Has your MENA spouse changed their perspective/opinion re: the US after living here for some time?

[Mithra 1,185]

Yeah the high amount of income taxes surprised my husband, too. Also, the high cost of car insurance as a newly insured driver and having to be more careful while driving to avoid pricey tickets. A couple pricey speeding tickets and a letter concerning his new driver probationary period taught him a valuable lesson.

Many things are all about keeping things in perspective, balance & realizing everything a mixed bag.

He didn't expect taxes to be so high, but he also didn't anticipate some of the supports that come along with

taxes, i.e. unemployment benefits. He was pleasantly surprised that if people here lose their jobs, there is a safety net like unemployment benefits.

[JeanneVictoria 55]

Wael has been here for 3 yrs. I've known him for 6 1/2 yrs and married for 4 yrs. His views and perspective of the

states haven't changed. Loves everything that America has to offer and CAN offer if you work hard. He has told me he

could never imagine himself living in Egypt again. Of course he loves his family and friends and will always be Egyptian.

He is an inspiration to my family who love him dearly. They often remark how dedicated he is to achieving his goals.

I just want to say he has been very sick with celiac but attended his 7 Economic classes never, never complaining

about being ill. He's worked and achieved Honor Societies with dedication, motivation and the desire to accomplish

only what was once a dream. Will graduate in May with a BS in Economics and is a member of the Honors College at

the University of Arizona. This achievement was what he knew would be a long and very hard road, but never did he

ever think he couldn't accomplish it. I have so often said on this board that he should be a motivational speaker. His

attitude towards life is press on, don't look back and most importantly, give it all you have and never use the "should

have, would have, could have". His love of America is unbelivable. He's just so darn proud to be here and be part of

the best life in the world.

He will have his citizenship interview Wednesday. He is going to be one proud American!!

[ArabLoveMorocco 1]

I have heard many Algerians and Tunisians lately say how blessed they feel to be in a country that faces adversity with civility. We are civil and some MENA really embrace and see that

So what are you trying to say? What about the riots in California some years ago. Please get off your high horse. Your comments are insulting and offending. And what is up with comparing our women with cows? (when you talked about the maher). This is our culture. Like it or not, that is your choice, but please do not come here insulting a large ethnic group with a long, ancient, and rich history that they take pride in. The OP wanted an Arab's spouse prospective, not biased opinons from others. I am not going to do the same, and make insulting comments about your culture. That is not what my culture taught me to behave.

[msheesha 548]

I think it depends on where you live and/or the relationship you have with local businesses whether they'll spot you or not. I've seen it happen here on occasion, too. I can see that happening moreso in Morocco or any other MENA country since there's so much more familiarity within neighborhoods/communities.

I think any experience depends on many factors. Where the spouse is from exactly (down to the neighborhood), their socio-economic status, their personality, etc. There's no right or wrong.

I agree. We live in a large city, so it's not very common here, but I could easily see that happening in other communities. And, where he lived in Morocco, while it was a large city, his little community was tight knit in terms of stores and customers. I could see it happening in pockets of our city though, for example sections of city that tend to be very close knit with mostly one ethnicity, and many of the community members speak a common language other than English. For example, what is referred to as our "little Italy", or "little Poland", or "little Puerto Rico", etc, etc. It think it'd be done there.

I also agree about the many factors, and experiences prior to getting here. I've heard of spouses being surprised when they get here about level of difficulty, the hard work, etc. My husband had always worked at least five to six days a week in Morocco & the hard work here isn't different for him. He was a business owner in Morocco. His expectation/goal was not to start a business anytime before 5 years of being here. But, we have adjusted that because it makes more sense for us to start earlier than anticipated. So, the expectation was that he would do just as well working for someone else as he did as a business owner in Morocco, based on economies and pay scale differences, & that's changed somewhat.

[msheesha 548]

Yeah the high amount of income taxes surprised my husband, too. Also, the high cost of car insurance as a newly insured driver and having to be more careful while driving to avoid pricey tickets. A couple pricey speeding tickets and a letter concerning his new driver probationary period taught him a valuable lesson.

My husband likes how the corruption isn't so as 'in your face' here as it is in Morocco. BUT, if he got one of the pricy tickets your husband got, he probably would rather have the corruptable clerk to pay off rather than pay the ticket!

He wasn't surprised that everything here has a fixed price, but he misses negotiating for prices as was the case in Morocco!

[msheesha 548]

So what are you trying to say? What about the riots in California some years ago. Please get off your high horse. Your comments are insulting and offending. And what is up with comparing our women with cows? (when you talked about the maher). This is our culture. Like it or not, that is your choice, but please do not come here insulting a large ethnic group with a long, ancient, and rich history that they take pride in. The OP wanted an Arab's spouse prospective, not biased opinons from others. I am not going to do the same, and make insulting comments about your culture. That is not what my culture taught me to behave.

If you ignore, that poster will usually just go away and/or keep going until she tires herself out. As difficult as her statements make it, it's usually best just to ignore if you can.

[Mithra 1,185]

Haha exactly! It would've been so much easier for my husband if he could've given the police officer a few bucks instead of paying $100+ and getting points.

