Winters like this are why tiny cars will never make it in America

[chri'stina 190]

Nah, this is fun! I hope nobody takes any of this as more than just good-natured bickering between friends!!

Don't worry, I was joking!! But you should know that Steven and \ are sworn enemies and it all started over something like this.

(joking, again)

Edited December 28, 2010 by chri'stina

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So much for global warming.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

A 2003 Scooby-Doo Outback will get you 31 mpg highway with permanent 4WD.

If you call that sh!tty, I'd like to see what you'd call economical with permanent 4WD.

The Suburu is the unofficial "State car of Vermont" and the rural mail carriers all drive them. They work in places that get 2 feet of snow on a regular basis, not just where people whine about it.

Driving a roller skate to "prevent" something that doesn't exist is foolish. Choosing a Suburu for winter driving is smart. It has nothing to do with gas mileage.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Enjoy the Prius during a blizzard. It's your funeral.

Wussies that can't handle it should move to Arizona and become internet experts on winter driving. FWIW all the Prius driving libruls in Vermont continue driving their librul Priuses, bumper stickers and all, all winter.

If there is 18" of snow, you aren't getting through in just about anything short of a tank. If the roads are icy, you are going to slide off he road in your 4WD SUV with all four wheels spinning. If the roads are cleared by adequate snow removal equipment, you are going to get around just fine in your Toyota Bersa with winter tires.

[tmma 467]

Alot of it has to do with the chicken factor of the driver too....I was in Bosnia during a COLD ( OMG COLD) Winter and the folks that lived there were driving their Skodas ( no comment) through just about anything.....We had a bog standard Military HumVee and had the worst time through the snow.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I live in Alaska and a AWD/4WD beats a FWD vehicle in snow hands down 100% of the time. Luckily people can have their cake and eat it too with economical AWD vehicles like Subaru Impreza's, Legacy's, and Toyota RAV4's.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Why_Me

[Saddle Bronc 124]

does this mean aj is finally gonna get a f-250?

Actually, he prefers an "Avoid" (aka "Dodge") Ram over a Fix Or Repair Daily.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Wussies that can't handle it should move to Arizona and become internet experts on winter driving. FWIW all the Prius driving libruls in Vermont continue driving their librul Priuses, bumper stickers and all, all winter.

If there is 18" of snow, you aren't getting through in just about anything short of a tank. If the roads are icy, you are going to slide off he road in your 4WD SUV with all four wheels spinning. If the roads are cleared by adequate snow removal equipment, you are going to get around just fine in your Toyota Bersa with winter tires.

I've found that a RWD car (admittedly, not too many of these made for North America sale anymore) with sandbags in boot beats a FWD nicely--and this was in Calgary (in this case, the RWD was a no-tech Hyundai Pony).

[The_Dude 1,142]

A 2003 Scooby-Doo Outback will get you 31 mpg highway with permanent 4WD.

If you call that sh!tty, I'd like to see what you'd call economical with permanent 4WD.

I was talking about their most popular model, the Impreza which gets 18mpg. That's not as bad as say a 69' Chevelle, but it's not really that good either.

[wayno 9]

Drove all around the other day during the blizzard to take pictures and show my wife some more snow. She actually likes it now. We don't get much here normally so I'm one of those crazies who actually go out driving in it. I have my whole life when we've gotten the occasional dumping. I have only ever driven full size 4X4's and only would. The handling on my dodge 1/2 ton with all/terrain tires is great. Couldn't imagine driving anything smaller. Not my style and I like the safety and visibility. Just slow down a good bit, follow farther behind and ease down slowly on the brakes. A capable vehicle helps a lot but still needs to be driven cautiosly. There is no way a FWD or RWD light weight car can handle what a heavy 4X4 truck or SUV with the right tires can do. I'll take the full size SUV or pick-up 4X4 any day. Now if you try to go normal highway speeds and/or wait till the last second to slam on your breaks it doesn't matter what you're driving. You'll probably end up in a ditch, or worse, anyway.

[SMR 368]

Do SUV's help in the snow? Sure. 4WD and better clearance reduces the probability of getting stuck in deep snow.

But most people can get along just fine more than 99% of the time in whatever car, provided they drive safely and sensibly (and get appropriate tires, which are allowed in almost all states in the areas and at the times where and when they are needed). As has been pointed out, many European and Asian cities have winters just as bad as those in the US. Siberian streets, for instance, are full of compacts, vans, and buses. Snowfall is very heavy and the roads are never completely free of snow and ice during the winter months. Yet business continues as usual. In periods of particular cold, schools close but only because they are worried that the kids will freeze, not because of road conditions.

