Family member s wife lost family in bombng in Egypt

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Nope, not much in condemnation.

Just thousands of average ordinary Egyptians of all stripes risking their lives to act as human shields on Christmas.

Just arabic language message boards being overwhelmed by debate and discourse on the issue.

Just major Egyptian figures like Amr Khaled openly calling for dialogue and trying to organize events to address this disgusting happening, and al Azhar going along with him.

Just the arabic language independent press and blogosphere adressing this issue and calling for change.

Nope, not much condemnation if you don't look.

And of course, the stellar response of the Egyptian government to the whole mess, including the torture death of a suspect and the mass roundup of "salafis" in Alexandria.

Nope, nothing to see here, move along, move along.

Here are a couple of quotes from Ahmed Redhab from the Chicago Tribune

When extremist religious discourse at Mosques (and in Coptic circles) is regularly and unequivocally condemned and countered with a proactive and effective discourse of respectful coexistence, it will be a brighter day.

When Egyptians no longer have to list their faith affiliation on their official government ID’s, it will be a brighter day.

When Copts no longer need a special government decree to build churches (or fix bathrooms in their churches), it will be a brighter day.

When I see talented young Coptic men playing on the Egyptian football national team at a rate proportional to the Coptic talent in my 6th grade class in Cairo, it will be a brighter day.

When the glass ceiling barring Copts from reaching the highest levels of government is shattered, it will be a brighter day.

When Egyptian law, prosecutors, officers, and judges treat Muslims and Copts as merely Egyptians – that is as equal citizens – with merit being the only qualifier, it will be a brighter day.

Alot of Americans dont know the horrible discriminations copts face everyday in Egypt

Thank you for the dialog

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Thank you for the dialog...its important to know positive things being done because there hasnt been much press on this much past the bombings themselves

I still believe its outside forces mixing the soup in Egypt and many other places, primarily wahhabists who dont want to see coexistance

[SandyNJack 5]

Who is responsible for it? You mean terrorists? Not sure why anyone would not want to admit that. I don't think I like what you're implying about the posters in this forum.

Very tragic what happened. But kind of scary that if you don't say it outright it is assumed that you are not sympathetic to the victims!

Frankly, the #1 reason this thread has had a lack of response is likely who posted it. Hanging In There's threads often turn into train wrecks and many people no longer want to be a part of it (sorry, kat, but I think this is true).

Frankly I do not care if you do not like what I am implying. There are many things I see here that I do not like. I have every right to express my thoughts and feelings about any topic.

[Crossed_fingers 128]

No one challenged your right to imply that (with the exception of 6 people who happened to post on your schedule) all VJ users, or perhaps all VJ users with Egyptian SO's, are terrorist sympathizers. It just seems unproductive. I don't want to speak for Jenn!, but it looks to me like she was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that perhaps you had not thought through your reply before hitting post, and she was trying to provide an alternative explanation. I don't know if your initial post was an attempt to start a dialog or not, but now it looks like you've just dug in your heels. You do have that right, but you'll have to answer for yourself what you've accomplished here.

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.

Where there is hatred, let me sow love.

Where there is injury, pardon.

Where there is doubt, faith.

Where there is despair, hope.

Where there is darkness, light.

Where there is sadness, joy.

O Divine Master,

grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled, as to console;

to be understood, as to understand;

to be loved, as to love.

For it is in giving that we receive.

It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,

and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.

Amen.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Frankly I do not care if you do not like what I am implying. There are many things I see here that I do not like. I have every right to express my thoughts and feelings about any topic.

reported. no one here has done anything remotely deserving of the accusations yr leveling here, and yr comments simply reek of all kinds of religious bigotry. not ok. stop using the horrors of what happened in alexandria to grind yr islamophobia axe. the people who were affected there deserve so much better than the likes of yr tainted so-called advocacy.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Frankly I do not care if you do not like what I am implying. There are many things I see here that I do not like. I have every right to express my thoughts and feelings about any topic.

Have you ever thought of starting a coptic thread? I went to a coptic church about 5 years ago and sat through a service and it was one of the most amazing things I have ever seen. The smells of incense, the songs, the books, the people. They have an amazing bookstore full of old texts. Instead of bashing Islam, tell the story of the copts.

