Best, Worst, Most unexpected thing about FSU

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

That's not the rule, that's an exception. You can't be 100% sure about something, having seen just one example, which is not even a norm actually. Since FSU women are more "traditional", as you noted, it's not quite acceptable to have children before you're married. It's frowned upon espesially by the older generations. That's why abortion was such a common thing when USSR still existed. Traditional family doesn't mean "I want kids, I don't want the father", traditional family is a complete family. That's one of the reasons why FSU women avoid divorse as long as they can - they want their kids to have the father.

In my MILs time of being a young woman, it was the duty of all women to re-populate the Soviet Union. There was even a national "fertility holdiay", September 12th (why they picked that day I will forever be curious) when women were supposed to devote themselves to getting knocked up. It is still observed in a few Oblasti. They were encouraged to have children, even without marriage. In 1949 there were 7 million LESS men than women aged 25-34. Exactly HOW were the women in this prime child bearing age all supposed to get pregant if they had to be married? It is also, I believe a cultural explnationfor why FSU women generally accept a wider age gap between themselves and their husbands than "western" women. It is hardly an isolated incident for the time period. When Alla was a young woman, YES, it was considered important (at least in propaganda)to be a virgin when married, Alla claims she was and I believe her, why would she lie? But she was married a couple months after her 18th birthday. I do not mention "isolated" incidents or ONE incident. I never claimed to be 100% sure of anything, but my opinion is not based on one person.

Abortion is still common in the FSU, they have the highest rate of abortion on earth and abortions as the result of pregnancy far outnumber live births. RUB are in a class by themselves for abortions. Which makes one wonder if the girls were ever really saving it for marriage. I attribute this to a general promiscuous culture and a lack of birth control.

As I have also mentioned, FSU women have flexible morals. While having a family and father and children is the desired result, the skewed sex ratio, pervasiveness of alcoholism and abuse makes it very difficult to achieve that goal and then the women do what they must do. They still want children. I do not say this as a negative. It is not. FSU women are incredibly able to accomplish nearly anything, some way, some how. As long as they "move ahead" as Alla says, she will do whatever is needed, work as hard as needed. Certainly not a bad thing.

A guy like me thinks he is the luckiest man on earth to have a wife like Alla. I would never cheat on her (I couldn't possibly do any better) because, first, I love her and second, I never have to do without anyway. Whatever I want, I get at home. Why cheat? To have worse sex with an uglier woman? A 45 year old man in the FSU can walk out to the kiosk to buy cigarettes and meet a super hot 22 year old that will jump in bed with him. Tonight. Tomorrow latest. And I do not base that on one incident either.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

That's not the rule, that's an exception. You can't be 100% sure about something, having seen just one example, which is not even a norm actually. Since FSU women are more "traditional", as you noted, it's not quite acceptable to have children before you're married. It's frowned upon espesially by the older generations. That's why abortion was such a common thing when USSR still existed. Traditional family doesn't mean "I want kids, I don't want the father", traditional family is a complete family. That's one of the reasons why FSU women avoid divorse as long as they can - they want their kids to have the father.

I guess this explains why abortion is still the #1 choice of birth control in Russia.

[ONA 133]

In my MILs time of being a young woman, it was the duty of all women to re-populate the Soviet Union. There was even a national "fertility holdiay", September 12th (why they picked that day I will forever be curious) when women were supposed to devote themselves to getting knocked up. It is still observed in a few Oblasti. They were encouraged to have children, even without marriage. In 1949 there were 7 million LESS men than women aged 25-34. Exactly HOW were the women in this prime child bearing age all supposed to get pregant if they had to be married? It is also, I believe a cultural explnationfor why FSU women generally accept a wider age gap between themselves and their husbands than "western" women. It is hardly an isolated incident for the time period. When Alla was a young woman, YES, it was considered important (at least in propaganda)to be a virgin when married, Alla claims she was and I believe her, why would she lie? But she was married a couple months after her 18th birthday. I do not mention "isolated" incidents or ONE incident. I never claimed to be 100% sure of anything, but my opinion is not based on one person.

All of my greatgrandmothers except for one of them somehow were married by the end of 40-s. And the one, who was not married is the only one, who had only 1 child, others had 3-5. Just saying

Abortion is still common in the FSU, they have the highest rate of abortion on earth and abortions as the result of pregnancy far outnumber live births. RUB are in a class by themselves for abortions. Which makes one wonder if the girls were ever really saving it for marriage. I attribute this to a general promiscuous culture and a lack of birth control.

But it's not like at the moment there are a lot of young women, who had 5 abortions, which was possible for women 20-30 years ago.

As I have also mentioned, FSU women have flexible morals. While having a family and father and children is the desired result, the skewed sex ratio, pervasiveness of alcoholism and abuse makes it very difficult to achieve that goal and then the women do what they must do. They still want children. I do not say this as a negative. It is not. FSU women are incredibly able to accomplish nearly anything, some way, some how. As long as they "move ahead" as Alla says, she will do whatever is needed, work as hard as needed. Certainly not a bad thing.

