Do we *HAVE TO* get married??

[caseysarah 2]

Being apart is so very emotionally painful for us and especially me because i am prone to depression so i urgently need to relocate from Canada to the United States to be with my partner. From reading the information here on the VJ site it appears to me that the fastest and least expensive way is for us to get married. Only, neither of us *believe* in marriage. We are as serious about each other as any married couple that's for sure; we want to spend the rest of our lives together and no married people have a stronger bond than my partner and i share. If getting married is the only way for us then we will but it just seems unfair because it goes against our beliefs. Is there any other way that wouldn't take any longer or cost more? Any tips will be very much appreciated. Thanks!

[vett 6]

Being apart is so very emotionally painful for us and especially me because i am prone to depression so i urgently need to relocate from Canada to the United States to be with my partner. From reading the information here on the VJ site it appears to me that the fastest and least expensive way is for us to get married. Only, neither of us *believe* in marriage. We are as serious about each other as any married couple that's for sure; we want to spend the rest of our lives together and no married people have a stronger bond than my partner and i share. If getting married is the only way for us then we will but it just seems unfair because it goes against our beliefs. Is there any other way that wouldn't take any longer or cost more? Any tips will be very much appreciated. Thanks!

well it seem to be the only way, unless you are going to seek asylum, get an employer to file for you or if you are qualified for the visa lottery and won. other than that if you have any family member who is a us citizen, like your mom or dad that can petition for you.those are the only options i see. am not sure if someone else is more advisable. good luck

[YuAndDan 153]

There is no such thing as a "Shack-Up" visa, in order to get a green-card an immediate relative relationship needs to be established (Spousal relationship)

[Darnell 8,478]

the canadien could get an entreprenuer visa,

or

the USCitizen could move to Canada permanently.

pick one or the other - these 2 'ways' seem less painful than the alternatives.

[Krikit 1,164]

Canada allows for common-law spouses. That would be the route to take if you're so dead set against marriage. But you may as well marry if the goal is to be together in the US because Canada considers you married after cohabiting for two years, anyway.

[sstrickland 4]

Being apart is so very emotionally painful for us and especially me because i am prone to depression so i urgently need to relocate from Canada to the United States to be with my partner. From reading the information here on the VJ site it appears to me that the fastest and least expensive way is for us to get married. Only, neither of us *believe* in marriage. We are as serious about each other as any married couple that's for sure; we want to spend the rest of our lives together and no married people have a stronger bond than my partner and i share. If getting married is the only way for us then we will but it just seems unfair because it goes against our beliefs. Is there any other way that wouldn't take any longer or cost more? Any tips will be very much appreciated. Thanks!

You dont need to convince anyone of the bond you share with your partner. My wife is still overseas, has been since we got married 6 months ago. The other day my uncle says to me "so hows marriage life?" while trying to quell a chuckle. There was a time when that would have bothered me good luck and god speed

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Canada allows for common-law spouses. That would be the route to take if you're so dead set against marriage. But you may as well marry if the goal is to be together in the US because Canada considers you married after cohabiting for two years, anyway.

Marriage laws in the US are made by each state, and they vary dramatically. There are currently 40 states that do not allow a common law marriage to be contracted within their borders. However, many of these states will recognize a common law marriage if it is legally recognized in the state where it was contracted. There are three states that won't even do that - Illinois, Minnesota, and Arkansas. Those states won't even recognize a common law marriage contracted in a foreign country.

In any case, USCIS would insist on seeing a marriage certificate before they would consider the couple to be married. Even if the OP's partner lives in a state that recognizes common law marriage, it wouldn't be practical to try to meet the requirements of a common law marriage (agreement to marry, cohabitation, and representing themselves as married), and then try to get the state to recognize the common law marriage by issuing a marriage certificate. Simply getting married would be far simpler.

caseysarah, the word "partner" is a curious choice. Would this be a same-sex relationship? If so, this wouldn't be a show stopper in terms of getting married because there are five states in the US where same-sex couples can wed, but it WOULD be a show stopper as far as immigration is concerned. The federal government doesn't recognize same-sex marriages, and doesn't approve petitions based on them under current law.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

If it is a same sex couple relationship, it is also good to remember that Canada recognizes same sex as well as opposite sex marriages, common-law marriages and conjugal relationships.

