which begs the question, if there was some explanation for his shooting the senator (which people are trying to find obviously) what is the explanation for just continuing to shoot randomly at anyone and everyone in the area?

Getting into the head of someone like him can be tricky.

Though based on initial assessment and his obvious obsession with her, I would have to say that anyone surrounding her/supporting her is a part of her in his mind. Therefore they are just as guilty of any trangressions his has imagined her committing against him. It really plays on the 'wrong place at the wrong time' idea. Anyone he walked by on his way there and if he was able to leave, anyone on his way out would have been ignored as they weren't part of the 'event' that had her present. Everything was about her and everyone was a piece of her in that moment of rage/action.

[slim 1,530]

Try engaging the arguments I actually put forward, not imaginary ones.

It sounds to me like you're suggesting we pass more gun laws. Is that the case?

Slightly off topic, how many of the gun owners here who believe they own a gun as a means to protect themselves and their family from lethal invasion drink?

I do.

I don't take a gun anywhere ever, and I don't worry about criminals either. Clearly carrying a gun around is not a determining factor in feeling 'safe'.

If you feel safe now you should see how much safer you feel with a gun.

No, I had it spot on, I claim that had the shooter fired less rounds he would have hit less targets, that's irrefutable.

So every time a shooter shoots he hits the same amount of targets?

Had he been armed with a knife, he'd have had to be a lot luckier and a lot better trained to achieve such a high rate of casualties yet there are people trying to argue that nothing about the type of weapon he used made a darned bit of difference. Astonishing really.

He would've been 1 for 1 or 2 for 2 with a knife, not 18 out of 31. You're suggesting he should have a 40% higher casualty rate? Astonishing really.

ETA - I forgot to add, under your scenario of the assailant using a knife or other weapon, he never would've run out of ammo and given the "brave" bystanders a chance to subdue him. He would've remained armed indefinitely.

Edited January 12, 2011 by slim

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

He would've been 1 for 1 or 2 for 2 with a knife, not 18 out of 31. You're suggesting he should have a 40% higher casualty rate? Astonishing really.

ETA - I forgot to add, under your scenario of the assailant using a knife or other weapon, he never would've run out of ammo and given the "brave" bystanders a chance to subdue him. He would've remained armed indefinitely.

I'm guessing Cleo meant "number" not "rate".

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's not unlike the infamous comments by Prince Phillip after Dunblane - about how banning guns was akin to banning cricket bats, because naturally an overweight middle-aged man could chase small children around a school and bash their heads in just as efficiently as if he had a gun.

Arguments like that just make me

[slim 1,530]

So the prince was wrong?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

He was stupid and insensitive

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Exactly. For the indiscriminant shooter, accuracy is overrated.

Accuracy is never over-rated. During the Viet Nam war our soldiers, each one equipped with a rifle capable of suto fire, used something like 500,000 rounds per confirmed kill. Elimnating the auto fire capability in the M16A2 resulted in a 10 fold improvement in kill rates.