CALLING THEM ISLAMIC FASCISTS CAN'T HELP

[Henia 11]

After 9/11, President Bush described our fight against terrorism as a "crusade" - a statement he later retracted. In his first press conference after the recently thwarted terrorist plot to blow up planes flying from Britain to the United States, the president said, "This nation is at war with Islamic fascists."

The phrase "Islamic fascists" has drawn the ire of the American Muslim community. We use "Islamic ethics" to mean ethics based on Islamic teachings that guide our behavior. Similarly, Islamic art draws its inspiration from Islamic teachings that discourage certain types of art (immodest imagery or certain life forms). When the president uses "Islamic fascists," it conveys that fascism is rooted in or inspired by Islam. This is the way the Muslims see it, regardless of what Bush may claim he really means.

Bush earlier said that Islam is a religion of peace. Now, caving in to extreme right-wing pressure, he's equated the religion of peace with the ugliness of fascism. Such rhetoric contributes to fear of and backlash against American Muslims. A recent Gallup poll shows four out of 10 Americans feeling "prejudiced" against Muslims.

Prejudice against Muslims allowed our politicians to whip up a frenzy in rejecting the proposal of a Dubai firm to operate U.S. ports. Conservative columnist David Brooks wrote, "But it is certain that the xenophobic hysteria will come back to harm the United States. ... (The Mideast) is a region in the midst of traumatic democratic change. The strongest argument the fundamentalists have is that they are engaged in a holy war against the racist West, which imposes one set of harsh rules on Arabs and another set of rules on everybody else. Now comes a group of politicians to prove them gloriously right."

Scholarly writings are delving deeper into the roots of suicide terrorism. Robert Pape, in his book "Dying to Win," uses over two decades of data to show the paucity of connection between suicide terrorism and any religion. . .

In these trying times it is important that our nation stand united. Muslims form an important part of the fabric of America. We are law-abiding citizens, dedicated to the protection of our national security. We should not be singled out because of our faith.

Nor should our faith be equated with the evils of terrorism or fascism. We have no control over the actions of shadowy terrorist groups. But as taxpayers we certainly have a right to petition and expect our government to do everything in its power to protect us, including rejecting counterproductive rhetoric.

[Risto 0]

After 9/11, President Bush described our fight against terrorism as a "crusade" - a statement he later retracted. In his first press conference after the recently thwarted terrorist plot to blow up planes flying from Britain to the United States, the president said, "This nation is at war with Islamic fascists."

It's what they are !

[GaryC 7]

Main Entry: fas·cism

Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-

Function: noun

Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality -- J. W. Aldridge>

Since the terrorist are almost all Islamic then it is correct to refer to them as Islamic. By the definition of Facism I would say that also decribes the terrorists. So to use the term Islamic Fascists is very descriptive. That is to say Bush is not calling all Islamics Fascists, only the ones that want to take over the world and impose their idea of government and law on the rest of us.

Sorry, if the shoe fits.

[Jersey Girl 2]

Henia, it's indeed a shame that genuinely good people are lumped in with the bad. But Americans believe in a separation between Church and State. So it's hard for us to imagine that someone's religion is also their politics.

In a free democracy, all religions are permitted. Except ones that threaten the State, which is the necessary underpinning of freedom. If there's a general mistrust of Islamic people, it's because extremists have been attacking our nation in the name of God.

How can Americans distinguish good Muslims from bad? We can't. They have to do it for us. Just as good Christians will distance themselves from radical cults. But we see few good Muslims willing to do this in meaningful ways. Probably because their politics (or is it religion?) doesn't allow it.

[vartan 0]

When the president uses "Islamic fascists," it conveys that fascism is rooted in or inspired by Islam.

No .. he specifically said ISLAMIC FASCISTS... NOT ISLAM

Nor should our faith be equated with the evils of terrorism or fascism.

ALL the people that tried to blow up our planes... ALL the people that blew up the trains in UK, ALL the people that brought the planes into the WTC claimed to be islamic..

SORRY .. but if Islamic people do not want to be tied to these terrorists then they need to help us do something about it. There are bad buddists.. there are bad christians.. there is bad everyone. But all these terrorists are doing it for "Islam" so they say.

You and I and the world knows that Bush was not calling all Islamic people Fascists. Geez .. and they say the US people are being overly critical against Muslims..

We should not be singled out because of our faith.

You aren't but as we see in the UK .. US born citizens are trying to kill innocent people for ISLAM too .. we ALL need to stand up against these people for our freedoms.. muslims, christians .. everyone. We all have something we can do to stop this.. and until these Jihadists are gone, they will forgive tie themselves to Islam.... UNLESS... this islam can renounce these people? .. Serious question .. can't the muslim society renounce these extremists.. ?

[ajames79 0]

Main Entry: fas·cism

Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-

Function: noun

Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality -- J. W. Aldridge>

Since the terrorist are almost all Islamic then it is correct to refer to them as Islamic. By the definition of Facism I would say that also decribes the terrorists. So to use the term Islamic Fascists is very descriptive. That is to say Bush is not calling all Islamics Fascists, only the ones that want to take over the world and impose their idea of government and law on the rest of us.

Sorry, if the shoe fits.

agreed.

Henia, it's indeed a shame that genuinely good people are lumped in with the bad. But Americans believe in a separation between Church and State. So it's hard for us to imagine that someone's religion is also their politics.

In a free democracy, all religions are permitted. Except ones that threaten the State, which is the necessary underpinning of freedom. If there's a general mistrust of Islamic people, it's because extremists have been attacking our nation in the name of God.

