Why Big Shopping Bargains Are Bad News For America

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Sounds like a race to the bottom. Maybe this is where we are all headed. I wish there was another way!

I don't share your enthusiasm for the national sales tax. I think it would also have significant problems.

Presently it IS a race to the bottom. The government thinks of new ways to tax business and each time a new tax goes into effect a few more businesses leave and take their manufacturing elsewhere. Just this year, Burton Snowboards, a homegrown Burlington based maker of snowboards and associated gear moved all their manufacturing overseas! More than 70 good paying jobs were lost and in our community that's pretty big. Not to mention it was one of those "Vermont Brands", another one, lost. Gone. The reasons? Simply too expensive. The company cited healthcare costs and taxes as the reason to move manufacturing. Local people are plenty pee'd off about it but so what? Vermonters make up maybe 1% of their market and guess what, most of them will still buy Burton. Maybe more since the prices have come down considerably for 2011...big surprise. Introduce the Fair Tax and Burton will be back. You think they went to Indonesia because Indonesians make the best snowboards?

As it is now, the government finds ways to tax them and the businesses find ways to avoid the tax. Government gets no money, people get no jobs...well, foreign people get jobs, Yeee Haaa. We worry so much about illegal immigrants when most of our jobs have been lost to foreigners that have never been to the US.

The current tax system is running business out of our country as if by turning a flame thrower on them. Seriously, Jim, I will be retiring in a few years and we kept our flat in Donetsk just for that purpose. I can live there for a small fraction of what we pay here. Alla and the boys will be citizens and we can come and go as we please. I do not intend to stay here and watch my savings be consumed by taxes.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[SuperDuper! 230]

You forgot the Audio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yFSpml8oSw

[peejay 327]

I do not intend to stay here and watch my savings be consumed by taxes.

I'm just as worried about inflation. It's the tax you never see until you spend your savings.

[luckytxn 2,265]

In all Fairness (pardon the pun) have you studied the proposed FAIR TAX? What problems do you think it would cause? I mean, I suppose any tax system could have problems (democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others) but what do you think would be the problems associated with it?

But the poor would be hard hit......right?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I'm just as worried about inflation. It's the tax you never see until you spend your savings.

I am too, but for another reason. All of the ####### we buy has oil in it. That coffee maker probably needed at least a pint. Our farming system uses oil in great amounts, from the machinery, to the pesticides, to the fertilizers that are applied to the joke of a sponge we call top soil. You think your saving the planet by buying a prius or supporting solar panels? How much oil goes into building a prius, How much oil goes into fabricating a solar panel? Ethanol? Yeah thats pretty much a net zero energy source. The amount of oil that goes into growing corn comes out as ethanol. Tar sand and Shale Oil have such a low ratio of energy produced / energy lost in production. Oil discovery peaked in the 1960's. This is the real future we face. One where people are going to starve to death.

[Dan and Judy 614]

But the poor would be hard hit......right?

Under the FairTax, family households of lawful U.S. residents would receive a “Family Consumption Allowance” (FCA) based on family size (regardless of income) that is equal to the estimated total FairTax paid on poverty level spending according to the poverty guidelines published by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services … Opponents of the plan criticize this tax rebate due to its costs. Economists at the Beacon Hill Institute estimated the overall rebate cost to be $489 billion (assuming 100 percent participation). In addition, economist Bruce Bartlett has argued that the rebate would create a large opportunity for fraud, treats children disparately, and would constitute a welfare payment regardless of need.

http://geekpolitics.com/10-pros-and-cons-of-the-fair-tax/

[Dan and Judy 614]

Raw unchecked capitalism tends to concentrate the power and the wealth into the hands of the few. (the capitalists)

The goverment of the United States tries to regulate businesses in

an attempt to keep the wealth from being concentrated in the hands

of the capitalists.

Goverment regulation has resulted in the large middle class that we

have in this country. The Unions played a major role in this also.

Sometimes the goverment regulations favored big business sometimes the Unions. Goverment regulations are strongly influenced by money.

The law of unintended consequences jumps in with both feet.

Every regulation and tax you put on businesses in the United States

hurts them in a competitive global market where other countries

are not subjecting the businesses to the same regulations and taxes.

　

Short of one world goverment, the US can not dictate the policies

of the other goverments.

