America in Decline: Why Germans Think We're Insane

[Ban Hammer 13,475]

If you cut off assistance, they will have no choice but to work (or lead a life of crime and end up in prison.)

hunger is the great motivator.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The operating expenses for state prisons is something like $30 billion a year. Way less than cradle-to-grave unemployment benefits and welfare.

Incarceration cost averages about 25K per inmate per year. Looking at having the highest incarceration rate of any developed country as it is, I'm not sure this is really a viable path.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Are you implying that we as a country dont give a dam about certain members of our society? If so take them tinted glasses off and get to know your fellow Americans. There is a lot of big hearted people out there that give a dam and if you ever fall on hard times you will see that.

Yes, that is exactly what I am implying. While there is some amopunt of individual charity out there, as a country, we don't give a **. If we did, we wouldn't be looking at the rising poverty rates and go on pretending all is well.

[mawilson 2,133]

Incarceration cost averages about 25K per inmate per year.

So basically the same as unemployment benefits? I say lock 'em up and make them work - kill both birds with one stone.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So basically the same as unemployment benefits? I say lock 'em up and make them work - kill both birds with one stone.

Actually, three birds. There will be a lot of construction jobs building the facilities and then there will be the jobs running them. It's brilliant!

[DEDixon 39]

Yes, that is exactly what I am implying. While there is some amopunt of individual charity out there, as a country, we don't give a **. If we did, we wouldn't be looking at the rising poverty rates and go on pretending all is well.

so what has Obama done about these rising poverty rates? the same with pelosi? i'm talking about efforts outside of the economic issues we have today so not talking extending unemployment benefits. what have either of them done to address the rising poverty rates? pelosi has been in charge since 2006, what has she done?

all i can think of while writing this is that allowing more illegals in the country isn't going to help legal residences and citizens (it just adds to the burden). but, i don't want your answer tied to illegals, just say what they have done to change anything. i honestly don't know of anything heroic or historic that they have proposed to curb rising poverty rates.

clinton cut the poor off in many ways with welfare reform, you think he erred?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

so what has Obama done about these rising poverty rates? the same with pelosi? i'm talking about efforts outside of the economic issues we have today so not talking extending unemployment benefits. what have either of them done to address the rising poverty rates? pelosi has been in charge since 2006, what has she done?

all i can think of while writing this is that allowing more illegals in the country isn't going to help legal residences and citizens (it just adds to the burden). but, i don't want your answer tied to illegals, just say what they have done to change anything. i honestly don't know of anything heroic or historic that they have proposed to curb rising poverty rates.

You can't cut out measures such as the unemployment benefits extensions which would arguably have a direct impact on poverty rates. But even if you do, look at the first pieces of legislation introduced by the Democratic majority in the House in jan of 2007. You might find something interesting there.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Yes, that is exactly what I am implying. While there is some amopunt of individual charity out there, as a country, we don't give a **. If we did, we wouldn't be looking at the rising poverty rates and go on pretending all is well.

Some amount? Good grief, talk about a understatement. I'm not buying your "we dont give a **" line and I dont buy the rosy picture you're trying to paint of Germany.

What is it with Europeans looking down on us, we dont want to be like you. Get over it! Sure you reside here but your hearts in Germany. If in the future you would like to join your heart I will be here to help you move.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

I know that this is a very sensitive subject, but as somebody who lived in 7 European countries and now in the US, I think I can rightfully say "blessed are those who don't know how ignorant they are."

While setup as a unique and probably the best and most desirable country to live in on the planet, the US has steadily declined since about the 1950s. In the 1950s we had all the space one could wish for, huge luxury cars, a highway systems, kitchens with more gadgets than any other country in the world, and we were truly #1 in the World in so many things.

So what has changed?

A lot!

Corporations have gotten hold of politics. In order to run for office, any office, one needs money. This money comes from donations, unless the candidate is already a multi-millionaire. These corporate contributors will ask for a favor at some point. If the then elected candidate declines, he's done. Corporations also control the media; after all, they own them! Accusations, scandals, whatever it takes to form "public opinion."

Prison? A business! Many prisons are owned by public corporations and make huge money. Politicians get campaign donations from those corporations, judges are shareholders.

Health Care, or, better, sick care? Corporations! Big business, again.

Cigarettes, business, gasoline, business . . . pretty much everything is business these days. Not small business, but big, huge corporate business!

Education? Not really a business. The business of education today is the dummification of the electorate. Dumb people are more susceptible to propaganda, don't ask questions, don't do research.

Somebody who grew up in poverty doesn't recognize the absence of food in abundance as much as somebody who had it all and lost it all. Many Americans who shout "#### 'em" to people who lost their jobs or health benefits seem to forget that it can hit them as well.

