America in Decline: Why Germans Think We're Insane

[DEDixon 39]

Yes I agree the QOL life has declined. I dont believe that its as bad as Bob might characterize it but back when jobs were plentiful if you were a able body willing to make something of yourself you could choose a good nice area to do exactly that.

I believe as a country were rotting from the inside out and very little of that IMO has to do with big corporations. I believe it has a lot to do with attitudes as individuals and how we handle problems.

i agree with that one, for sure.

[Danno 1,228]

<<<<<It's important to note that no country in the European Union uses food stamps in order to humiliate its disadvantaged citizens in the grocery checkout line. Even worse is the fact that even the humbling food stamp allotment may not provide enough food for America’s jobless families. So it is on a reoccurring basis that some of these families report eating out of garbage cans to the European media. >>>>

I got a real chuckle out of this BS.

Have the European reporters seen the size of many folks on Food stamps?

The food stamp program is so generous, those seeking this public "assistance" need not kick in at all on their food bill.

Example, in my state a Family of 3 gets almost $400 per month.

Bear in mind that is all food money, no soap, tin foil, cleaning products or prepared foods.

If anyone on food Stamps is eating out of a garbage can it's because they traded their food for crack.

These same peoples children also get breakfast and lunch served free at school and can hit the local food pantry a swell.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Danno

[peejay 327]

<<<<<It's important to note that no country in the European Union uses food stamps in order to humiliate its disadvantaged citizens in the grocery checkout line. Even worse is the fact that even the humbling food stamp allotment may not provide enough food for America’s jobless families. So it is on a reoccurring basis that some of these families report eating out of garbage cans to the European media. >>>>

I got a real chuckle out of this BS.

Have the European reporters seen the size of many folks on Food stamps?

The food stamp program is so generous, those seeking this public "assistance" need not kick in at all on their food bill.

Example, in my state a Family of 3 gets almost $400 per month.

Bear in mind that is all food money, no soap, tin foil, cleaning products or prepared foods.

If anyone on food Stamps is eating out of a garbage can it's because they traded their food for crack.

These same peoples children also get breakfast and lunch served free at school and can hit the local food pantry a swell.

Don't get me started on Food Stamps (now the Lone Star debit card in TX). I didn't grow up in nor do I presently live in a gated community. I've seen it all in real technicolor over the last 35+ years.

Although I have to admit that the debit card is a better idea than the fraud laden alternate money that Food Stamps used to be.

Edited December 28, 2010 by peejay

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Some amount? Good grief, talk about a understatement. I'm not buying your "we dont give a **" line and I dont buy the rosy picture you're trying to paint of Germany.

Yes, some amount. I see the flocks of homeless people around these parts and refuse to believe that they are all homeless by choice. They're not. I am aware of the tens of thousands of Americans that are left for dead each and every year for we don't care that they need medical treatments to live that they can't pay for. It's their own fault, right? They failed to prepare for that eventuality so ** them. That's the debate we were having as a country just this past year and the clear outcome is that we just don't care for our fellow Americans. There's no way to sugar coat that. And it's in this regard, that Germany and the rest of old Europe has outdone the US. They care. They don't let the less fortunate waste away on the streets and they don't let them die of curable diseases. Germany takes the commitment to the inviolability of human dignity very seriously.

What is it with Europeans looking down on us, we dont want to be like you. Get over it! Sure you reside here but your hearts in Germany. If in the future you would like to join your heart I will be here to help you move.

Since you don't know me, you can't make any intelligent comment about where my heart is. There are enough things in and about Germany that bother me a great deal. It ain't a perfect place. Not even close. If I believed otherwise, I'd be there. But I chose to live here and I haven't regretted that choice yet. Personally, I am doing very well here. I've consistently stated on these forums that I believe that the US still offers a great deal of opportunity. To me, it offers much more opportunity than I think old Europe does. Problem is that there's ever less of that opportunity out there and it's ever harder to realize for a growing number of Americans.

Why is that? Well, because we no longer lead the world economically. We don't think big or long term anymore but rather hustle from quarter to quarter to keep Wall Street happy and our stock prices up. We no longer welcome long-term investments into the country's future but stupidly scoff at it as 'big government'. We happily leave the future to China, India and Europe who are all busy positioning their economies to meet tomorrow's demand while continue to subsidize the economic foundations of yesterday. That ain't a winning strategy and one ought to be allowed to state that without being accused of not understanding or not liking America. If I didn't care about America, I wouldn't bother thinking about the country's future. I'd take care of my here and now and pizz on everything else.

