Red Flags K1 Visa- Vietnam Forum

[logframe 0]

Hello, I have been browsing this forum for about a month and find it very helpful. Our NOA2 was just approved on 11/30/10 and the NVC told me that the paperwork is on its way to HCMC as of 12/17/10. Although I believe our case to be a strong and well-documented one, I nonetheless want to ask the forum members what we should look for vis-a-vis the actual interview. Let me explain our relationship (sorry if it's a bit lengthy):

1. I am a recently-divorced American male, aged 44 with 3 kids (they live about 1 mile from me with my ex-wife [we have joint legal custody], althouogh I see them several days per week). I lived in Hanoi for 3 1/2 years from 2005-2008. I was married from Sept 1995 until June 2010.

2. My fiance's name is Tho. She is 36, divorced in 2005, has a 13-year old son, speaks fluent English, and has worked for numerous international NGOs (some of whom are based in the USA) and private companies. Tho has no family or connections in the USA. Tho owns her own home in Hanoi, has some money, and would be considered middle-class, as I am here.

3. Tho and I met because we worked for the same organization in Hanoi. We were colleagues, then friends, then lovers beginning in January 2008. I had to return to Washington DC to care for a sick relative in July 2008.

4. Tho and I continued to correspond after I left Hanoi. Since my work often took me to Asia, we met in Bangkok in Nov 08, Jan 09 (2 times), March 09, and May 09 (each trip was approximately 3-4 days). Once we knew we wanted to be together, I visited her in Hanoi in July 2009. We again met in Bangkok in Sept 2009. I made subsequent trips to Hanoi in Jan/March/June 2010 and met her family each time. I moved out of my house (ie. separated from my wife in January 2010) and my divorce was finalized in June 2010. Tho and I also traveled to France and Italy in September 2010 for 10 days. We have over 1,000 pages of emails, an equal number of pages of skype/yahoo chats, photos from several of the trips in 2010, and some other mementos. I will spend 9 days in Hanoi in Jan/Feb 2011 during Tet and we will hold a Dinh Hon ceremony at a nice hotel in Hanoi. We have had a relationship now for a bit more than 3 years.

My question is: what are the red-flags? I imagine that since my divorce was finalized on June 7, 2010 (the I-129F was received by USCIS on July 16, 2010, so there was little time between the finalization of the divorce and the submission of the I-129F) that I need to address that, but I'm not sure how to do that. For the last 6 months of 2008 and most of 2009 Tho and I did not really think it was possible to be together. Nonetheless, we are. We only talked about marrying in the past 12-14 months, even though we had seen each other many times prior to that. We just thought that the fact of distance, and the time it took for my divorce to be final, would prevent us from a life together. Fortunately we overcame that. I would appreciate hearing from you about how to approach this situation and how best to prepare. Much of our evidence is prior to my divorce, although 1 Hanoi trip, the trip to Italy/France, and my upcoming trip to Hanoi for the Dinh Hon ceremony occurred post-divorce.

Best Regards and Best Wishes to those K-1 applicants...............Greg

[ScottThuy 140]

Similar to our case in a way. The co will likely wonder why so fast after the divorce file for k1 and add to that the perception of someone who carried on a relationship and a marriage at same time, no dam hoi before filing k1, it may seem like a relationship for immigration to the co. Don't be surprised if they decide to investigate things and call your ex to ask some questions about your current relationship.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I agree with Scott. You've got plenty of relationship evidence, but the bulk of it was before you were divorced. After that, it looks like you rushed through the divorce and petition filing. She may not get a chance to explain about the engagement ceremony at the interview. The CO might suspect you set aside your marriage temporarily to help a friend immigrate. They may look closely at the circumstances surrounding your divorce, and especially at your current relationship with your ex-wife.

There's not much you can do to address this stuff at the interview. If you end up in AP then they will probably call your ex-wife, as Scott mentioned. You should probably talk to your ex-wife about this. If she's devious and looking for a little revenge then she could easily shoot this down with a comment like "Greg told me it would only be about a year and then we'd be together again".

