Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Personally I find it quite bizarre that someone would think that a public official being assassinated had it coming to them because of their stand on issues, but that's me. Thankfully for society, most people don't think that way.

I didn't say she had it coming to her. I said there are risks associated with the job.

A Marine knows whenever he goes out into the battlefield that he may never come back. So does his family when he leaves on that deployment.

When an officer has an encounter, he knows it could turn violent. He is trained for this very reason.

A firefighter knows the dangers of going into a burning building.

These aren't people who work behind a desk every day and their only worry is a paper-cut. These are people who do dangerous jobs. Yes, being a politician is a dangerous job. You are playing with people's lives. It'd foolish not to think that they may play with yours.

Paul - I try very hard to never give my opinion about things or debate on vj...so without going into a ton of detail and spelling it out for you because I don't care enough to do that...you really seriously need to read what you've wrote a few times.

I know what I've written. Perhaps things don't come across on text as the same way they would face to face, but if one would actually read and understand beyond seeing what they don't like, then perhaps it'd be a lot better. There's far too much 'reactionary' posting going on here.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Post #61

"If you're going to get shot, then perhaps it's on you and your policies."

How many politicians are killed in this country on a yearly basis? How many assassinations? I'd venture to guess more kids have been murdered in school than politicians killed in this country. Is being a child in school or being a college student dangerous? Do these minors know the risks involved?

Obviously a policeman, fireman, soldier etc knows that there is a risk involved and they put it on the line on a daily basis. And you think that politicians are in this same risk category?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Post #61

"If you're going to get shot, then perhaps it's on you and your policies."

How many politicians are killed in this country on a yearly basis? How many assassinations? I'd venture to guess more kids have been murdered in school than politicians killed in this country. Is being a child in school or being a college student dangerous? Do these minors know the risks involved?

Obviously a policeman, fireman, soldier etc knows that there is a risk involved and they put it on the line on a daily basis. And you think that politicians are in this same risk category?

Yes.

The only difference between a healthy debate and an ugly one, is the healthy one doesn't have anyone with a gun present.

Our political leaders have had it pretty easy to be honest.

With all the hate/vitriol there was for President Bush, with all the same there is for Obama, we've been damn lucky as a nation to had a 'peaceful' political scene.

[james&olya 1,121]

This axxhole is getting WAY more attention than he should. He really seems to be not much more than a moron with an irrational hostility towards any form of authority. But maybe I am just trying to see the best in everybody!

[james&olya 1,121]

Yes.

The only difference between a healthy debate and an ugly one, is the healthy one doesn't have anyone with a gun present.

Our political leaders have had it pretty easy to be honest.

With all the hate/vitriol there was for President Bush, with all the same there is for Obama, we've been damn lucky as a nation to had a 'peaceful' political scene.

On the very slight chance you may be inclined to finally be rational, consider this. Our leaders have been chosen by we the people. They are our representatives and our government, paid for by our tax dollars. To assure they are able to perform their jobs on our behalf it makes sense that we assure their safety from the whack-jobs out there that like the attention they get from attacking celebrities. It is very destabilizing to government for them to worry constantly about their safety and the quality of candidates for public office would go down if protection was not there. You should not need this dumbed down explanation. I doubt even this will help you as you appear to be completely irrational. Your response will tell us!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yes.

The only difference between a healthy debate and an ugly one, is the healthy one doesn't have anyone with a gun present.

Our political leaders have had it pretty easy to be honest.

With all the hate/vitriol there was for President Bush, with all the same there is for Obama, we've been damn lucky as a nation to had a 'peaceful' political scene.

BS! I always have a gun present. The person deabting me doesn't know it, but if I am awake, my gun is present. If I am asleep it is right next to me, but I don;t debate in my sleep.

On the very slight chance you may be inclined to finally be rational, consider this. Our leaders have been chosen by we the people. They are our representatives and our government, paid for by our tax dollars. To assure they are able to perform their jobs on our behalf it makes sense that we assure their safety from the whack-jobs out there that like the attention they get from attacking celebrities. It is very destabilizing to government for them to worry constantly about their safety and the quality of candidates for public office would go down if protection was not there. You should not need this dumbed down explanation. I doubt even this will help you as you appear to be completely irrational. Your response will tell us!

I agree with you except..."the quality would go down" ????

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Post #61

"If you're going to get shot, then perhaps it's on you and your policies."

How many politicians are killed in this country on a yearly basis? How many assassinations? I'd venture to guess more kids have been murdered in school than politicians killed in this country. Is being a child in school or being a college student dangerous? Do these minors know the risks involved?

Obviously a policeman, fireman, soldier etc knows that there is a risk involved and they put it on the line on a daily basis. And you think that politicians are in this same risk category?

Other than OSHA, when are we going to start protecting the men and women that REALLY put their lives on the line every day...construction workers, miners, crab fisherman, ice road truckers, agriculture workers ???

Policemen are killed more than half the time in car accidents. So are other people that drive. The chances of a soldier or Marine getting killed during a given 20 year career are so infinitely small that it barely is worthy mentioning. Not taking anything away from them...just sayin'. The woman holding the "Stop/Slow" sign at road construction sites is in FAR MORE danger than a soldier in Iraq.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Appalling.

I would say worse than Paul. Freedom of religion. You gotta love and respect religion, right? Steven is religious, so is Soffiya. Danger Will Robinson!

[james&olya 1,121]

BS! I always have a gun present. The person deabting me doesn't know it, but if I am awake, my gun is present. If I am asleep it is right next to me, but I don;t debate in my sleep.

I agree with you except..."the quality would go down" ????

Yeah, sometimes you wonder if that is possible!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As I said, there are risks that come with the job. I didn't say she deserved it per se, I'm just saying there are expectations/risks.