Problem with that approach is that I have a daughter who will one day look at me and ask: Daddy, why did your generation act so foolishly and selfishly taking a country that was the leader on so many things and leaving me and my generation with this pile of #######?

[wshc 46]

Social nets only function when they are used by people that have a short need for them and they use them only for as long as they need them then get off of them. In the USA there are millions upon millions of people that realize that social nets are easy to take advantage of which can provide them with an easy living. (Not a good living by middle class standards, but something they can get use to, and yes provide them with their 42" TV.) These people break the system for all of the honest people that need the system.

Europeans don't understand this concept and judge the USA by European standards and think the societies are the same. Europeans that get over this "we are all the same BS" quickly understand what is happening when their social nets are now being stretched to the limits by cheating scum. So many immigrants, (I would count DDR and other former communist people in this crowd) simply think it is normal to live off of the state all of their life and not have to be productive. If that means that they have to "rip-off" the system and break the official rules or lie on a few forms or some paperwork they will do it. It is socially acceptable in their self supporting circles for them because, “after all the state is there to take care of them”. Europe cannot sustain its social net with the increasing number of people sliding in to permanent American style Ghetto Welfare Classes.

Back to the original point, "Germans think we are insane" - I would agree with that statement. There is no legitimate comparison between the two countries however, so it really doesn't matter what the Germans think.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So many immigrants, (I would count DDR and other former communist people in this crowd) simply think it is normal to live off of the state all of their life and not have to be productive.

Good Lord. How little you know about what once was dark side of the iron curtain.

[wshc 46]

Good Lord. How little you know about what once was dark side of the iron curtain.

Living almost 20 years in Germany close to the former border right after the border came down. Being surrounded with people from former Eastern Block countries. Traveling and doing business extensively in the former East Germany in the early nineties. I think I have had experience with what I mentioned.

Don't misunderstand. These are good people and unfortunately are treated with dispect by a large section of the "West German" population. But you can't deny the fact that a large majority of them do not quite grasp the idea of western style capitalism.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Living almost 20 years in Germany close to the former border right after the border came down. Being surrounded with people from former Eastern Block countries. Traveling and doing business extensively in the former East Germany in the early nineties. I think I have had experience with what I mentioned.

Don't misunderstand. These are good people and unfortunately are treated with dispect by a large section of the "West German" population. But you can't deny the fact that a large majority of them do not quite grasp the idea of western style capitalism.

Well, I grew up and lived a mile or so away from the Berlin Wall - on the dark side of it. I don't disagree that a large number of people both in what was East Germany as well as the Eastern Block have been unable to adjust to the new realities. Those are largely the older folks. Can't really blame them as they have essentially lived a life deprived of opportunity and have entered the west at a time when they were too old to matter in a system looking for young and energetic people. That's not to say that many of them didn't try to make it. I don't think that a large majority doesn't grasp the concept of western style capitalism. There are some that don't but for the most part they most certainly do.

The younger folks leaving East Germany (and Eastern Europe) to pursue opportunities not available there speak to the fact that people would rather find work than depend on public benefits. My dad grew up in a small village at the Baltic Sea. Two sisters of his still live there. Together, they have 7 kids. All but one of them have left the village now living in Kiel, Hamburg, Lübeck, Hannover and Oslo. The one that remained is running the family business my grandfather established back in the 50's. And this is not just a family story - it's the picture you find in many economically deprived areas in former East Germany. It's a testament to the drive of the people from the former Eastern Block to succeed in what has turned into a competitive world.

The elderly are left behind in all this. But I think that they have put in a life spent working and raising the generation that benefits from the fall of the Communist regimes. It's not asked too much, in my opinion, to grant them a dignified existence as they live out their lives which were largely deprived of any economic opportunity.

[wshc 46]

Well stated and respected... you seem to know from experience...

My statement "But you can't deny the fact that a large majority of them do not quite grasp the idea of western style capitalism." could be applied to all of the Germans and Europeans that have truned to the saftey net as a source of income and not just a source of help in time of need.

That is what is happening in the USA over the last few generations.

Edited December 28, 2010 by wshc

[luckytxn 2,265]

We seem to be having this same debate again.....and again. Maybe the OP hopes that if he puts this same old tired stuff here that the others will come around and change their thinking. To make matters simple though I will say that we don't care what they think of us here. They are insignificant to us here. Sure they think they are important and all but that is it.