How can Americans distinguish good Muslims from bad? We can't. They have to do it for us. Just as good Christians will distance themselves from radical cults. But we see few good Muslims willing to do this in meaningful ways. Probably because their politics (or is it religion?) doesn't allow it.

agreed.

When the president uses "Islamic fascists," it conveys that fascism is rooted in or inspired by Islam.

No .. he specifically said ISLAMIC FASCISTS... NOT ISLAM

Nor should our faith be equated with the evils of terrorism or fascism.

ALL the people that tried to blow up our planes... ALL the people that blew up the trains in UK, ALL the people that brought the planes into the WTC claimed to be islamic..

SORRY .. but if Islamic people do not want to be tied to these terrorists then they need to help us do something about it. There are bad buddists.. there are bad christians.. there is bad everyone. But all these terrorists are doing it for "Islam" so they say.

You and I and the world knows that Bush was not calling all Islamic people Fascists. Geez .. and they say the US people are being overly critical against Muslims..

We should not be singled out because of our faith.

You aren't but as we see in the UK .. US born citizens are trying to kill innocent people for ISLAM too .. we ALL need to stand up against these people for our freedoms.. muslims, christians .. everyone. We all have something we can do to stop this.. and until these Jihadists are gone, they will forgive tie themselves to Islam.... UNLESS... this islam can renounce these people? .. Serious question .. can't the muslim society renounce these extremists.. ?

and agreed...

Thanks..you all say it much better then I can!

[Jenn! 918]

I'm wondering what it is that people want Muslims to do in terms of speaking out against terrorism. After a quick google search I found tons of articles describing Muslim anti-terror protests. Islam has no "pope" to make a public statement regarding Muslims' positition on terrorism. I personally do not feel that Muslims as a group support terrorism. So what has made people feel that they need more "proof" that Islam does not condone terrorism?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I wish parents would quit naming their son's "Jihad". Now, I don't need to tell you where such names originate, do I?

[Ban Hammer 13,366]

islamic fascists is probably a nicer term than any i have for the terrorists......

[Mirorgate 0]

I'm wondering what it is that people want Muslims to do in terms of speaking out against terrorism. After a quick google search I found tons of articles describing Muslim anti-terror protests. Islam has no "pope" to make a public statement regarding Muslims' positition on terrorism. I personally do not feel that Muslims as a group support terrorism. So what has made people feel that they need more "proof" that Islam does not condone terrorism?

oh I dont know... how bout turning them over to local police if they know the extremists are planning to blow something up. EN MASS. but no.... that'd be not supporting the muslim brother against the great satan and is bad.

not sure bout you... but if neighbor or friend that is christian were planning something as stupid.. in a heartbeat i'd be on the phone.. even against a brother or sister in christ. cause obviously they arent practicing what is taught.

just because Islam doesnt seem to have a figure head like the pope where the majority look to doesnt mean they dont have well respected and anti-extremist leaders. unfortunately the most outspoken ones are anti west and condone or turn a "blind eye" to it.

[vartan 0]

islamic fascists is probably a nicer term than any i have for the terrorists......

Yeah .. I got about 20-30 right off the top of my head.

oh I dont know... how bout turning them over to local police if they know the extremists are planning to blow something up. EN MASS. but no.... that'd be not supporting the muslim brother against the great satan and is bad.

not sure bout you... but if neighbor or friend that is christian were planning something as stupid.. in a heartbeat i'd be on the phone.. even against a brother or sister in christ. cause obviously they arent practicing what is taught.

just because Islam doesnt seem to have a figure head like the pope where the majority look to doesnt mean they dont have well respected and anti-extremist leaders. unfortunately the most outspoken ones are anti west and condone or turn a "blind eye" to it.

Thank you for answering that .. I couldn't put it in words.. but you got it right.. I think the reason some wont do it is fear of persecution too.. More of a "they don't want to hurt me so its ok".. I hope I am wrong.. but just an observation.

[GaryC 7]

Please don't get me wrong. I have met a lot of muslims in Indonesia and they were all peaceful tolerant people. I KNOW that not all muslims are terrorists. But it really doesn't help the muslims cause when we see people dancing in the streets after 9/11. What else are we supposed to think when we see that?

Edited August 26, 2006 by Iniibig ko si Luz forever

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'm wondering what it is that people want Muslims to do in terms of speaking out against terrorism. After a quick google search I found tons of articles describing Muslim anti-terror protests. Islam has no "pope" to make a public statement regarding Muslims' positition on terrorism. I personally do not feel that Muslims as a group support terrorism. So what has made people feel that they need more "proof" that Islam does not condone terrorism?

Jihadists are not born jihadists. They are raised (and sometimes apparently even named) to be such. These extremist elements do not grow or exist in a vacuum. The Islamist hate mosques and schools where they are systematically brainwashed continue to exist and be tolerated in many majorly muslim countries. How about the good muslims take a stand and tear those temples of death and destruction down once and for all? Just go and clean that kind of ####### up. Words are cheap and mean nothing if there continues to be a huge gap between what is proclaimed and what is being practiced.

Edited August 26, 2006 by ET-US2004

[Alex+R 0]

What is an "Islamic"? What is the difference between that and a Muslim?

Is it the responsability of other Muslims to rid the world of the "bad" ones?

[vartan 0]

Is it the responsability of other Muslims to rid the world of the "bad" ones?

Its the responsibility of the good to get rid of the bad.. if they are part of the good.. then yes.

Edited August 26, 2006 by vartan