[logframe 0]

I agree with Scott. You've got plenty of relationship evidence, but the bulk of it was before you were divorced. After that, it looks like you rushed through the divorce and petition filing. She may not get a chance to explain about the engagement ceremony at the interview. The CO might suspect you set aside your marriage temporarily to help a friend immigrate. They may look closely at the circumstances surrounding your divorce, and especially at your current relationship with your ex-wife.

There's not much you can do to address this stuff at the interview. If you end up in AP then they will probably call your ex-wife, as Scott mentioned. You should probably talk to your ex-wife about this. If she's devious and looking for a little revenge then she could easily shoot this down with a comment like "Greg told me it would only be about a year and then we'd be together again".

THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY. I VERY MUCH ADMIRE YOUR POSTS. LET ME TELL YOU A BIT MORE. I ARRIVED BACK IN THE USA CRESTFALLEN AT MISSING THO. I TOLD THO THAT IF WE FEEL THE SAME WAY ONE YEAR HENCE (JULY 2009) THAT I WOULD TELL MY WIFE WHAT HAPPENED. WELL, I TOLD MY WIFE. WE ATTENDED 2 DIFFERENT COUNSELING SESSIONS (ONE COURSE AS 8 WEEKS LONG AND THE OTHER WAS A WEEKEND "SAVE OUR MARRIAGE" WORKSHOP IN WHICH WE PAID $3,000). I FOUND OUT SUBSUQUENTLY THAT MY WIFE HAD BEEN HAVING AN AFFAIR BEFORE SHE KNEW ABOUT MY AFFAIR. NEVERTHELESS, WE STRUGGLED, THEN DECIDED TO DIVORCED. I FILED IMMEDIATELY AFTER MY DIVORCE WAS FINALIZED BECAUSE I DID NOT WANT TO WAIT EVEN LONGER TO BE WITH THO. LET ME PLAY "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE" HERE. IF MY EX-WIFE THOUGHT I WAS TRYING TO GET THO HERE FOR IMMIGRATION PURPOSES, THEN WHY THE 3 TRIPS TO HANOI IN 2010? WHY THE TRIP TO ITALY AND FRANCE JUST 3 MONTHS AGO TO BE WITH THO? IF THE HCMC CONSULATE CALLED MY EX-WIFE, SHE WOULD SIMPLY BE BITTER OVER THE DIVORCE BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T WANT IT DESPITE HER AFFAIR. SHE WOULD NOT THINK I WOULD WANT THO HERE. AFTER ALL, I LEFT MY HOME, SPENT A LOT OF MONEY LIVING ON MY OWN AND TRAVELING TO SEE WITH THO. HONESTLY, I THINK MY EX-WIFE WOULD DO WHAT SHE COULD TO END MY RELATIONSHIP WITH THO. HOWEVER, MY EX-WIFE EMAILED TO THO SEVERAL TIMES, SOMETIMES BELLIGERENT, SOMETIMES QUITE KIND, TO SAY THAT, ALTHOUGH SHE KNEW THO AND I LOVED EACH OTHER, FOR THO TO PLEASE LEAVE ME (IE. GREG). I THOUGHT IN MY TIMELINE I WOULD MENTION ALL OF THIS. WHAT DO YOU THINK? THO HAS NO REASON TO IMMIGRATE. SHE HAS A GOOD JOB, AND HER FAMILY IN HANOI. SHE HAS NO FAMILY HERE IN THE USA. SHE HAS A GOOD JOB IN HANOI, BUT HER SITUATION HERE WOULD BE UNCERTAIN. SINCE MY DIVORCE WE STILL HAVE 3 TRIPS: 2 TO HANOI AND 1 TO EUROPE. WE WILL HAVE THE DINH HON CEREMONY BEFORE THO'S INTERVIEW; THEREFORE, SHE WILL HAVE THAT EVIDENCE. GREG

[logframe 0]

Thanks Everyone! The reason I filed immediately after the divorce was the strong desire to get the K-1 process going as quickly as possible. My ex-wife would not even think that I did this for immigration purposes. I have emails from my ex-wife to my fiance' (girlfriend at the time) telling her that she (my ex-wife) knows I love her (Tho, my fiance'), but that she (Tho) should leave me. Also, if I was trying to allow Tho to immigrate to the USA, why would I spend 10 days in Italy/France with Tho? Why go to meet her family and have a Dinh Hon party? I don't know how a CO could deal with that or think there was any chicanery involved.

