Women raped in mass attack in Congo

[Ban Hammer 13,332]

i have to agree with duncan on the previous.

Edited January 8, 2011 by charles!

[^_^ 5,021]

i have to agree with duncan on the previous.

does this mean we have finally achieved peace in our times?

[B_J 2,752]

Alright, I did my homework. I've looked at all your previous posts on the subject, excluding the one's about AFRICOM. I really want to know where you told me what this country did to deserve to have 3000 civilians killed.

I was one of the first people when 9/11 happened to come out and say "who the hell cares?" because of the ####### that's been going on in Africa for the past couple of decades...

I thought it might be this one, but I'm not sure. Were we doing something in Africa that made bin Laden mad? I don't know.

I 'cared' that it happened here, BUT at the same time felt the average American was so ignorant of what's going on in the world around them... I told everyone I felt we deserved the attack to wake us the hell up to what was going on out there... Granted it didn't wake us up at all and just turned people into little war mongers who want to kill everything in the middle east.

Seriously, they killed our people so we would wake up? OK, you lost me there.

Arrogance, ignorance, a sense of invulnerability. Yes, we deserved every last bit of it.

maybe it's this one? They killed them because we're arrogant, ignorant and something about a sense of vulnerability. Are you really saying if someone is ignorant they deserve to die? I'm in trouble.

Funny thing is, the US has a very large size military presence in Africa right now, yet we let this go on, because we are more focused on what the Chinese are doing in getting resources, than worrying about the people over there dying every day. Of course a lot of their weaponery is also bought/paid for by the US taxpayer, but I suppose that doesn't really matter either. So long as you can sit at home with your family and enjoy a nice dinner and a movie. All of this while another woman and her daughter and being brutaly raped/torn up all while the father/husband is held outside at gunpoint or even beaten to death or shot in the head.

Am I saying we should do something about it? Not necessarily. OK, it's not the Africa thing because you're not saying we should do anything. I'm just saying people need to wake the hell up and be aware and damn thankful for the life they are able to lead.

People need to stop whining about things like "expensive healthcare and social security" and just live their damn lives.You know, I'm getting confused again. 3,000 people were just living their damn lives, until the planes flew into the building. As there are far worse things in life than whether or not your family can afford to buy a new car or not.

It's a spot-on choice of a word.

Do you REALLY THINK that we can parade around the world with our military the way we do, and not expect to be attacked on our home soil? That's being naive and arrogant. It's because we parade around the world with our military? That's got to be it. OK, I know it doesn't mean we have to leave Iraq or Afghanistan because we weren't there yet. Where were we that caused them to attack us? I want to know what country we need to leave.

I've said this before in other threads. The only way to truly send a message is for innocent people to die. You want to really make people angry, you hurt those who feel they have done nothing wrong.

Our government especially, is a product of us. Therefore we are responsible for its actions. Is this not the liberal philosophy that is preached each and every day with regards to how we all need to pay more taxes? How it's our responsibility? The road works both ways. It's us who pay for he evils committed by our government, whether we support those evils or not. Okay, what are the evils? Just tell me. I really want to know. That is how the world works. That is how the world has always worked. The only difference comes when a people raise up against their own government. That's a different situation entirely though.

I know the poor little bleeding heart Americans don't get it. I know it's hard to understand why to prove a political point, that innocent people must die, but think of it like this.... - You want us out of the middle east? Then only vote for candidates who want us out of the middle east as well. So long as our government continues to wage war overseas and we elect people that support this, then we deserve every last thing we have coming. What war were we in on 9/11?

This has nothing to do with my family or your family. It's much bigger than something as simplestic and narcissistic like that. It's about us as a nation, who we are, what we represent in the world. Just as we kill many innocent people over there. Do you realize how many American citizens would have to be killed to make up for the innocents who have been killed over there by our own military? How many civilians have we TARGETED. Like the way the civilians were targeted on 9/11.You wouldn't like it, now would you?

Look, I gotta tell you. I'm still as ignorant as I was before studying your words. I don't know what specifically we did to cause this. Just tell me.

[Ban Hammer 13,332]

does this mean we have finally achieved peace in our times?

and you're next

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Terrorism by fundamentalist Muslim groups is political. It is a means of waging war against a political enemy. When you try to draw an equivalence between that and Catholic pedophilia, it does seem like you're trying to minimize the political threat that Islamic terrorist pose.

That's only true if you're convinced that bad acts by Muslims are always condoned by Islam, but bad acts by Christians are never condoned by Christianity, which is the kind of logic commonly expressed here. Catholic priests indeed used religion and their position of authority in the faith to victimize young parishioners, yet it goes without saying that Christianity doesn't condone their deeds.

However, no matter how often it's repeated that Islam doesn't condone violence and harming innocents, non-Muslims, who know nothing of Islam, quickly respond that some terrorist said it does, and they believe them. My point is that there are bad actors of all types who are uninhibited about using religion as a means to do evil. Yet, because minds are set to read what they want to read, that part is rejected, and it comes across as mitigating terrorism and attacking Christianity. That is your loss, not mine.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Sofiyya

[B_J 2,752]

That's only true if you're convinced that bad acts by Muslims are always condoned by Islam, but bad acts by Christians are never condoned by Christianity, which is the kind of logic commonly expressed here. Catholic priests indeed used religion and their position of authority in the faith to victimize young parishioners, yet it goes without saying that Christianity doesn't condone their deeds.