I am afraid that if you want to live in the US you need to play the game by their rules. The US is a foreign country, and you cannot just decide to live there without going through the immigration process. Immigration is not a right - it is a benefit granted by the Government to those who meet their criteria and agree to abide by the 'rules of the game'. Since it is also their game, they get to make the rules, however much we wish they were otherwise.

My husband and I would have been satisfied to live together without getting married as well but since the pragmatic choice was also to live in the US, that option didn't exist. If we wanted to live together in the US we needed to get married, so, we did.

While the 'choice' is yours, unfortunately,the option you want is currently not one of the ones available.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Kathryn41

[caseysarah 2]

Thank you all for your very helpful replies; i am touched by your taking time to comment.

We are both willing to get married and i hope i didn't offend anybody by saying i don't believe in marriage. It's not that i have any problem making that kind of meaningful life-long commitment.

It's kind of more complicated than a same-sex relationship- or maybe it works to our advantage- but i am actually a pre-operative male-to-female transsexual woman. On my birth certificate i am still designated as a male because in Canada that can't be changed until after gender reassignment surgery (GRS). However, on my driver's license, passport, etc. i am designated female because i am endorsed by my doctor as a surgical candidate. i am not currently scheduled for surgery at this time though.

Not sure if i would be considered male or female by the USCIS but if i understand correctly, if we get married in Canada (i.e. a "real" marriage not common law or conjugal, etc.) then our marriage would be recognized by the U.S. federal government. Is this correct?

My partner is a biological (natal) female so maybe we would be considered a "straight" couple and could get married in any state? That's why i think it might work to our advantage. She lives in California (USA) and i live in British Columbia (CAN).

Thanks again for your kind help.

[sciencenerd 56]

Thank you all for your very helpful replies; i am touched by your taking time to comment.

We are both willing to get married and i hope i didn't offend anybody by saying i don't believe in marriage. It's not that i have any problem making that kind of meaningful life-long commitment.

It's kind of more complicated than a same-sex relationship- or maybe it works to our advantage- but i am actually a pre-operative male-to-female transsexual woman. On my birth certificate i am still designated as a male because in Canada that can't be changed until after gender reassignment surgery (GRS). However, on my driver's license, passport, etc. i am designated female because i am endorsed by my doctor as a surgical candidate. i am not currently scheduled for surgery at this time though.

Not sure if i would be considered male or female by the USCIS but if i understand correctly, if we get married in Canada (i.e. a "real" marriage not common law or conjugal, etc.) then our marriage would be recognized by the U.S. federal government. Is this correct?

My partner is a biological (natal) female so maybe we would be considered a "straight" couple and could get married in any state? That's why i think it might work to our advantage. She lives in California (USA) and i live in British Columbia (CAN).

Thanks again for your kind help.

This is a difficult situation because you will need to present as male and keep your documentation as male until this is over. If you are seen legally as female by the state you live in, you will have a same-sex marriage and your hopes to live with your partner in the states will be over. If you are willing and able to present as a straight couple to go through this process, you should be successful. If you present as a same-sex couple, but say that legally you are still male so you want to be considered an opposite-sex couple for this purpose, you will likely run into major problems. This is obviously a huge sacrifice to make to be with your partner legally in the states, but only you can decide if it's a sacrifice you are able to make. If deferring your medical transition is not possible, there will be no way for you to immigrate to the states, unfortunately. Good luck. www.immigrationequality.org is a good resource

Edited January 5, 2011 by sciencenerd

[HeatDeath 430]

The only Canadian ID you'll need to show to USCIS and the US consulate will be your birth certificate and passport. If those both show male then you should be able to get your I-129F petition approved, and with a little luck, pass the interview with the consular officer. The consular officer will be concerned to know whether you will be legally free to marry once you enter the US. If you remain legally male that shouldn't be a problem.

I'm not sure how removal of conditions will work, 2 years down the road. You may have to stay legally male in the US until you get your 10-year GC. Unfortunately, regardless of state laws, and regardless of Canadian law, the US federal government, including USCIS, do not, and are not likely to recognize homosexual marriage anytime in the next few years, no matter where the marriage was performed and no matter whether it was legally recognized there. But if you stay legally male until you finish Removal of Conditions, or naturalization after 3 years, you should be fine, I would think. USCIS don't particularly discriminate against unconventional relationships as long as they're monogamous, heterosexual, and there is a clear line of income that exceeds 125% of the poverty guidelines. [Yes, I see the irony in that sentence]. If you decide to have the surgery after completing RoC (I wouldn't do it while you still have to deal with USCIS) then I wouldn't apply for naturalization until after your 5th year as a PR, to avoid them questioning the federal legal validity of your marriage.