Charity used to be large here and if any needed help then they could find it. Now since the mentality has turned slowly Socialist it has gotten away from charity and to the state to take care of us. What is wrong with this? The Feds are a long way off and have nary our hearts and minds in view when they think up these Socialist programs. They want to control us and to do so they have to put bureaucrats in place to do so. To have bureaucrats in place they have to have guidelines in place and that means a cookie cutter approach to fix a far flung populace that the last thing they need is a cookie cutter approach.

This may seem radical to some but I like to help our citizens and think we should but at the state level at the most and the city approach at the optimum. This way citizens can have a much more direct link to even say what they want and tax themselves appropriately to try to reach the level they choose. The Feds never get it right by forcing a cookie cutter approach on the country. In fact their one thing they are supposed to do constitutionally is protect us from enemies foreign and domestic and they screw that up and I think it is because they have taken their eyes off only mandated jobs and are trying to socially engineer a Utopia that will never be.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The author is living in the right place. He is welcome to stay there.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Yes, some amount. I see the flocks of homeless people around these parts and refuse to believe that they are all homeless by choice. They're not. I am aware of the tens of thousands of Americans that are left for dead each and every year for we don't care that they need medical treatments to live that they can't pay for. It's their own fault, right? They failed to prepare for that eventuality so ** them. That's the debate we were having as a country just this past year and the clear outcome is that we just don't care for our fellow Americans. There's no way to sugar coat that. And it's in this regard, that Germany and the rest of old Europe has outdone the US. They care. They don't let the less fortunate waste away on the streets and they don't let them die of curable diseases. Germany takes the commitment to the inviolability of human dignity very seriously.

We do care.

I never said we had a perfect system, with that said to act like most Americans dont give a ** is a joke.

Most homeless people are mentally ill, have you been around mentally ill people? I had a aunt that was schizophrenic. The government paid for her medication and she had a family that did everything they could for her. It was a constant chore trying to get her to take her medications and she would often disappear for days. There is help out there for these people but you cant always help them.

And once again Im not buying this rosy picture you're painting of Europe.

Since you don't know me, you can't make any intelligent comment about where my heart is. There are enough things in and about Germany that bother me a great deal. It ain't a perfect place. Not even close. If I believed otherwise, I'd be there. But I chose to live here and I haven't regretted that choice yet. Personally, I am doing very well here. I've consistently stated on these forums that I believe that the US still offers a great deal of opportunity. To me, it offers much more opportunity than I think old Europe does. Problem is that there's ever less of that opportunity out there and it's ever harder to realize for a growing number of Americans.

The only time you really have anything good to say about America is when your called out. Usually all we get from you is this how Europe does it better attitude. If you really do care about America I might suggest you change M.O. With your attitude you will only get negative responses.

So in your opinion why do Europeans care more? Are they made of sugar,spice and everything nice?

Why is that? Well, because we no longer lead the world economically. We don't think big or long term anymore but rather hustle from quarter to quarter to keep Wall Street happy and our stock prices up. We no longer welcome long-term investments into the country's future but stupidly scoff at it as 'big government'. We happily leave the future to China, India and Europe who are all busy positioning their economies to meet tomorrow's demand while continue to subsidize the economic foundations of yesterday. That ain't a winning strategy and one ought to be allowed to state that without being accused of not understanding or not liking America. If I didn't care about America, I wouldn't bother thinking about the country's future. I'd take care of my here and now and pizz on everything else.

Yes we have our problems and we are going thru a tough time. We will get through it.

If you do care your attitude will do very little in helping make this a better country. Nothing constructive about your attitude at all.

And yet I'm still not buying this rosy picture your painting of Europe.

Problem with that approach is that I have a daughter who will one day look at me and ask: Daddy, why did your generation act so foolishly and selfishly taking a country that was the leader on so many things and leaving me and my generation with this pile of #######?

Well I hope you tell her the WHOLE truth and not just this horrible one sided opinion. I hope one day she sees this country for what it is, a great country with caring people.

Edited December 29, 2010 by _Simpson_

[_Simpson_ 250]

The author is living in the right place. He is welcome to stay there.

He lives in AZ. We need to ship him to CA. Hell we should ship them all to CA. and then beg Europe to take them.

[The_Dude 1,142]

I can't tell if that was a "kumbaya" post, or a "'Merica, love it or GTFO muslim socialist" post. I did want to add that your statistic that a majority of homeless are mentally ill is false. Depending upon the source, the actual figure will be anywhere from 20-40%. That is still a very significant number considering that only 5% of the population in general.

[_Simpson_ 250]

He lives in AZ. We need to ship him to CA. Hell we should ship them all to CA. and then beg Europe to take them.

Author of article. Got it. Yes stay there and never come back.