Yep. And I have no idea when it became a bad thing to want kids only when you are a grown-up, when you're ready not only physically, but also mentally and financially - and that's what young people are about. And it's definitely not about being "me,me,me", it's being concerned that your kids can have everything. Not just "something somehow".

A 45 year old man in the FSU can walk out to the kiosk to buy cigarettes and meet a super hot 22 year old that will jump in bed with him. Tonight. Tomorrow latest. And I do not base that on one incident either.

Men should always remember to use all kinds of protection dealing with this kind of girls. Believe me. You can barely ever expect anything good from a girl, who would go for a sugar-daddy.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

All of my greatgrandmothers except for one of them somehow were married by the end of 40-s. And the one, who was not married is the only one, who had only 1 child, others had 3-5. Just saying

But it's not like at the moment there are a lot of young women, who had 5 abortions, which was possible for women 20-30 years ago.

Yep. And I have no idea when it became a bad thing to want kids only when you are a grown-up, when you're ready not only physically, but also mentally and financially - and that's what young people are about. And it's definitely not about being "me,me,me", it's being concerned that your kids can have everything. Not just "something somehow".

Men should always remember to use all kinds of protection dealing with this kind of girls. Believe me. You can barely ever expect anything good from a girl, who would go for a sugar-daddy.

I seem to have survived the sugar daddy seekers just fine. If your only expectation is sex, they suffice very well.

You have your opinions and that is fine. I am not arguing the points, just stating my opinion. I see that you believe that young people are just being wise and saving their money for when they are more mature and able to have children and provide a better home. In the meantime they will abort the babies they make, not because they are selfish.

[ONA 133]

In the meantime they will abort the babies they make, not because they are selfish.

If you ask me, abortion is not an option unless a woman has been raped or something.

There are ways to avoid both having children when you're not ready and abortion, right? Sure, there is always this 1% when something goes wrong, but these people don't go for abortion. From what I've seen abortion is usually an option for those, who are too lazy to think BEFORE and who apperently are not selfish enough to think about their health and to consider the possibility of not being able to get pregnant ever again.

Anyway, everything you say just reminds me of what we call "fathers and children conflict" (after Turgenev's novel), when older people always say that younger generation is definitely worse. It's just classic. Nothing new.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If you ask me, abortion is not an option unless a woman has been raped or something.

There are ways to avoid both having children when you're not ready and abortion, right? Sure, there is always this 1% when something goes wrong, but these people don't go for abortion. From what I've seen abortion is usually an option for those, who are too lazy to think BEFORE and who apperently are not selfish enough to think about their health and to consider the possibility of not being able to get pregnant ever again.

Anyway, everything you say just reminds me of what we call "fathers and children conflict" (after Turgenev's novel), when older people always say that younger generation is definitely worse. It's just classic. Nothing new.

OK, but it is the former Soviet Union that seems to have all the women that cannot figure out how not to have abortions. You really do not need to tell me about this.

The other? It is because older people are wise and experienced.

[ONA 133]

OK, but it is the former Soviet Union that seems to have all the women that cannot figure out how not to have abortions. You really do not need to tell me about this.

None of my friends are like that. And not everybody, who is older is that smart and not at all selfish. So I don't see the point in generalization

The other? It is because older people are wise and experienced.

That reminden me of a joke, but I'm not going to tell it, because I have respect for older people.

The thing is that some older people don't realise that different doesn't mean worse, and also for some reason think that they were angels, while in reality they caused the same kind of talks among even older people, when they were young themselves.

My dad is the best. He is never hypocritical about younger generations, he understands the way it works and that's why he has always been my friend (even more than my mom). He is a wise man.

Edited February 20, 2011 by ONA

[ONA 133]

I guess this explains why abortion is still the #1 choice of birth control in Russia.

No. That's why so many people rush into marriage because the girl got pregnant.

Which is not quite right, because cances that the marriage will be happy are pretty low in that case.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

No. That's why so many people rush into marriage because the girl got pregnant.

Which is not quite right, because cances that the marriage will be happy are pretty low in that case.

Maybe the could try another from of birth control...so they don't get pregnant in the first place ? Just an idea.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3093152.stm

"Russia is currently estimated to have nearly 13 terminations for every 10 live births, and the highest abortion rate in Europe after Romania."

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/russia/ab-rusreg.html

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/russia/ab-rusreg2.html

[tmma 467]

NOT TROLLING....so don't get defensive & wadded up, guys!

The most suprising thing to me about the FSU was their military pilots who were deployed with me during OPJ for the NATO mission in Bosnia back in the late 90s.

