Do we *HAVE TO* get married??

[caseysarah 2]

Oh my! Somehow i got way out of sync on the messages here .. just catching up, sorry!

[^_^ 5,021]

Oh my! Somehow i got way out of sync on the messages here .. just catching up, sorry!

Oh man, that means you didn't see my super awesome idea before Krikit blew it away with her moderation laser gun. pew pew pew!

[caseysarah 2]

Lol i guess about that skirting thing .. i don't know what that's about or why the comment's removed but anyway...

Wow i just don't know what to say. It was difficult to read all this i'm crying so hard. So it's pretty much impossible for me to move to immigrate to the U.S. because i'm a transsexual person. I had no idea this was so unusual and unacceptable.

Well my girlfriend has said that she's willing to move to Canada but as i said, that means moving away from her entire life- family and friends. i realize so many of you here have had to do that and i feel for you. i know the pain of losing everybody important in my life. I don't think my girlfriend can understand really what that's going to be like for her. Her family is very close and they get together often. I guess it could be worse if we were coming from opposite sides of the continent but still ..

I need to go for walk, try and pull myself together. She's at work right now. Thank you everybody for all your compassionate words and all this important information, i will read it again a little later. This is all still sinking in ..

=,(

[Krikit 1,165]

Now i am trying to figure out how it would work if say, my company wants to open an office in the USA and relocate me from Canada to become the general manager or whatever. Then none of this marriage stuff would matter, is that right? Nobody would care about my gender status or if i have a prehensile tail and opposable toes would they? Can anybody point me to the information i ought to be looking at for this possibility? Which way is likely to be the fastest/easiest? Green card by marriage or by opening a business? (This company has been established and operating successfully in Canada for several years).

You may be thinking of the EB-5 (Fifth Preference) visa. Link

[Krikit 1,165]

Lol i guess about that skirting thing .. i don't know what that's about or why the comment's removed but anyway...

Wow i just don't know what to say. It was difficult to read all this i'm crying so hard. So it's pretty much impossible for me to move to immigrate to the U.S. because i'm a transsexual person. I had no idea this was so unusual and unacceptable.

Well my girlfriend has said that she's willing to move to Canada but as i said, that means moving away from her entire life- family and friends. i realize so many of you here have had to do that and i feel for you. i know the pain of losing everybody important in my life. I don't think my girlfriend can understand really what that's going to be like for her. Her family is very close and they get together often. I guess it could be worse if we were coming from opposite sides of the continent but still ..

I need to go for walk, try and pull myself together. She's at work right now. Thank you everybody for all your compassionate words and all this important information, i will read it again a little later. This is all still sinking in ..

=,(

Awwww. Hugs to you. ((((((((((caseysarah))))))))))))

It's not so bad. You could be in the situation where Canada has an immigration policy just like the US and then you'd never have an option to be together. It's definitely hard to move away from all you know and love, but one adapts. Cali and BC aren't that far apart, so visiting often is a great compensation. Never say never, though. You may just find a way. And with regard to your family and friends rejecting you..... I'm sure they'll come around in time. Granted, some of them won't, but some will. Quite a number of us experienced rejection when we immigrated to the US, and it seems to resolve itself over time. Don't give up hope!

[caseysarah 2]

Thanks Krikit!

Yes the rejection thing is common as was explained to me in the trans health program and by my doctors before i started transition but still i was surprised by a few of my closest friends and family who i thought loved me for the person i am inside. My mom came back into my life after a year, she had a dream that made her realize i was meant to be her daughter and ever since she has completely accepted me that way. She never even accidentally uses the wrong pronouns. It's amazing and wonderful for me to have her in my life and i appreciate her so much more than i ever did. For years i privately blamed her and loathed her but i know it wasn't anything she did that caused me to be born with this congenital disorder. Life has taught me many valuable and humbling lessons. Now this ..

I don't care what people call me he, she, he-she, it, that whatever .. i am just a human being, not out to offend or upset anybody or challenge beliefs or anything. i just needed to get this help for a medical condition that's not very well understood. i guess the harder life is the more you can appreciate each little blessing .. like your tender words Krikit. Those do help me.

There's no way i could lie to anybody or try to be somebody i'm not. My whole life was a sham until i just couldn't do that any more. Everything will work out okay in the end. I know in my heart it always does.

[caseysarah 2]

Oh and thanks for the EB-5 link .. i will talk to my boss about it. Maybe there's some hope there.

[Krikit 1,165]

Change is a really difficult thing to accept for many people. They deal with it by rejecting those who are causing it instead of placing themselves in the other person's position to try to understand that change. When you don't have understanding, you don't have acceptance. The nice thing about life's challenges is that they make you a stronger and better person if you know how to look for the life's lesson inside. The hard part is getting through to the point where you can process it, accept it, and understand it. Some of the nicest people on this earth are those who have gone through some of the most traumatic times. I am sorry you are having to face another hurdle. You seem like a really nice person. This is just a speedbump. It may slow you down but you'll find your way over it.