Greg

[Sayha or bust. 71]

You sound like a smart guy. You have Red flags, you address them like you are here. You have plenty of evidence and trips. It is what it is. You will be with her one day stateside. Best of luck.

[ScottThuy 140]

There was no BS when it came to Thuys petition.. but they still had us in AP for 8 months after the interview and they called my ex, her ex, her mom , her and me to ask a list of questions... most of the calls all happened at the same time to keep anyone from letting someone else know it was coming... the call came around 1130 pm and they questioned me for over a half hour.. kept Thuy on the line for over an hour... oh yeah and then there was the guys that showed up at her house asking neighbors questions about her and us...

When it comes to the interview and evidence, they often dont look at what is brought to the interview or at best they just flip through some things.. They usually have a decision of sorts made before they sit down at the interview... many have said the pink was waiting when it started and others have said a blue was already prepared.. this is why many here say frontloading is a big deal..

when you ask if it was just to immigrate then why would I/we do #$%^.. Those that are doing this for immigration only are willing to do anything they can to get past the CO... including trips, ceremonies and anything else that could help...

The CO's IMO seem to have a sort of expected time frame/cultural norm and evolution of relationship that they look for and anything outside of that they look at funny... At this stage there isnt alot that can be done other than trying to get evidence ready should they accept it and if the blue comes, have plenty ready to submit when the opportunity comes... dont be surprised if they give her a blue or even a second blue slip..

I seperated in January 09 and finalized my and Thuys divorces 4 or 5 months later.. we filed as soon as we could (june) and that threw red flags in our case.. we had the formal Dam hoi etc but that was after I sent the K1 and IMO most of the time anything that happens after the initial filing isnt looked at when they make the decision at the interview...

I dont want to sound gloom and doom.. it isnt that bad.. just expect a hurdle or two and have everything you can have ready for them if the opportunity arises... remember that its not quantity its quality when it comes to submitting evidence... have everything as well organized as possible... it will likely be April or May or so before she gets the interview the way things are going lately.. so there is time to get things together...

[James and Cynthia 70]

There was no BS when it came to Thuys petition.. but they still had us in AP for 8 months after the interview and they called my ex, her ex, her mom , her and me to ask a list of questions... most of the calls all happened at the same time to keep anyone from letting someone else know it was coming... the call came around 1130 pm and they questioned me for over a half hour.. kept Thuy on the line for over an hour... oh yeah and then there was the guys that showed up at her house asking neighbors questions about her and us...

When it comes to the interview and evidence, they often dont look at what is brought to the interview or at best they just flip through some things.. They usually have a decision of sorts made before they sit down at the interview... many have said the pink was waiting when it started and others have said a blue was already prepared.. this is why many here say frontloading is a big deal..

when you ask if it was just to immigrate then why would I/we do #$%^.. Those that are doing this for immigration only are willing to do anything they can to get past the CO... including trips, ceremonies and anything else that could help...

The CO's IMO seem to have a sort of expected time frame/cultural norm and evolution of relationship that they look for and anything outside of that they look at funny... At this stage there isnt alot that can be done other than trying to get evidence ready should they accept it and if the blue comes, have plenty ready to submit when the opportunity comes... dont be surprised if they give her a blue or even a second blue slip..

I seperated in January 09 and finalized my and Thuys divorces 4 or 5 months later.. we filed as soon as we could (june) and that threw red flags in our case.. we had the formal Dam hoi etc but that was after I sent the K1 and IMO most of the time anything that happens after the initial filing isnt looked at when they make the decision at the interview...