The "Fair Tax" might make the US more competitive but it does nothing to address the fact that other countries have labor that

is willing to work at a quarter of the cost of US workers and it does not deal with the working conditions of the workers in the other countries which seems to be a major concern of the person that wrote the article.

Crazy talk, I know. Where is this coming from? Well, it began with some reading I've been doing about the trade-offs we make for ultra-cheap goods—the child workers in Bangladesh who sew our clothes and brush their teeth with ash since they can't afford toothpaste,

Assuming you could implement the plan of curbing consumerism you dont have to worry about the child in Bangladesh brushing his teeth. He would die of starvation because his company would go out of business. We have enough clothes in the United States to last for 10 years without anyone sewing more. Consumerism is feeding that child.

If you succeed in curbing the consumerism, You shrink our economy. If you shrink our economy you increase unemployment here in the states. You increase the size of our debt in relation to our economy.

If you shrink the economy you shrink the power of the United States in relation to other countries.

The United States has been deficit spending for the majority of the last 40 years. Thats bad. the middle of a recession is not the best time to stop it, but it needs to stop.

BTW toothpaste is consumerism at work, you dont need it to brush your teeth.

It benifits the individual to reduce spending but that reduces employment for others and decreases the income of the goverment which continues to spend regardless of income.

　

　

　

[peejay 327]

I am too, but for another reason. All of the ####### we buy has oil in it. That coffee maker probably needed at least a pint. Our farming system uses oil in great amounts, from the machinery, to the pesticides, to the fertilizers that are applied to the joke of a sponge we call top soil. You think your saving the planet by buying a prius or supporting solar panels? How much oil goes into building a prius, How much oil goes into fabricating a solar panel? Ethanol? Yeah thats pretty much a net zero energy source. The amount of oil that goes into growing corn comes out as ethanol. Tar sand and Shale Oil have such a low ratio of energy produced / energy lost in production. Oil discovery peaked in the 1960's. This is the real future we face. One where people are going to starve to death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Emergency

As with most things in this world, people don't worry about sh*t until they step in it. That is to say...a lot of these issues have been pushed back into obscurity since the Great Recession and worldwide economic downturn reduced oil consumption along with the associated price drops.

I do believe in Peak Oil. It isn't a fairy tale. It will happen. It's just a matter of when and it won't be pretty.

[lostinblue 1,989]

wait until you get "peak food"...when the oil stops the cheap food stops. Think about spending 40-50% of your gross on food per year. Oil did one thing well it allowed the population on this earth to grow. Hope you have 10 acres in the back yard and the ability to work it.Maybe you will survive. What you are paying for food this fall price wise will be a drop in the bucket in the future.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

I am too, but for another reason. All of the ####### we buy has oil in it. That coffee maker probably needed at least a pint. Our farming system uses oil in great amounts, from the machinery, to the pesticides, to the fertilizers that are applied to the joke of a sponge we call top soil. You think your saving the planet by buying a prius or supporting solar panels? How much oil goes into building a prius, How much oil goes into fabricating a solar panel? Ethanol? Yeah thats pretty much a net zero energy source. The amount of oil that goes into growing corn comes out as ethanol. Tar sand and Shale Oil have such a low ratio of energy produced / energy lost in production. Oil discovery peaked in the 1960's. This is the real future we face. One where people are going to starve to death.

Oil is a finite resource and it will run out at some point. We have other energy resources that are not in danger of running out any time soon. The GW nuts just won't let us use them. We have coal and NG that would be enough to supply us with energy for decades without running low. We could be energy independant in a few years if we chose to be. That would give us the time to develop renuable energy without the panic. Cars could be converted to run on NG without very much modifications. If we have an energy crisis it will be a crisis of our own making because of some misguided people beleving in the great GW hoax. The power grab by those pushing this discredited theory will cause this county great harm in the name of "saving the planet".

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Oil is a finite resource and it will run out at some point. We have other energy resources that are not in danger of running out any time soon. The GW nuts just won't let us use them. We have coal and NG that would be enough to supply us with energy for decades without running low. We could be energy independant in a few years if we chose to be. That would give us the time to develop renuable energy without the panic. Cars could be converted to run on NG without very much modifications. If we have an energy crisis it will be a crisis of our own making because of some misguided people beleving in the great GW hoax. The power grab by those pushing this discredited theory will cause this county great harm in the name of "saving the planet".