I drive a compact car with FWD in upstate New York where snowfall is significant, yet I have never missed a day of work or not been able to travel because of snow. I just drive sensibly and remain aware of the road. That's what keeps you out of the ditch, not 4WD.

Now, I'm not going to completely discount the value of SUVs in the snow. If you live in a rural area where roads aren't plowed or if snow fall is much above average and snow removal can't keep up, an SUV can help out and keep you from getting stuck. I never knock people with SUVs since they're fine cars and have a lot of advantages. But don't tell me you got it so you could drive in the snow. That's like a boat owner telling you he got it in case of a flood. He got it because he wanted a boat. If a flood happens, it might be useful, but that's not why he bought it.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Do SUV's help in the snow? Sure. 4WD and better clearance reduces the probability of getting stuck in deep snow.

But most people can get along just fine more than 99% of the time in whatever car, provided they drive safely and sensibly (and get appropriate tires, which are allowed in almost all states in the areas and at the times where and when they are needed). As has been pointed out, many European and Asian cities have winters just as bad as those in the US. Siberian streets, for instance, are full of compacts, vans, and buses. Snowfall is very heavy and the roads are never completely free of snow and ice during the winter months. Yet business continues as usual. In periods of particular cold, schools close but only because they are worried that the kids will freeze, not because of road conditions.

I drive a compact car with FWD in upstate New York where snowfall is significant, yet I have never missed a day of work or not been able to travel because of snow. I just drive sensibly and remain aware of the road. That's what keeps you out of the ditch, not 4WD.

Now, I'm not going to completely discount the value of SUVs in the snow. If you live in a rural area where roads aren't plowed or if snow fall is much above average and snow removal can't keep up, an SUV can help out and keep you from getting stuck. I never knock people with SUVs since they're fine cars and have a lot of advantages. But don't tell me you got it so you could drive in the snow. That's like a boat owner telling you he got it in case of a flood. He got it because he wanted a boat. If a flood happens, it might be useful, but that's not why he bought it.

I got my 4WD pick up for the snow. Our winters start in mid September and don't end until the first part of May. Even on a plowed road a AWD vehicle has it over a FWD. Better traction and handling...especially on corners. Also AWD helps big time just getting out of an unplowed driveway and/or parking lot not to mention once stuck in a ditch, the chances of getting out of it with a 4WD aren't too bad.

But I do agree...proper tires, and driving according to the conditions a FWD will do just fine in most all parts of the states. We have a Ford Windstar FWD mini van that tracks like a tank in icy/snowy conditions.

[james&olya 1,121]

Now, I'm not going to completely discount the value of SUVs in the snow. If you live in a rural area where roads aren't plowed or if snow fall is much above average and snow removal can't keep up, an SUV can help out and keep you from getting stuck. I never knock people with SUVs since they're fine cars and have a lot of advantages. But don't tell me you got it so you could drive in the snow. That's like a boat owner telling you he got it in case of a flood. He got it because he wanted a boat. If a flood happens, it might be useful, but that's not why he bought it.

In my experience getting real winter tires (not so-called all season tires) helps a lot more than 4WD, especially because you have increased cornering and stopping ability. 4WD only helps with acceleration. Using winter tires is also a lot cheaper than 4WD. I live where there is snowfall of 250" yearly. I can afford 4WD but didn't bother getting it on the hybrid escape I now drive. But I do have it on my p/u truck which I also outfit with winter tires. I have yet to need to take the truck anywhere due to snowfall amounts.

[Pooky 3,825]

I was talking about their most popular model, the Impreza which gets 18mpg. That's not as bad as say a 69' Chevelle, but it's not really that good either.

Your 18 mpg is city driving for the WRX STi, which is still quoted at 23mpg highway. Add a few mpg for practical highway driving (the 2003 Outback is slated for 23 mpg, too according to www.fueleconomy.gov, compared to the 31 mpg I actually measured) and it's better than most AWD vehicles out there.

So, yes, it's pretty good.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

The Suburu is the unofficial "State car of Vermont" and the rural mail carriers all drive them. They work in places that get 2 feet of snow on a regular basis, not just where people whine about it.

Driving a roller skate to "prevent" something that doesn't exist is foolish. Choosing a Suburu for winter driving is smart. It has nothing to do with gas mileage.

Subaru's are great snow belt vehicles. Ernie Boch made a smart move when he became the NE distributor for Subaru many moons ago. Most thought he was crazy as Subaru was not well known at the time.