Question about Dual U.S./Russian Citizenship

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I can make 10% profit of my investment without ever leaving my bed, and I mean that literally.

If I had 20,000,000.00 to invest, that would give me on average 166,000.00 per month to live on without even having to touch the principal. That's more than I need, a lot more. Now, I like to get out of bed once in a while, so if I were to invest about 2 Million in the business I have, I probably could take another $25K home every month. I could buy a bigger house, a vacation home, and take the time to actually enjoy life a bit more. Twenty Million means never having to worry about money again, even if invested very conservatively. Thus, I think the last thing I would do is travel to freezing cold Russia and try to get involved with the Russian Mafia. If it was money I had to hide for any reasons, there are much better places to do that.

But that maybe just me.

[eekee 182]

Well, some people do like risk and adventure, I guess. There is certainly potential for making money in Russia. My dad used to do private banking and he had one American client who flips old kommunalkas--buying every tenant out individually, placing them in a new apartment in the outskirts of the city, and then turning the kommunalka into a luxury flat--and this guy has made a LOT of money doing this. In addition, I know plenty of expats who simply enjoy living in Russia and have started businesses there, despite the risks.

Invest your money wisely, hang out in Russia, explore possibilities like real estate or running an expat restaurant or bar. But Russian citizenship will only make you more vulnerable to the dark side of doing business in Russia. Frankly, the fact that you haven't realized this on your own--and think that living in Brighton Beach is enough of a training ground to prepare you to do business in Russia--says to me that you have a lot more research to do on what Russia is like, not Little Odessa.

On the plus side, I've found that people in Russia are way nicer than the people in Brighton Beach.

I've talked quite a bit about this with my wife. We've taken small steps for TEOTWAWKI here in the States but I've often wondered if we wouldn't fare better in the Russian Far East. I've thought about heading over there if things get crazy here. Maybe just to ride it out, maybe indefinitely. Who knows.

Either way though, I keep telling myself heading to a place that averages 2 meters of snow and sub-zero weather for several months a year just isn't a good idea. Why can't we ride out the apocalypse in the Dominican Republic?

Head to the Black Sea?

[clueless_in_usa 8]

I can make 10% profit of my investment without ever leaving my bed, and I mean that literally.

But that maybe just me.

If you can do that consistently year after year, I want to know your secret.

I know nobody yet who can consistently beat the market average every year of his/her life. If you can, then you should be rich with your "secret system," and maybe even be considered for the Nobel prize in Economics.

Wouldn't that be an achievement?

[slim 1,530]

You don't have to be successful to win a Nobel prize. Hell, you don't even have to do anything at all, just look at our president.

[ggg12 0]

How quickly do you think you can learn adequate Russian to do business with tough Russian businessmen, bankers and local officials...all of whom will want some bribes from you to "help" you out? Do you understand the cost of living is crazy high in Russia? Do you understand one of Russia's greatest businessmen is serving a long time at hard labor in a Siberian prison? Why? He opposed Putin. He sponsored opposing parties. He criticized Putin. He went from the richest man in Russia to a common, convicted criminal who will probably never get out of prison. How "cool" is that?

Yeah, it might be really"cool" to take 2 million and entrust it to a shaky banking system and corrupt business and political environment. And the Russian mafia would most likely "have you for lunch."

Well, I'm fluent in Russian and I'll most likely have an accountant to handle the bankers and businessmen. But I don't know. I don't know if this whole mafia thing is overblown there or if it's the real deal.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Well, I'm fluent in Russian and I'll most likely have an accountant to handle the bankers and businessmen. But I don't know. I don't know if this whole mafia thing is overblown there or if it's the real deal.

Government corruption and bribery is the norm in Russia.

[visaveteran 1]

Well, I'm fluent in Russian and I'll most likely have an accountant to handle the bankers and businessmen. But I don't know. I don't know if this whole mafia thing is overblown there or if it's the real deal.