I dont want to sound gloom and doom.. it isnt that bad.. just expect a hurdle or two and have everything you can have ready for them if the opportunity arises... remember that its not quantity its quality when it comes to submitting evidence... have everything as well organized as possible... it will likely be April or May or so before she gets the interview the way things are going lately.. so there is time to get things together...

Wow. This is not good news for me. I will hate to break this kind of news to my fiancee. We have both been waiting for so long.

I met my fiancee in the Philippines in Aug. 2008, separated from my wife in america in Feb. 2009, filed for divorce in April 2009, but wasn't able to get the divorce final until July 2010. I filed for K-1 petition for my fiancee in Sept 2010, 2 months after my divorce was signed.

In the last two years, I saw my fiancee in March 2010, before the divorce was final, and again in Nov 2010, after the divorce was final. We were really hoping to get NOA2 in Feb and have her here in american by April 2011. But now you're making me think we would be very lucky if it went smoothly like that.

Would preparing a letter for my fiancee's interview help in this situation? What about pointing out in the divorce judgment where it says the date I separated from my ex wife?

-James

[luckytxn 2,264]

Wow. This is not good news for me. I will hate to break this kind of news to my fiancee. We have both been waiting for so long.

I met my fiancee in the Philippines in Aug. 2008, separated from my wife in america in Feb. 2009, filed for divorce in April 2009, but wasn't able to get the divorce final until July 2010. I filed for K-1 petition for my fiancee in Sept 2010, 2 months after my divorce was signed.

In the last two years, I saw my fiancee in March 2010, before the divorce was final, and again in Nov 2010, after the divorce was final. We were really hoping to get NOA2 in Feb and have her here in american by April 2011. But now you're making me think we would be very lucky if it went smoothly like that.

Would preparing a letter for my fiancee's interview help in this situation? What about pointing out in the divorce judgment where it says the date I separated from my ex wife?

-James

You should ask these things in the proper forum in Philippines section. They can tell you more about what they look for at that consulate. Here at the HCMC consulate they tend to look hard at recently divorced couples that then try to get a visa. Years ago there was a fraud ring on the west coast (Actually two separate rings) that was exposed and several were married couples that divorced and married a VN person for immigration purposes and after the initial green card they divorced and the original couple remarried. Even though this happened years ago they still look at most divorce and try for visa with suspicion. I even had my friend wait a bit and let his divorce be history for a bit to help allay suspicion.

Each separate consulate/embassy has their own standards and protocols they go by.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Hello, I have been browsing this forum for about a month and find it very helpful. Our NOA2 was just approved on 11/30/10 and the NVC told me that the paperwork is on its way to HCMC as of 12/17/10. Although I believe our case to be a strong and well-documented one, I nonetheless want to ask the forum members what we should look for vis-a-vis the actual interview. Let me explain our relationship (sorry if it's a bit lengthy):

1. I am a recently-divorced American male, aged 44 with 3 kids (they live about 1 mile from me with my ex-wife [we have joint legal custody], althouogh I see them several days per week). I lived in Hanoi for 3 1/2 years from 2005-2008. I was married from Sept 1995 until June 2010.

2. My fiance's name is Tho. She is 36, divorced in 2005, has a 13-year old son, speaks fluent English, and has worked for numerous international NGOs (some of whom are based in the USA) and private companies. Tho has no family or connections in the USA. Tho owns her own home in Hanoi, has some money, and would be considered middle-class, as I am here.

3. Tho and I met because we worked for the same organization in Hanoi. We were colleagues, then friends, then lovers beginning in January 2008. I had to return to Washington DC to care for a sick relative in July 2008.