I was discussing the prices of goods here vs. Egypt with my husband recently. He feels that although prices seem high here they're fair in comparison to what most people earn. In Egypt, the prices are high in comparison to average income. Even though the prices seem dirt cheap to Americans. He doesn't mind paying a set price here because he feels he's not being cheated and can shop around for sales and bargains. He does like to haggle though and will do so whenever possible ie garage sales, buying a car, etc.

My husband likes how the corruption isn't so as 'in your face' here as it is in Morocco. BUT, if he got one of the pricy tickets your husband got, he probably would rather have the corruptable clerk to pay off rather than pay the ticket!

He wasn't surprised that everything here has a fixed price, but he misses negotiating for prices as was the case in Morocco!

[Mithra 1,185]

My husband wasn't at all surprised about the amount of hard work involved in being successful. In Egypt, people can work 12-16 hr days and make next to nothing. He appreciates that here, most of the time, that amount of hard work actually pays off. What he didn't expect was the difficulty, in our area, in finding decent work or really any work. However, it seems things are getting better, thankfully.

To add about the cost of good and services - the price of cell phone service here is crazy in comparison to Egypt. However, the price of a car (new or used) is very inexpensive here compared to Egypt. It's funny how different things differ in cost and how widely it differs.

I agree. We live in a large city, so it's not very common here, but I could easily see that happening in other communities. And, where he lived in Morocco, while it was a large city, his little community was tight knit in terms of stores and customers. I could see it happening in pockets of our city though, for example sections of city that tend to be very close knit with mostly one ethnicity, and many of the community members speak a common language other than English. For example, what is referred to as our "little Italy", or "little Poland", or "little Puerto Rico", etc, etc. It think it'd be done there.

I also agree about the many factors, and experiences prior to getting here. I've heard of spouses being surprised when they get here about level of difficulty, the hard work, etc. My husband had always worked at least five to six days a week in Morocco & the hard work here isn't different for him. He was a business owner in Morocco. His expectation/goal was not to start a business anytime before 5 years of being here. But, we have adjusted that because it makes more sense for us to start earlier than anticipated. So, the expectation was that he would do just as well working for someone else as he did as a business owner in Morocco, based on economies and pay scale differences, & that's changed somewhat.

[LaL 418]

I don't think his perspective has changed much since moving here, but I am sure he had some eye-opening experiences when he moved (by himself) to Canada.

Complaints about Egypt:

• He doesn't like to say inshallah or greet people with kisses or other assorted norms so he is seen as abrasive there. The of course because he isn't doing the things everyone else does - the gossip starts or they try to lead him on the right path Doesn't go very well.
• corruption
• pollution
• insane inflation
• imported = good... domestic = #######
• too religious (this should be 1st)
• too crowded
• invasive society
• the DRIVING
• the SMOKING
• censorship

Complaints about US

• system based society - no freedom against big corporations credit score, medical, cell phone contracts - etc etc something one can not easily go against. omg control!
• making friends isn't all that easy (see complaints about egypt LOL)
• healthcare system- HATES how much comes out of pocket despite having insurance

Likes about US

• "american dream" is achievable to many
• appreciates lack of invasive questions
• myriad of landscapes to see
• space
• system based vs corruption (also a complaint)
• dating
• food

Likes about Egypt

• family
• friends
• its still home
• food - its natural!
• free education
• affordable healthcare
• cheap labor (but also is a bad thing)
• no big corporations
• the sun!
• history

Wow - that was a lot of rambling on my part

[msheesha 548]

My husband wasn't at all surprised about the amount of hard work involved in being successful. In Egypt, people can work 12-16 hr days and make next to nothing. He appreciates that here, most of the time, that amount of hard work actually pays off. What he didn't expect was the difficulty, in our area, in finding decent work or really any work. However, it seems things are getting better, thankfully.

To add about the cost of good and services - the price of cell phone service here is crazy in comparison to Egypt. However, the price of a car (new or used) is very inexpensive here compared to Egypt. It's funny how different things differ in cost and how widely it differs.

On of the things my husband is surprised about here and likes are the amount of paid holidays, vacation days, etc I get. He doesn't enjoy the lack that he gets, in comparision. Generally speaking, it seems like some of the issues, at the core, are broken down to government support vs. social (familial) supports. More governmental/organizational supports here as familial supports are more expected there? Maybe? Or just an over-generalization.

His expectation about my mom living with us changed. Before he got here, he couldn't understand the concept of an elderly-ish parent not living with one of her children, and was insistent that he could convince her to live with us! Now that he sees her apt and lifestyle, he understands it better. But, he probably would prefer that she lives with us.

As you point out, it's about balance, experiences and personalities, and I think making the best of both cultures and situations!

Speaking of prices of things, Do they have the same kind of beautiful 18k gold jewelry for good prices in Egypt as they do in Morocco?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Marriage based visa residents should not be compared to "true immigrants". Actually they are not immigrants at all. True immigrants left their home land for politico-economic reasons. Marriage based visa residents came to the US simply for family/relationship reasons. Huge difference.