Your first exposure to the mafia will be at the airport...they control the taxi cab business, which is why it costs $60-$80 dollars to go a few miles to the other terminal. Welcome to Russia!

If you have an accountant, you better bring him/her over with you or you may wake up with an empty bank account. There's a reason the US business sector lost interest in doing business in Russia years ago. It's just is not worth the hassles and risks and required payoffs starting with the little local mayors and working up through the bureaucracy.

There was a window of opportunity under Yeltsin but those days are over. Life with Putin is too uncertain and after Russia invaded Georgia, there's been a real exodus of US business in Russia. One thing I learned through my wife owning a business in Russia...the landlords run the smaller business into the ground. It's difficult and very expensive to buy commercial property...so you have deal with the landlords who are either mafia or act like mafia. As soon as you start to do well, they roll in wanting more rent or insist you upgrade the space...new paint, flooring, lights, etc. It never ends. And if your competition gets angry with you or feels threatened, your life will be in danger. They'll put out a "hit" on you. This is no joke. They play hardball in Russia.

[SMR 368]

If you can do that consistently year after year, I want to know your secret.

I know nobody yet who can consistently beat the market average every year of his/her life. If you can, then you should be rich with your "secret system," and maybe even be considered for the Nobel prize in Economics.

Wouldn't that be an achievement?

Seriously...

If you will guarantee me 8%, I'll let you keep whatever you get above that. Russian investment aside, if you can guarantee 10%, you should be filthy rich.

I understand the point about investing the money and living off the interest, but a guaranteed 10% is unreal.

Well, I'm fluent in Russian and I'll most likely have an accountant to handle the bankers and businessmen. But I don't know. I don't know if this whole mafia thing is overblown there or if it's the real deal.

In some ways it's the real deal, in some ways it's overblown. But honestly, if you're serious about starting a business in Russia, you need connections, an understanding of the situation, and people that you can trust. If you have those things, great, go for it. But ask them about the situation with the government, mafia, and such. People on this forum are not going to be able to give you serious help or accurate advice about Russia in 2010 (maybe a couple people here can, but most can't and how will you know who is who).

Your first exposure to the mafia will be at the airport...they control the taxi cab business, which is why it costs $60-$80 dollars to go a few miles to the other terminal. Welcome to Russia!

If you have an accountant, you better bring him/her over with you or you may wake up with an empty bank account. There's a reason the US business sector lost interest in doing business in Russia years ago. It's just is not worth the hassles and risks and required payoffs starting with the little local mayors and working up through the bureaucracy.

There was a window of opportunity under Yeltsin but those days are over. Life with Putin is too uncertain and after Russia invaded Georgia, there's been a real exodus of US business in Russia. One thing I learned through my wife owning a business in Russia...the landlords run the smaller business into the ground. It's difficult and very expensive to buy commercial property...so you have deal with the landlords who are either mafia or act like mafia. As soon as you start to do well, they roll in wanting more rent or insist you upgrade the space...new paint, flooring, lights, etc. It never ends. And if your competition gets angry with you or feels threatened, your life will be in danger. They'll put out a "hit" on you. This is no joke. They play hardball in Russia.

I can't honestly say if the mafia is involved or not, but the reason it costs $60 to $80 to go from one terminal to the other is that people will pay that much. You can, probably, negotiate for a better price if you do things right. Or, you can call ahead and order a taxi and the rate will be predetermined and much less. Or, you could take the bus. It runs every 20 or so minutes and is free if you have an airline ticket. That's really the point about business and basic survival in Russia.

If you plan well, know what you are doing and whom to talk to, and have friends that you can trust that will help you, you can make things work. But nowhere is it more true than in Russia that a fool and his money are soon parted. Without a proper plan and connections, you will run into problems and everything will be more expensive.

Edited December 30, 2010 by SMR

[visaveteran 1]

Seriously...