[sciencenerd 56]

If you want to try and immigrate through spousal sponsorship, it might be possible - just be prepared for a long, hard road. If you do, I would just recommend getting married in Texas or Kansas - they both have court precedents basically saying that a person's birth sex cannot be changed for purposes of marriage. They have ruled that even after surgical and legal change of sex (including new birth certificate, passport, name, etc.), trans people are still considered to be their birth sex for the purpose of marriage (and only this purpose, oddly). If you want to try, you could potentially be open about being trans, but argue you got married in a state that views your marriage as a heterosexual marriage. You would technically be eligible, but I don't have a lot of faith in USCIS ruling that way. Of course, it all depends on the IO you get - it's a risk you'd have to take. You should definitely use a lawyer, though, no matter what. I have tried multiple times to attach the USCIS policy on trans folks and marriage, but it's not working for some reason. It is focused on people assigned the same sex at birth where one partner has transitioned, but you could arguably do the opposite of the requirements on there (not have surgery and get married in a state that would not recognize your change of sex - Texas or Kansas or a few others) and be okay. Like I said, you are technically eligible, but the burden is unfortunately on you to prove that to USCIS. You have the added burden of most lawyers with expertise in trans legal issues would not take your case since you would be trying to have your transition NOT recognized and that's not the best thing for trans people in general (not saying that this should be your concern at all, but it may make finding a qualified lawyer more difficult).

I know that being trans makes this way more complicated, but it might be good to realize that in this situation you are not being discriminated against for being trans but rather for being in a same-sex partnership (and potentially marriage if you decide to go that route). It doesn't make things any easier, but I think it's important to realize that the reason you will have difficulty immigrating is because of homophobic laws and you can find solidarity with the 35,000 other binational couples in the same situation. I will say that same-sex binational couples are usually advised NOT to get married because it makes crossing the border as a visitor infinitely more difficult.

I also just want to say that I'm so sorry that you are in this position. It is the worst kind of cruelty to keep people apart from those they love because of bigotry and prejudice. I sincerely hope that you and your partner find a way to be together legally. I was in a similar situation for many years and personally know the heartbreak it causes. I'm luckily on the other side of that now and I hope that you will be, too, whether it's through deciding to fight for spousal sponsorship, working with your employer to immigrate that way, or having your partner immigrate to Canada.

[sciencenerd 56]

That's a good point on the location of the marriage. +1

As to the rest, you clearly know a lot more about these issues than I do, and I generally accede to your judgement.

One cause for some optimism I see is that the example you gave with two FTM people trying to convince USCIS that they were a hetero couple may be misapplied. Those two people were the same physical gender before their respective operations, and after their respective operations, and were trying to convince USCIS that they were two different physical genders, which was clearly not that case, hence the "having it both ways" objection. The OP and his fiancee are two separate physical genders at the moment, and if they can convince USCIS that they are willing to remain two separate physical genders indefinitely, they should be legally eligible for the visa and AOS. They will virtually certainly get interviews, hard ones, all the way through. The OP presenting as male would definitely make the interviews easier, but shouldn't be legally necessary.

But yeah, they've got a serious uphill fight if they try to do this, and it will be a test case all the way through. Fighting test cases is never fun.

Very good point on the difference between the case I mentioned and the OPs - I hadn't thought of it that way.

[Boiler 45,922]

Oh and thanks for the EB-5 link .. i will talk to my boss about it. Maybe there's some hope there.

EB5 is very unlikely for the situation you described.

[caseysarah 2]

Krikit you are one of those "really nice" people that you seem to think i am .. and yeah, i am too Thank you. i did actually reach "the point where you can process it, accept it, and understand it". It used to upset me- the cruelty people show me- but now i understand why people are like that. They don't feel good about themselves and it's a 'crack fix' to feeling better to redirect that at other people. i could feel sorry for them but i rarely waste perfectly good sympathy on lost causes any more.

"It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to." ~W.C. Fields

i want to especially thank sciencenerd and heatdeath for going to so much trouble to write such detailed and informative explanations. Thank you both for generously sharing your knowledge. i am deeply grateful to all who contributed comments. You are most kind.

My girlfriend and i talked tonight and i feel better about our future together. We both feel the same way and what we have found is so preciously rare. We will be together, one way or another. Most likely she will come to Canada as so many of you have suggested and emphasized.

i won't waste my energy concerning myself with the bigotry. In therapy i complained one day about somebody treating me unfairly and the group facilitator cut me off and insisted on seeing the clause in my life contract that guarantees me fair treatment. i "got the point". Around the same time a close friend of mine (who later committed suicide) told me, "Expectations often lead to disappointments. If you have few expectations then you will seldom be disappointed." i do my best to remember this.

Best of luck to one and all on this forum and thank you again for all this wonderful help. What a wonderful community you have here.

=)

[Krikit 1,165]

Best of luck. Canada is a wonderful place to live. You may be interested in the attached thread. It provides helpful links on immigrating to Canada. Link

[caseysarah 2]

I have lived in Nova Scotia, Ontario and British Columbia ~coast to coast~ visited every province but one and yes, Canada is a great place to live. Oh no! Now she has to learn Canadian eh? .. and the metric system too Lol Thank you again for all your wonderful help, kind words, and wishes of good luck =D

[Darnell 8,479]

Canada to USA also is some TN-1 visa, got at the border, to WORK in USA. Check that out, also.