4. Tho and I continued to correspond after I left Hanoi. Since my work often took me to Asia, we met in Bangkok in Nov 08, Jan 09 (2 times), March 09, and May 09 (each trip was approximately 3-4 days). Once we knew we wanted to be together, I visited her in Hanoi in July 2009. We again met in Bangkok in Sept 2009. I made subsequent trips to Hanoi in Jan/March/June 2010 and met her family each time. I moved out of my house (ie. separated from my wife in January 2010) and my divorce was finalized in June 2010. Tho and I also traveled to France and Italy in September 2010 for 10 days. We have over 1,000 pages of emails, an equal number of pages of skype/yahoo chats, photos from several of the trips in 2010, and some other mementos. I will spend 9 days in Hanoi in Jan/Feb 2011 during Tet and we will hold a Dinh Hon ceremony at a nice hotel in Hanoi. We have had a relationship now for a bit more than 3 years.

My question is: what are the red-flags? I imagine that since my divorce was finalized on June 7, 2010 (the I-129F was received by USCIS on July 16, 2010, so there was little time between the finalization of the divorce and the submission of the I-129F) that I need to address that, but I'm not sure how to do that. For the last 6 months of 2008 and most of 2009 Tho and I did not really think it was possible to be together. Nonetheless, we are. We only talked about marrying in the past 12-14 months, even though we had seen each other many times prior to that. We just thought that the fact of distance, and the time it took for my divorce to be final, would prevent us from a life together. Fortunately we overcame that. I would appreciate hearing from you about how to approach this situation and how best to prepare. Much of our evidence is prior to my divorce, although 1 Hanoi trip, the trip to Italy/France, and my upcoming trip to Hanoi for the Dinh Hon ceremony occurred post-divorce.

Best Regards and Best Wishes to those K-1 applicants...............Greg

You are in a possible hard time but you do have a lot of ongoing relationship proof it seems and that will help. They will pretty much look hard at your recent and very quick try for a visa. Also they will be asking about her travel to Bangkok and how long she has stayed there before you show up and if she stayed after you left.

It makes no difference at how you view this process. It is how it is viewed by the CO at the consulate that matters. No need to try to convince us that you are legit. The best thing is to keep an ongoing proof of relationship and make sure all your finances are in order. They will want to see your bank statement for the past year. Make sure the ex wife will not throw a monkey wrench in the works as they will in all likelihood be talking to her. Get a 10 year residence letter ready as they will probably want that. Make sure that you list all residences for the last 10 years and any and all who lived there during the times you did. Also she will need permission from the ex husband to get a visa for her kid to immigrate and they will definitely want to know where he is living and how to contact him.

Sometimes being impatient is not a good thing. Good luck and God bless.

[logframe 0]

You are in a possible hard time but you do have a lot of ongoing relationship proof it seems and that will help. They will pretty much look hard at your recent and very quick try for a visa. Also they will be asking about her travel to Bangkok and how long she has stayed there before you show up and if she stayed after you left.

It makes no difference at how you view this process. It is how it is viewed by the CO at the consulate that matters. No need to try to convince us that you are legit. The best thing is to keep an ongoing proof of relationship and make sure all your finances are in order. They will want to see your bank statement for the past year. Make sure the ex wife will not throw a monkey wrench in the works as they will in all likelihood be talking to her. Get a 10 year residence letter ready as they will probably want that. Make sure that you list all residences for the last 10 years and any and all who lived there during the times you did. Also she will need permission from the ex husband to get a visa for her kid to immigrate and they will definitely want to know where he is living and how to contact him.

Sometimes being impatient is not a good thing. Good luck and God bless.

THANKS FOR THE ADVICE. I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS: IS A LETTER OF RESIDENCE SOMETHING FORMAL, OR JUST SOMETHING I CAN WRITE MYSELF? (AND DOES IT NEED TO BE NOTORIZED?). QUITE FRANKLY, WE APPLIED FOR THE K-1 BECAUSE "WHY WAIT?". SECONDLY, WE HAVE BEEN APART MORE THAN 2 YEARS AND DIDN'T WANT TO SPEND MORE TIME WAITING. IF THEY TALK WITH MY WIFE, ALL SHE WOULD SAY IS THAT SHE IS VERY ANGRY, BUT SHE WOULD NEVER SAY THAT MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY FIANCE' IS FOR IMMIGRATION PURPOSES. MAY I ASK YOU WHY YOUR CASE TOOK SO LONG UNTIL APPROVAL?