I can't honestly say if the mafia is involved or not, but the reason it costs $60 to $80 to go from one terminal to the other is that people will pay that much. You can, probably, negotiate for a better price if you do things right. Or, you can call ahead and order a taxi and the rate will be predetermined and much less. Or, you could take the bus. It runs every 20 or so minutes and is free if you have an airline ticket. That's really the point about business and basic survival in Russia.

If you plan well, know what you are doing and whom to talk to, and have friends that you can trust that will help you, you can make things work. But nowhere is it more true than in Russia that a fool and his money are soon parted. Without a proper plan and connections, you will run into problems and everything will be more expensive.

[ggg12 0]

In some ways it's the real deal, in some ways it's overblown. But honestly, if you're serious about starting a business in Russia, you need connections, an understanding of the situation, and people that you can trust. If you have those things, great, go for it. But ask them about the situation with the government, mafia, and such. People on this forum are not going to be able to give you serious help or accurate advice about Russia in 2010 (maybe a couple people here can, but most can't and how will you know who is who).

If you plan well, know what you are doing and whom to talk to, and have friends that you can trust that will help you, you can make things work. But nowhere is it more true than in Russia that a fool and his money are soon parted. Without a proper plan and connections, you will run into problems and everything will be more expensive.

What kind of connections? I do have a family member with mafia connections here in the states if that's what you mean but I definitely don't have intentions to break any laws so that's not really something I want to get involved in.

Edited December 30, 2010 by ggg12

[visaveteran 1]

I can't honestly say if the mafia is involved or not, but the reason it costs $60 to $80 to go from one terminal to the other is that people will pay that much. You can, probably, negotiate for a better price if you do things right. Or, you can call ahead and order a taxi and the rate will be predetermined and much less. Or, you could take the bus. It runs every 20 or so minutes and is free if you have an airline ticket. That's really the point about business and basic survival in Russia.

If you plan well, know what you are doing and whom to talk to, and have friends that you can trust that will help you, you can make things work. But nowhere is it more true than in Russia that a fool and his money are soon parted. Without a proper plan and connections, you will run into problems and everything will be more expensive.

I said the taxi business is run by the "mafia." I stand by that. Unless my wife and other Russians are liars, the airport taxi business is a monopoly run by what we call the mafia. They certainly prey on Americans and other supposedly wealthy non Russian travelers. So Americans pay the high fares because there is no real negotiating and no competition concerning taxis. They (the taxi hawkers) may let you think you can negotiate. They'll start at $80 and let you "negotiate" for $60. Unless you're traveling with a Russian who can work the system better, you pay up.

I know that when I reach Russia after 10 hours flying in coach and fighting through passport control, I'm not really up for fighting the taxi system too. I may even be too tired to mess with alternatives to a taxi. Of course, there are other connecting options and, yes, you can use the Aeroflot bus or local ones if you have the time to wait and there's room. Often, connecting flights don't give you that option. Or it's too much hassle to wrestle all your luggage onto a crowded bus and no one will help you. The traffic between the two terminals is often gridlocked, so predicting how much time you need to plan for getting from point A to point B is not easy. I have used the Aeroflot bus when I had the time and was not exhausted. I will not use the local buses...too crazy.

Doing things right? Not sure what that means. Please let me know how to "do things right" so I can save some money next time.

[SMR 368]

What kind of connections? I do have a family member with mafia connections here in the states if that's what you mean but I definitely don't have intentions to break any laws so that's not really something I want to get involved in.

I can't say exactly or comprehensively, but an accountant that you can trust is one, for starters. You'll probably need connections to notaries and bankers, although if you have the cash that's not such a big deal since these services are explicitly for sale. Depending on what type of business you are running, you'll probably need connections to get permits and licenses on a timely and economical basis. You'll need someone who knows about real estate in the local market. In reality, none of these things are unique to Russia. You'll need these sorts of things in any country where you want to do business. They're just a lot easier to come by if you are a native.

And on the more seedy side of things and more specific to Russia, you'll need a way to keep the mafia and cops off your back (the two are surprisingly closely connected in some instances). A family member with Mafia connections is good even if you don't plan on doing something illegal.