Become a scholar of the people that you love because your husbands family are a part of all of this. I have a copt in my family. She loves it when people learn more about who she is. Anger just begets anger and more hate. I was mortally wounded in so many ways and I decided that if I forgave that person and their family and how they used islam like a bat and a knife instead of the religion it really was, I could move on.

With everything in your being, find a way to forgive and then tell the story of the copts at every turn. No one will listen to hate but they will listen to reason.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

No one challenged your right to imply that (with the exception of 6 people who happened to post on your schedule) all VJ users, or perhaps all VJ users with Egyptian SO's, are terrorist sympathizers. It just seems unproductive. I don't want to speak for Jenn!, but it looks to me like she was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that perhaps you had not thought through your reply before hitting post, and she was trying to provide an alternative explanation. I don't know if your initial post was an attempt to start a dialog or not, but now it looks like you've just dug in your heels. You do have that right, but you'll have to answer for yourself what you've accomplished here.

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.

Where there is hatred, let me sow love.

Where there is injury, pardon.

Where there is doubt, faith.

Where there is despair, hope.

Where there is darkness, light.

Where there is sadness, joy.

O Divine Master,

grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled, as to console;

to be understood, as to understand;

to be loved, as to love.

For it is in giving that we receive.

It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,

and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.

Amen.

As Charles has pointed out, there is a politics and religions forum here that is very lively. She could post there as well.

Its as deeply as offensive to people with copts in their family to minimise what happened to their families as much as it is to a muslim to point out terrorist incidents or muslims doing the wrong thing. The best advice I could give her it to turn the rage into real advocacy which is not bashing islam or muslims but telling the story of the copts. If someone is concerned about whats happening to them , they could start a coptic thread and talk about what life is like in Egypt for them. Talk about their history, their religion, the hardships they face, famous copts through out history in Egypt, their churches, traditions.

We should be striving to advocate for each other and listen to each other because when we make this about religion only and not the whole society, people get lost in the hardships and not our similiarities..

Most very hard prejudices are built on very bad experiences with people. No interaction or minimal interaction wont build that kind of anger. Sandy and Jack may have had some really bad experience or her family did ( died , experienced hardship) and she is reflecting what happened but is expressing herself in a way that people cant hear what shes saying.

Sorry I am being so philosophical. I am going through chemo right now and I figured out that real illness makes you ascend when you have to slice apart what matter and what does not.

[Jenn! 918]

Frankly I do not care if you do not like what I am implying. There are many things I see here that I do not like. I have every right to express my thoughts and feelings about any topic.

Who said you can't express your "thoughts and feelings"? Please do share all of the things you see here that you do not like. We all have the same rights as you do to comment on your thoughts and feelings.

[sandinista! 1,816]

As Charles has pointed out, there is a politics and religions forum here that is very lively. She could post there as well.

Its as deeply as offensive to people with copts in their family to minimise what happened to their families as much as it is to a muslim to point out terrorist incidents or muslims doing the wrong thing. The best advice I could give her it to turn the rage into real advocacy which is not bashing islam or muslims but telling the story of the copts. If someone is concerned about whats happening to them , they could start a coptic thread and talk about what life is like in Egypt for them. Talk about their history, their religion, the hardships they face, famous copts through out history in Egypt, their churches, traditions.

We should be striving to advocate for each other and listen to each other because when we make this about religion only and not the whole society, people get lost in the hardships and not our similiarities..

Most very hard prejudices are built on very bad experiences with people. No interaction or minimal interaction wont build that kind of anger. Sandy and Jack may have had some really bad experience or her family did ( died , experienced hardship) and she is reflecting what happened but is expressing herself in a way that people cant hear what shes saying.

Sorry I am being so philosophical. I am going through chemo right now and I figured out that real illness makes you ascend when you have to slice apart what matter and what does not.

not quite. i can't stand muslim ostriches with their heads buried in the sand when it comes to those issues anymore than the next person. there's a big difference though between exploring those issues, their root causes etc. and just being an ignorant basher.

i hope yr doing well with yr treatment though, and that yr tolerating it well. as well as can be expected anyways, chemo is certainly no day at the beach.