Your rant against the GW nuts in this context is a bit out of place. NG powered vehicles are actually much farther along in GW nuts regions such as Europe than they are here. CNG cars are ever more common in Germany, for example, where CNG fuel is readily available - see below trends of CNG stations operating in Germany. Not only that, though. Within the next 5 years, they will also be ready for fuel cell cars - the next generation of vehicles. You gotta invest into these technologies and the networks to support them. Some states in the US are doing this but there's no discernible national effort to head down that path. Rather, we keep subsidizing the energy sources from yesterday. That standing in the way of progress and that leaving the future energy technologies territory to other nations, my friend, isn't the GW nuts doing.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

Your rant against the GW nuts in this context is a bit out of place. NG powered vehicles are actually much farther along in GW nuts regions such as Europe than they are here. CNG cars are ever more common in Germany, for example, where CNG fuel is readily available - see below trends of CNG stations operating in Germany. Not only that, though. Within the next 5 years, they will also be ready for fuel cell cars - the next generation of vehicles. You gotta invest into these technologies and the networks to support them. Some states in the US are doing this but there's no discernible national effort to head down that path. Rather, we keep subsidizing the energy sources from yesterday. That standing in the way of progress and that leaving the future energy technologies territory to other nations, my friend, isn't the GW nuts doing.

So sorry to disagree but the nuts lump NG in with oil because of the dreaded label "fossil fuel". I am glad that Germany is using NG. I hope that we will as well but not as long as the nuts here think that any fuel that expells CO2 is some sort of a pollutant. They are holding the US back and are hurting everyone with their misguided activism.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So sorry to disagree but the nuts lump NG in with oil because of the dreaded label "fossil fuel". I am glad that Germany is using NG. I hope that we will as well but not as long as the nuts here think that any fuel that expells CO2 is some sort of a pollutant. They are holding the US back and are hurting everyone with their misguided activism.

CO2 emmissions from CNG powered vehicles are lower than gasoline or diesel powered vehicles. That's on top of reductions in other harmful emissions. Contrary to your belief, this fact sure isn't lost on the "nuts" as you would have it. It also isn't lost on the EPA.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency calculated the potential benefits of CNG versus gasoline based on the inherently cleaner-burning characteristics of natural gas, summarized in Clean Alternative Fuels:

• Reduces carbon monoxide emissions 90%-97%
  
• Reduces carbon dioxide emissions 25%
  
• Reduces nitrogen oxide emissions 35%-60%
  
• Potentially reduces non-methane hydrocarbon emissions 50%-75%
  
• Emits fewer toxic and carcinogenic pollutants
  
• Emits little or no particulate matter
  
• Eliminates evaporative emissions
  

As automakers have improved the emissions performance of gasoline vehicles to keep pace with stricter emissions regulations, improvements in CNG vehicles have kept their emissions performance ahead of the pack. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has called the natural gas Honda Civic GX the cleanest internal-combustion vehicle on Earth.

Your criticism is mis-directed.

[mawilson 2,133]

But the poor would be hard hit......right?

No - I understand everyone gets a "prebate" before the tax kicks in.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

CO2 emmissions from CNG powered vehicles are lower than gasoline or diesel powered vehicles. That's on top of reductions in other harmful emissions. Contrary to your belief, this fact sure isn't lost on the "nuts" as you would have it. It also isn't lost on the EPA.

Your criticism is mis-directed.

And yet I see no movement to NG. I don't see service stations retrofitting to supply NG, I don't see the major auto makers offering NG cars and I still see that the EPA wants to regulate the carbon output of NG powered electric plants. All I do see is lip service and a misguided emphasis on solar and wind. Solar and wind may at some point supply some larger percentage of our power but it will never take up the lions share of our energy needs. NG and coal can eliminate our dependancy on imported oil in a matter of a few years if we put some effort into it. The reason we don't is because the nuts still see NG as a "polluter". They just say it is the lessor of the evils. Forget coal, the nuts will never let us expand that even though we have enough coal to last us for hundreds of years. Get the GW nuts out of the mix and we could stop supporting the ME terrorists with our oil money very quickly.