I think you completely misunderstood the why buy the cow when you get the milk free. Its kind of an Irish expression when we talk about making sure you get married and the importance of securing their future and not giving away your life to someone who is not interested in investing in you. The maher in my opnion is a very wonderful tradition because it forces someone to declare their intentions and seriousness because they want to invest in their marriage.

I think anywone who decides to come to the US is a true immigrant. A marriage based immigrant could have married to escape extreme poverty and decided that a life in America with a person they have nothing in common with is a heck of a lot better than no job, no money and some of the misery that is pervasive in some mena countries at the moment.

To clarify your position on arabs, my daughter is an arab. I love her with all my heart and respect her background. I also know christian arabs here in my city both Syrian and Lebanese who have made amazing contributions to our community so I know muslims and christians alike . My cousin is married to an copt who's uncle was killed by an Al Qaeda bomber in Egypt a little over a week ago so along with my daughters arab muslim rabati Moroccan family who I interact with, my cousins copt family and the various people I know, I have learned alot about arab culture I never knew. I also found out that there are many different parts of arab culture.. The lebanese I know told they really dont consider Morocco an arab country. The egyptians that I know seem to have alot more in common with lebanese people and jordanians and palestinians than Algerians so even within being an arab, you will meet people in Algeria who would rather be called martians than arabs because they speak berber and consider arabs invaders even though they live in a country that predominantly speaks arabic. Moroccans tend to get along better in my town than anyone else I have met because they actively seem to interact between cultures. I have met other arabs who do not interact whatsover with anyone outside their ethnic group if they can help it so you can never even lump all arabs together like you cannot lump all Americans together.

My coptic cousin venemnetly dislikes muslims because a muslim suicide bomber killed her uncle several days ago and her whole family as copts have been abused in Egypt. I could never convince her in a million years because she was personally wounded emotionally by the systematic abuse of her family in Egypt. I could tell you in a prettier world that people are not affected by the things they see and experience but its simply not true. People react from what they have lived not from what you tell them...If you tell me that you are a peaceful person but you mistreat me, I will feel otherwise and thats how all of us as people interact

I just wanted to clarify the whole cow comment. It had nothing to do with people. I was talking more about showing seriousness of relationship via proof such as a maher.. Sorry

[Jenn! 918]

I thought the "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" expression was to discourage premarital sex.

[Mithra 1,185]

Gold prices have gone up just like here but I do think they're still more reasonable there. It had gone up just between my two visits there and those visits were only 6 months apart. I'm not sure what the prices are right now but my husband bought me a 22k bracelet last year when he was there and I believe he paid around $400 for it. For that amount of gold and it being 22k, it would've cost at least twice as much here.

I know what you mean about more gov't supports vs. familial supports. Here it seems like it's every man for himself unless a big problem occurs and then maybe family will step in if they can but it's not always expected. Whereas in MENA, family is expected to step in to help even if the issue isn't big. We definitely have more gov't support - Social Security, disability benefits, welfare, food stamps, etc. I know that in Egypt, they have survivor benefits for widows and children but it's not enough to live on.

On of the things my husband is surprised about here and likes are the amount of paid holidays, vacation days, etc I get. He doesn't enjoy the lack that he gets, in comparision. Generally speaking, it seems like some of the issues, at the core, are broken down to government support vs. social (familial) supports. More governmental/organizational supports here as familial supports are more expected there? Maybe? Or just an over-generalization.

His expectation about my mom living with us changed. Before he got here, he couldn't understand the concept of an elderly-ish parent not living with one of her children, and was insistent that he could convince her to live with us! Now that he sees her apt and lifestyle, he understands it better. But, he probably would prefer that she lives with us.

As you point out, it's about balance, experiences and personalities, and I think making the best of both cultures and situations!

Speaking of prices of things, Do they have the same kind of beautiful 18k gold jewelry for good prices in Egypt as they do in Morocco?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I thought the "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" expression was to discourage premarital sex.

Its also to discourage living togethter before you are married. I dont think an engagement ring is much different from a maher in many ways is it.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

On of the things my husband is surprised about here and likes are the amount of paid holidays, vacation days, etc I get. He doesn't enjoy the lack that he gets, in comparision. Generally speaking, it seems like some of the issues, at the core, are broken down to government support vs. social (familial) supports. More governmental/organizational supports here as familial supports are more expected there? Maybe? Or just an over-generalization.

His expectation about my mom living with us changed. Before he got here, he couldn't understand the concept of an elderly-ish parent not living with one of her children, and was insistent that he could convince her to live with us! Now that he sees her apt and lifestyle, he understands it better. But, he probably would prefer that she lives with us.

As you point out, it's about balance, experiences and personalities, and I think making the best of both cultures and situations!

Speaking of prices of things, Do they have the same kind of beautiful 18k gold jewelry for good prices in Egypt as they do in Morocco?

Thats one of my favorite things about Moroccan people. My daughters first cousin lived with me before my daughter was born and alot of Moroccans dont seem to mind older people being around and family visiting. The togetherness can be comforting in bad times