Like I said, I'm by no means an expert on doing business in Russia. But if you want to do it, you'll need people you can trust to help you. In general, my advice would be that if you do end up with the type of funds you are talking about, don't rush into anything. Spend some time in Russia getting to know things and people before you commit any significant amount of cash to anything. You'll be able to live off the interest from the cash that you have (probably indefinitely if you're careful).

I said the taxi business is run by the "mafia." I stand by that. Unless my wife and other Russians are liars, the airport taxi business is a monopoly run by what we call the mafia. They certainly prey on Americans and other supposedly wealthy non Russian travelers. So Americans pay the high fares because there is no real negotiating and no competition concerning taxis. They (the taxi hawkers) may let you think you can negotiate. They'll start at $80 and let you "negotiate" for $60. Unless you're traveling with a Russian who can work the system better, you pay up.

I know that when I reach Russia after 10 hours flying in coach and fighting through passport control, I'm not really up for fighting the taxi system too. I may even be too tired to mess with alternatives to a taxi. Of course, there are other connecting options and, yes, you can use the Aeroflot bus or local ones if you have the time to wait and there's room. Often, connecting flights don't give you that option. Or it's too much hassle to wrestle all your luggage onto a crowded bus and no one will help you. The traffic between the two terminals is often gridlocked, so predicting how much time you need to plan for getting from point A to point B is not easy. I have used the Aeroflot bus when I had the time and was not exhausted. I will not use the local buses...too crazy.

I never denied your claim that the airport taxis are run by the mafia. I would certainly believe that they are. All the same, you can call a taxi company to send a car to meet you and the fare will be significantly less than if you just try to hire a driver on the spot at the airport (It's the same flying into the international terminal at JFK). And you can take the bus. Like in any big city, if you arrive without a plan of where you are going and what you are going to do and how you are going to get there, things are going to get expensive pretty quickly. It's worse in Moscow than some other cities. But a little planning and foresight go a long way.

As far as gridlock, it's a reality in many major cities and it affects taxis as well as buses so I don't see it as really germane to the discussion.

Doing things right? Not sure what that means. Please let me know how to "do things right" so I can save some money next time.

I'm trying to figure out where I used the phrase "do things right." I don't see it but if I did use it, I was unclear, so let me clarify. I mean planning ahead, understanding the rules, both written and unwritten, and in general not being taken for a ride. I think a lot of what you are saying is true and I'm really not trying to argue with you except on the point that it is inevitable and unique to Russia. If you arrive in a foreign country with lots of money but no plan you will probably quickly lose said money or at least spend it more quickly than you would if you had a plan and understood the local situation.

I'm not saying this because I think that people who spend $80 for a taxi are stupid. I have definitely been taken for a ride a few times in Russia (by taxi drivers, swindlers, muggers, corrupt officials, bum police, and others). And although I try my best to avoid it, it may happen again. But instead of blaming the country and assuming it was unavoidable, I realize how I can avoid similar situations in the future. ####### happens and a lot of it happens in Russia. But it's not inevitable.

Edited December 30, 2010 by SMR

[visaveteran 1]

As far as gridlock, it's a reality in many major cities and it affects taxis as well as buses so I don't see it as really germane to the discussion.

I'm trying to figure out where I used the phrase "do things right." I don't see it but if I did use it, I was unclear, so let me clarify. I mean planning ahead, understanding the rules, both written and unwritten, and in general not being taken for a ride. I think a lot of what you are saying is true and I'm really not trying to argue with you except on the point that it is inevitable and unique to Russia. If you arrive in a foreign country with lots of money but no plan you will probably quickly lose said money or at least spend it more quickly than you would if you had a plan and understood the local situation.

I'm not saying this because I think that people who spend $80 for a taxi are stupid. I have definitely been taken for a ride a few times in Russia (by taxi drivers, swindlers, muggers, corrupt officials, bum police, and others). And although I try my best to avoid it, it may happen again. But instead of blaming the country and assuming it was unavoidable, I realize how I can avoid similar situations in the future. ####### happens and a lot of it happens in Russia. But it's not inevitable.