I would see if I could get the passport switched back to male. Again, USCIS won't approve you for a fiance or spousal visa unless both your birth certificate and passport show you to be legally the opposite gender of your USC petitioner. But since you are biologically opposed to your USC other half at the moment, there should be no real showstoppers, as long as you are prepared to stay that way for a couple of more years.

Edited January 5, 2011 by HeatDeath

[caseysarah 2]

Okay well this sounds like good news .. sort of .. maybe? Bleh complicated!

i have trouble living as- and presenting as- a male. That's never been natural for me and i have been on hormone therapy for quite a long time. People generally don't notice anything out of the ordinary about me as a female. Living as a male is very awkward and i'm not sure i could "fool" people. i used to be able to pull it off before i started transition but it makes a person go kind of crazy to try to live like that constantly. That would be so confusing and scary for me now .. like trying to just bring myself to go into a men's public washroom or whatever, eek!

There's also a condition of what's called "RLE" that requires me to live full time in my appropriate (female) gender. If i present as male then i void my RLE and won't be able to qualify for GRS. i can put my GRS off as long as necessary, it's totally up to me when i want to go ahead although there's still more psych assessments but i get to choose when i feel ready to proceed. My partner helps me feel much more comfortable about myself than i did before and although i still cry every day when i see myself in the mirror, i am able to pull myself together more readily. Especially when she hugs me and comforts me but that's not possible when we're so far apart.

Sometimes i think it was a bad idea to fall in love with an American but i am in way too deep now and it would tear me to pieces if i can't be with her. So whatever i need to do i need to try because i can't imagine life without her. i'm with her right now visiting, legally in the U.S. but will have to return to Canada at the end of January and dreading that. Everybody on here knows this pain i suppose, my heart goes out to you all.

i feel confident i can get my passport changed back to male- it was a bit of a hassle to have them designate me as female- and as i said, my birth certificate still identifies me as male. However, i legally changed my first and middle names to "Casey Sarah" and, as i said, it's kind of obvious i am a woman. My disfigurements aren't apparent. i look and sound like a regular gal. So if it's just a technicality that our documents represent us as heterosexual then we're good. i can forgo my GRS for however long i need to but in an interview if i have to pass as male- not to mention the hassle of changing my name again and again- that worries me. It seems sciencenerd and heatdeath- you two have kind of opposite opinions about my situation.

Sciencenerd you say i have to "present" as male and, please correct me if i got this wrong, but i also have to live as a male through the whole process- is that what you're saying? On the other hand, HeatDeath, you're telling me we should be fine even with me living as a female so long as we keep our genitalia and documents the way the government prefers, be monogamous and meet the financial conditions. Obviously i want your opinion to be the right one but is there some way i can find out for sure? i'm so new to all this and feel completely lost. Life was hard enough without my heart throwing this (miraculous) curve ball at me.

Thanks again for your generous help!

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

This is such an unusual case, I am not sure there is a way to find out for sure, but consulting a good immigration lawyer might be a wiser choice.

In my opinion, you don't need to live as a male, but you would need to keep your documents as male until you get your ten year greencard. It would also be easier if you can "present as male" for any immigration interviews; technically, they cannot deny you for looking female, but they can deny you for non-bonafide relationship, which is pretty much a catch all, and those COs are often quite conservative....

[caseysarah 2]

Okay thanks Penguin_ie. Looks like i need to talk to an immigration lawyer. Thank you for helping!

Edited January 5, 2011 by caseysarah

[Fandango 1,439]

You may want to think about having your partner move to you. I'm assuming that your GRS would be covered by Canada's health care system? I don't know the repercussions about being covered by health care when you give up residency. I'm also unsure of how getting your 10 year GC as a male/possibly going for US Naturalization would affect that, let alone whether that would invalidate your diagnosis. Please talk to both a Canadian lawyer, and an American one. And have a conversation with your partner about the possibilities of her moving there.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Lisa C