Seriously-there was some hotties. They spoke English ( of course, as that's the international aviation language) & found it just as weird as I did sat on a joint command base eating MRE's together.

edit-they thought it was even weirder accepting air traffic instructions from us.

edit again.....and like the Dutch, they were mostly taller than our guys.

Edited February 20, 2011 by tmma

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

NOT TROLLING....so don't get defensive & wadded up, guys!

The most suprising thing to me about the FSU was their military pilots who were deployed with me during OPJ for the NATO mission in Bosnia back in the late 90s.

Seriously-there was some hotties. They spoke English ( of course, as that's the international aviation language) & found it just as weird as I did sat on a joint command base eating MRE's together.

edit-they thought it was even weirder accepting air traffic instructions from us.

edit again.....and like the Dutch, they were mostly taller than our guys.

I would say that Ukrainians and Russians are slightly taller than Americans as a rule, but I may be wrong. I just go tthat impression ans particularly with the women. The men maybe only slightly, the women though are generally taller than American women.

Contributing to conversations is not trolling.

Did you find it "wierd" because the Russians and Americans were working together on a military operation? I guess I missed the part you thought was wierd. My father, a career Army man, met the Russians on the field of battle...as friends at the end of WW2. He does not recall any politics being an issue when they met. They DID exchange food, cigarettes, alcohol and took turns shooting each others guns. (not AT each other)

The consenus was Americans had better food and cigarettes, Russians had better alcohol and women. Russians HAD women, we didn't. As to guns, there was no argument we had the better quality arms (except for the M3 grease gun) but the Russians were more "practical" and simple in their design and very reliable. Russians accused the Americans of being "cowboys" because many of them carried handguns, and they were big handguns. Russians did not, except high ranking officers.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

NOT TROLLING....so don't get defensive & wadded up, guys!

The most suprising thing to me about the FSU was their military pilots who were deployed with me during OPJ for the NATO mission in Bosnia back in the late 90s.

Seriously-there was some hotties. They spoke English ( of course, as that's the international aviation language) & found it just as weird as I did sat on a joint command base eating MRE's together.

edit-they thought it was even weirder accepting air traffic instructions from us.

edit again.....and like the Dutch, they were mostly taller than our guys.

I found it to be opposite for me. I always thought the Slavs by nature were shorter than us. I'm Frisian/Norwegian decent so maybe that explains it.

I'm the tall one in the middle in that pic...

[ONA 133]

Maybe the could try another from of birth control...so they don't get pregnant in the first place ? Just an idea.

If you look a little bit above you'll se that I was talking about the same exact thing.

But I guess I can't put my brain into somebody else's head

I would say that Ukrainians and Russians are slightly taller than Americans as a rule, but I may be wrong. I just go tthat impression ans particularly with the women. The men maybe only slightly, the women though are generally taller than American women.

I don't know where Americans get this idea from, but being about 5"3 tall, I get a lot of "I though Russians were tall" Being half Ukrainian I spoil both Russian and Ukrainian stats.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If you look a little bit above you'll se that I was talking about the same exact thing.

But I guess I can't put my brain into somebody else's head

I don't know where Americans get this idea from, but being about 5"3 tall, I get a lot of "I though Russians were tall" Being half Ukrainian I spoil both Russian and Ukrainian stats.

I never looked at any stats. 5'3" is average for an American woman though. It would seem short for a Russian/Ukrainian. Alla is 5' 7" in bare feet. Add heels and she is nearly the same height as me and I would consider her average for Ukrainian women. Again, just my general impression. Of her frinds in Ukraine, Alla is the "short one". 2 of her three really good girlfriends are easily 6 feet, the other is maybe an inch or two taller than Alla.

I had a real good Ukrainian woman friend who was a great source of information. My cultural trainer so to speak. A very attractive woman just two years younger than me. She said Ukrainian women did not like men younger than them ...or shorter than them. I remember thinking that a lot of American men would have a problem with that given what seemed to be the average height of the local women.

[eekee 182]

Maybe this is a difference between Russia and Ukraine, but I've never felt that Russians were taller than Americans--quite the opposite, in fact. I'm 5'4", and I feel like most women I meet are around my height, and my shoe size (US5-6) is always the first to sell out--whereas in America, I never have an issue getting shoes in my size, because hardly anyone has feet as small as me. Shoe size is also affected by weight, though.

5'3" isn't average for women in the US, either. The average height for all races, ages 20-29--5'4.5". For white Americans, it's 5'5". According to this, average height in Russia is on par with white Americans: http://subscribe.ru/archive/media.world.press.usa.rus/200511/08091052.html. But according to this same article, Russian men are significantly shorter than American ones, which lines up with my own observations.

Also, Alla grew up to her full height before perestroika/the 90s, and this, according to some articles, had effect (like 2 centimeters) in the height of people who were growing up during these times.

Edited February 21, 2011 by eekee