So you cared that 9/11 but all those people who died in the towers and planes deserved it because the people have to pay for the actions of the government.

Yet a politician being shot in the head by a random nutter because of (your words: her policies) did not deserve it, but you could care less.

How do you even begin to rationalise such craziness?

[sly_wolf 199]

BS! I always have a gun present. The person deabting me doesn't know it, but if I am awake, my gun is present. If I am asleep it is right next to me, but I don;t debate in my sleep.

Afraid of something?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm just not blind to the real world.

Wake the hell up. There are people walking into coffee bars blowing themselves up. There are people strapping bombs to their CHILDREN and making them blow themselves up. THAT is the real world.

You are SURPRISED? You are SHOCKED when this happens here? Please. Welcome to the 'real' damn world. Welcome to the world that's always been.

People want to sit blindly and idly by while they ignore what really goes on. They block it out, because thinking about it would be too troublesome and make a lot of people insane.

We pretend that murder doesn't happen all the time. We pretend that we as a species don't have our imperfections. We pretend that there aren't those of us who act out on our animal instincts.

You get mad at me for not giving a damn about the result. I don't give a damn about the result, because no matter what you do. No matter what you say, this will ALWAYS happen. It has happened since the dawn of time. Since man started fighting one another. It's called life. It's called the real.

You have jerks that want to sit here and call me a 'terrorist' because I point out the damn truth about humanity. Screw that. I'm not some damn sheep who's going to sit here and be like "oh that's just tragic." -- Sure, it sucks that it happened and as I said that 9-year old is even worse, but it's going to happen. That's my damn point. It's always going to happen just as it always has. Just like Kennedy and Lincoln were killed. Just like Reagan was shot... Just like Ted Kennedy left a woman for dead and then still got to serve in the Senate for 30 effing year. It's going to happen. THAT is life. That is the world we live in. I feel sorry for the fact that not many actually see that.

So what you're really saying is:

1) Terrorism is going to happen anyway so we might as well lets it happen, and not be concerned about it when it does. Furthermore if you get blown up or shot as part of someone's terrorist agenda, we'll that sucks, but really you deserved it because ultimately you and everyone else are responsible for the actions of the government that cause terrorists to act out and should therefore expect payback. Just be thankful you were killed by a nailbomb and not a suitcase nuke.

2) Politicians deserve no protection unless they pay for it because politicians getting killed has no effect whatsoever on the law and order situation in the country. Furthermore, if you are a politician and you do get shot - you probably deserved it because of your policies.

I'm actually surprised you didn't say the 9 year old deserved it. After all she benefitted like everyone else from US imperialism. Although presumably it's only tragic that she were killed by a random nutter because if a terrorist did it it would be deserved.

It's so clear

Edited January 9, 2011 by Ron Burgundy

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

A British viewpoint of what happened yesterday in our country.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2011/01/febrile_politics_of_giffords_s.html

Febrile politics of Giffords shooting

We do not, as I write, know what lies behind the shooting of a Democratic congresswoman and others in Arizona at a political meeting.

If the YouTube video said to be from the man in custody for the shooting of Gabby Giffords - named by local media as Jared Loughner - really is by him, he seems very disturbed.

Over soft lounge music, with the heading "My final thoughts", text appears mimicking in style formal logic, but in fact making incoherent rambling statements about sleepwalking, numerology and grammar. He writes about the US Constitution, about a currency not backed by gold, and that he can't trust the government and its treasonous laws. But the impression is of unbalanced incoherence rather than political grievance.

While we don't know if the motive behind the shooting was political, it is very clear that it was immediately politicised, at least on the internet. Twitter was immediately full of accusations that the right had created a climate of hatred where this could happen. The right responded in fury. Some pointed out this wasn't based on evidence. One claimed an illegal immigrant was responsible, another that it was done by the left to harm the right.

Much of the criticism was aimed at Sarah Palin.

Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords had been one of 20 names on a "hit list" issued by Palin, complete with graphics of a rifle-like telescopic sight.

Ms Palin meant, of course, that Ms Giffords was to be targeted by voters in the mid-term elections. The congresswoman herself had warned of the danger of the site, after her office was vandalised in March.

She said: "We're on Sarah Palin's 'targeted' list, but the thing is that the way she has it depicted, we're in the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they've got to realise that there are consequences to that action."

Ms Palin hasn't directly commented on whether she thinks there were consequences to her actions but she did issue a statement saying: "My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona.

"On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice."

After the Oklahoma massacre, Bill Clinton spoke out, linking the attack by extremists to the anti-government rhetoric in Washington. I am uncertain whether it changed the nature of the debate but it was certainly judged something of a turning point for the president.

It is just too soon to say if this shooting will have any lasting impact, although there will no doubt be new calls for a more moderate, less emotional discourse.

But there is an irony.

The rhetoric and debate that instantly sprang up around this crime show the volatile, febrile nature of American politics and those passions are unlikely to disappear overnight.

Mark Mardell is the BBC's North American editor - a British citizen living in the US.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVOCPO_a_MI

[one...two...tree 2,762]

In the LA Times this morning - Jared Loughner had several episodes at the community college he attended that led to his removal from the college. A police officer visited his home and talked to Loughner and his parents, stating that Jared would need some kind of mental evaluation before he could return to the campus. Loughner then voluntarily dropped out of college.

He also recently purchased the gun he used. In Arizona, you are not required to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Also, he fired off about 20 rounds before trying to reload - another thing that gun control advocates have tried to limit.

It sounds like all the warning signs were there, but apparently he didn't get the right kind of help that could have prevented this tragedy, and the political environment along with Arizona's lax gun laws made it easy for someone like Loughner to carry out his intentions.