I think we agree more than disagree.

Here's the quote I referred to: "You can, probably, negotiate for a better price if you do things right."

I do attempt to control the variables effecting my trips to Russia or elsewhere as far as I can. But some variables are independent variables for which I have no control. Like delayed flights. Like when my flight actually takes off. Like the time between connecting flights. Like the lines for passport control. Like the time interval between connecting buses. Like whether a bus is full or not.

Calling ahead for a taxi sounds like a good idea except how in the world will I know when to tell him to meet me? What if the flight gets delayed? What if the passport control is extra slow? What if my luggage gets lost, as it has several times?

Your idea is a "perfect world" idea but will a Russian taxi really wait more than a 15 or 20 minutes before leaving? What are the odds I can meet this taxi in a reasonable span of time? I would also have to make an international call which costs money and hope the person who answers speaks English. If he understands I'm an American, I wonder how great the rate will be? I know of little else as unpredictable as air travel...especially international travel. If you tell me you called ahead for a taxi and it worked out, I'll believe you...but it sounds very difficult to me.

[Neonred 3,639]

I think we agree more than disagree.

Here's the quote I referred to: "You can, probably, negotiate for a better price if you do things right."

I do attempt to control the variables effecting my trips to Russia or elsewhere as far as I can. But some variables are independent variables for which I have no control. Like delayed flights. Like when my flight actually takes off. Like the time between connecting flights. Like the lines for passport control. Like the time interval between connecting buses. Like whether a bus is full or not.

Calling ahead for a taxi sounds like a good idea except how in the world will I know when to tell him to meet me? What if the flight gets delayed? What if the passport control is extra slow? What if my luggage gets lost, as it has several times?

Your idea is a "perfect world" idea but will a Russian taxi really wait more than a 15 or 20 minutes before leaving? What are the odds I can meet this taxi in a reasonable span of time? I would also have to make an international call which costs money and hope the person who answers speaks English. If he understands I'm an American, I wonder how great the rate will be? I know of little else as unpredictable as air travel...especially international travel. If you tell me you called ahead for a taxi and it worked out, I'll believe you...but it sounds very difficult to me.

I did the pre-booked taxi the first couple of times I visited Russia with great success. Saved at least half of the mafia taxi price. Then I discovered the free Aeroflot bus and used that several times but have also negotiated a great fare too.

Not an issue any more with the new terminal setup at SVO.

[visaveteran 1]

I did the pre-booked taxi the first couple of times I visited Russia with great success. Saved at least half of the mafia taxi price. Then I discovered the free Aeroflot bus and used that several times but have also negotiated a great fare too.

Not an issue any more with the new terminal setup at SVO.

OK...I'm a believer. You can defeat the evil, mafia, SVO taxi drivers. I will cease and desist my counter-argument.

I would like more data on how it gets pulled off. What's the trick to getting a great fare? I've tried "to play hard to get" but they don't budge. I've walked away. I've countered with low ball fare offers. I've yet to win even a little ground. Only getting $80 down to $60 which anyone can get. That's just a silly game they play.

I think this is the first conversation I can remember where anyone has even mentioned pre-booking a taxi at SVO. I never thought a taxi would wait for a fare coming from the US. So many opportunities to be very late on arrival. Live and learn.

I would like more helpful data...name of taxi company(ies), phones, web sites, do I need to speak Russian? I'd hate to just use Google and randomly choose a company.

Now, if you really want to get upset about crazy taxis fares, visit Turkish Cyprus. Off the scales. No real bus system either. Only crappy minivans. I never could figure out the schedules...it seemed pretty hit or miss.

Haven't used Terminal D yet but glad it has made life easier. Maybe the taxi issue is moot unless you're heading into Moscow or another nearby town?

Edited December 30, 2010 by visaveteran