[Dau Que 6]

So you were seeing someone while BEING married! and she (the new one) wouldn't mind?

I'll be the neutral outsider and bring you the truth/reality: she's using you to bring her son to the US for a better education while he's still young. Classic love story #1 right there in the book: middle age lady with a teenager wanna immigrate to the States.

You've made a marital mistake recently. Don't attempt to rush things and make another one again. You do have your own children to support.

[ScottThuy 140]

THANKS FOR THE ADVICE. I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS: IS A LETTER OF RESIDENCE SOMETHING FORMAL, OR JUST SOMETHING I CAN WRITE MYSELF? (AND DOES IT NEED TO BE NOTORIZED?). QUITE FRANKLY, WE APPLIED FOR THE K-1 BECAUSE "WHY WAIT?". SECONDLY, WE HAVE BEEN APART MORE THAN 2 YEARS AND DIDN'T WANT TO SPEND MORE TIME WAITING. IF THEY TALK WITH MY WIFE, ALL SHE WOULD SAY IS THAT SHE IS VERY ANGRY, BUT SHE WOULD NEVER SAY THAT MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY FIANCE' IS FOR IMMIGRATION PURPOSES. MAY I ASK YOU WHY YOUR CASE TOOK SO LONG UNTIL APPROVAL?

its not really formal.. just a statement/list of where you lived, what dates and with who.. you include a statement at the end saying something to the effect of the information provided above is accurate and true .. dated signed... then you take it to your bank and have them notarize your signature...

Actually Curtis was done in a relatively short period of time for HCMC.. less than 8 months from beginning to end... most people would say why wait, but those that understand how HCMC does things know that in some cases it is better to hold off filing a little bit to save months or years for the decision to be made... yes I said years.. look at an example of what they can do to drag things out for a couple if they want.. What comes out of the mouth of a bitter woman can surprise you if the right opportunity presents itself... I know my ex didnt say "good for him I wish them the best" I got the "you no good MFer email" shortly after the call and we had been divorced for well over a year at that point...

[logframe 0]

its not really formal.. just a statement/list of where you lived, what dates and with who.. you include a statement at the end saying something to the effect of the information provided above is accurate and true .. dated signed... then you take it to your bank and have them notarize your signature...

Actually Curtis was done in a relatively short period of time for HCMC.. less than 8 months from beginning to end... most people would say why wait, but those that understand how HCMC does things know that in some cases it is better to hold off filing a little bit to save months or years for the decision to be made... yes I said years.. look at an example of what they can do to drag things out for a couple if they want.. What comes out of the mouth of a bitter woman can surprise you if the right opportunity presents itself... I know my ex didnt say "good for him I wish them the best" I got the "you no good MFer email" shortly after the call and we had been divorced for well over a year at that point...

Thanks for the advice. Does a letter of residence need to be notarized at a bank for a reason, or does it just need to be notarized (ie. anywhere there is a notary?). We have an attorney helping us and he did mention that HCMC is quite tough, but he thought our case was strong based on the length of the relationship, the numerous visits together, and volume of correspondence. You mentioned not having the Dam Hoi prior to the filing could be a problem, but for us, I only came to Hanoi about 3 weeks after my divorce was finalized. We couldn't do the party while we are in Europe, so we're doing it in early February, in advance of submission of Packet 3. Prior to my divorce, we didn't do a whole lot of research on the K-1, but we sure are now. By the way, who/what is "curtis"?

[ScottThuy 140]

Luckytxn is curtis.. the guy you responded to asking why it took him so long...

Most here dont use an atty so that is why I said bank as it is usually easiest... we had our Dam Hoi after we filed and it was an issue at the interview why we had it after we were engaged... possibly one of many reasons we were in AP so long... HCMC is quite unique when it comes to how they do things and it can be disasterous if the atty has no experience with HCMC... the paralegal can do the notarization for you, but it will cost you and the bank for me is always free... ...