However, no matter how often it's repeated that Islam doesn't condone violence and harming innocents, non-Muslims, who know nothing of Islam, quickly respond that some terrorist said it does, and they believe them. My point is that there are bad actors of all types who are uninhibited about using religion as a means to do evil. Yet, because minds are set to read what they want to read, that part is rejected, and it comes across as mitigating terrorism and attacking Christianity. That is your loss, not mine.

Earlier in this thread you said something that was really surprising. You said you were leaning towards Paul. And I thought that odd because I haven't really seen you condone violence, much less say that acts of terrorism were deserved. Could you clarify what you meant earlier?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Earlier in this thread you said something that was really surprising. You said you were leaning towards Paul. And I thought that odd because I haven't really seen you condone violence, much less say that acts of terrorism were deserved. Could you clarify what you meant earlier?

I absolutely will once I get off this tiny iPhone screen and read the thread from where Paul starts to elaborate. I can't tell if he's gone off the rails, but I did understand what he was saying in his opening, at least.

[luckytxn 2,264]

and you're next

Better you than I.

[james&olya 1,121]

At the very least you are an apologist.

The appropriate word would be a TOS violation!

[^_^ 5,021]

That's only true if you're convinced that bad acts by Muslims are always condoned by Islam, but bad acts by Christians are never condoned by Christianity ...

Theology has nothing to do with it. I know you're a theologian so you have a bit of a blind spot as to how irrelevant your profession is to the real world. Terrorism is political. There are groups in the Muslim world that seek to use terrorism as a means of waging war against the West. They wrap themselves in Islam - it matters not how true believers (like you?) feel about them doing that.

As for Christian 'bad acts'... that's not what we're discussing right now and your constant attempts to divert attention to it are noted for what they are.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Earlier in this thread you said something that was really surprising. You said you were leaning towards Paul. And I thought that odd because I haven't really seen you condone violence, much less say that acts of terrorism were deserved. Could you clarify what you meant earlier?

I think that the word "deserved" was unfortunate, no innocent person deserves to be murdered. But, I do agree that Americans shouldn't have been so surprised by 9/11. The only reason they were is because,as individuals, they tend to be isolated and rather self-absorbed. The world kind of exists in a bubble where bad things happen to other people, not to them.

I am a political animal who acts on my beliefs and, unlike most, has the luxury of doing so. For most of my adult life, I've lived and/or worked in places that a lot of Americans can't relate to under circumstances they wouldn't want their worst enemy to experience. For me, and those like me, that puts another perspective and context on many bad acts. It never makes them right or palpable, nor do we accept or understand the justifications of those who commit such acts (like some here do). It just makes it relative in that the US is still part of a volatile world and sh!t happens all over.

There are Americans who sacrifice each day and put themselves in danger better the lives of those with little or nothing. Our military, human rights advocates, charity workers among them; Americans are some of the most generous and giving people on earth. Yet, the physical and mental separation that most Americans have from the grinding poverty, illiteracy, culture, nationalism, and, yes, how the politics of our government affect people in other countries has consequences, and make us vulnerable.

I understand that people have lives, families, jobs, chores, etc., that take up their day. We are busy. Yet, the kind of strife that occurs with some regularity in the Third World has spilled over into our history in the past, so it's only surprising when it affects this country directly because it's "supposed" to happen to others, not to us. When it does, we don't know how to react, but it usually results in a them vs. us position that leads many to want to respond in kind, and eye for an eye.

I reject violence and reject the message of terrorism. I'm just not surprised when it happens as I've lived long enough and fully enough to be realistic about how it's part of the cycle of life. If more Americans were more aware of people not like them, we would probably be less vulnerable to them, too.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Theology has nothing to do with it. I know you're a theologian so you have a bit of a blind spot as to how irrelevant your profession is to the real world. Terrorism is political. There are groups in the Muslim world that seek to use terrorism as a means of waging war against the West. They wrap themselves in Islam - it matters not how true believers (like you?) feel about them doing that.

As for Christian 'bad acts'... that's not what we're discussing right now and your constant attempts to divert attention to it are noted for what they are.

I'm primarily a sociologist and legal historian. I agree that terrorism is political, but a religious veneer is useful to gaining support. As for the rest of your post, you are having an irrational and emotional reaction which I will not bother to address.

[luckytxn 2,264]

When Islamic parents care for their children as much then the killing will stop.

[^_^ 5,021]

I'm primarily a sociologist and legal historian. I agree that terrorism is political, but a religious veneer is useful to gaining support. As for the rest of your post, you are having an irrational and emotional reaction which I will not bother to address.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

When Islamic parents care for their children as much then the killing will stop.

You are such a sad excuse for a Christian. Killing has existed as long as man has. The first murder was between Cain and Abel. Read your Bible. There's lots of killing in it, but I'm sure you won't find any Muslims in your reading of it.

Resorting to character attacks so quickly?