It's true, countries who provide benefits for its citizens, whether health benefits, tuition free higher education, or a secured retirement have higher taxes in general. But the term "higher taxes" has such a bad connotation in this country, that it's become a taboo.

Even as a classic car and motorcycle collector, I, personally, wouldn't mind paying an extra dollar per gallon of fuel if I could get health care in exchange. Take a second dollar taxes of my money if I can retire without fear of poverty. So what if we pay $5 per gallon of fuel and a slightly higher income tax, if we can rest comfortably knowing that an illness or disability or loss of job or early retirement would wipe us out financially.

Some of you disagree. It's all fine as long as it's all fine. But when the sh*t hits the fan, you'll be the first screaming for help and cursing our Government for letting this happen to its citizens.

[james&olya 1,121]

so what has Obama done about these rising poverty rates? the same with pelosi? i'm talking about efforts outside of the economic issues we have today so not talking extending unemployment benefits. what have either of them done to address the rising poverty rates? pelosi has been in charge since 2006, what has she done?

Not enough! But the minimum wage was raised, there is now health insurance reform that, while still inadequate, brings us closer to universal coverage. All this was fought by the GOP. And it takes much more than a majority to get anything done under senate rules in effect now. The minority can block the majority unless a super-majority votes to over-ride a filibuster. So no, Pelosi, Reid, and Obama were not 'in charge'! Put them in a position to actually do what they want and you might see a much more productive government for once, albeit not to the liking of the tea party handlers.

[_Simpson_ 250]

I know that this is a very sensitive subject, but as somebody who lived in 7 European countries and now in the US, I think I can rightfully say "blessed are those who don't know how ignorant they are."

While setup as a unique and probably the best and most desirable country to live in on the planet, the US has steadily declined since about the 1950s. In the 1950s we had all the space one could wish for, huge luxury cars, a highway systems, kitchens with more gadgets than any other country in the world, and we were truly #1 in the World in so many things.

So what has changed?

A lot!

Corporations have gotten hold of politics. In order to run for office, any office, one needs money. This money comes from donations, unless the candidate is already a multi-millionaire. These corporate contributors will ask for a favor at some point. If the then elected candidate declines, he's done. Corporations also control the media; after all, they own them! Accusations, scandals, whatever it takes to form "public opinion."

Prison? A business! Many prisons are owned by public corporations and make huge money. Politicians get campaign donations from those corporations, judges are shareholders.

Health Care, or, better, sick care? Corporations! Big business, again.

Cigarettes, business, gasoline, business . . . pretty much everything is business these days. Not small business, but big, huge corporate business!

Education? Not really a business. The business of education today is the dummification of the electorate. Dumb people are more susceptible to propaganda, don't ask questions, don't do research.

Somebody who grew up in poverty doesn't recognize the absence of food in abundance as much as somebody who had it all and lost it all. Many Americans who shout "#### 'em" to people who lost their jobs or health benefits seem to forget that it can hit them as well.

It's true, countries who provide benefits for its citizens, whether health benefits, tuition free higher education, or a secured retirement have higher taxes in general. But the term "higher taxes" has such a bad connotation in this country, that it's become a taboo.

Even as a classic car and motorcycle collector, I, personally, wouldn't mind paying an extra dollar per gallon of fuel if I could get health care in exchange. Take a second dollar taxes of my money if I can retire without fear of poverty. So what if we pay $5 per gallon of fuel and a slightly higher income tax, if we can rest comfortably knowing that an illness or disability or loss of job or early retirement would wipe us out financially.

Some of you disagree. It's all fine as long as it's all fine. But when the sh*t hits the fan, you'll be the first screaming for help and cursing our Government for letting this happen to its citizens.

Nonsense, I refuse to take the college kid approach and blame corporations for everything.

I dont know what America you live in but the one I have lived in for the last 36 years has been good to me. Dont get me wrong its not perfect but hardly the hell you describe.

[DEDixon 39]

I know that this is a very sensitive subject, but as somebody who lived in 7 European countries and now in the US, I think I can rightfully say "blessed are those who don't know how ignorant they are."

While setup as a unique and probably the best and most desirable country to live in on the planet, the US has steadily declined since about the 1950s. In the 1950s we had all the space one could wish for, huge luxury cars, a highway systems, kitchens with more gadgets than any other country in the world, and we were truly #1 in the World in so many things.

So what has changed?

A lot!

i rarely agree with you, but this time, yes i do.

i keep saying this same thing about the 50s - big families and 1 income supported all of them. Now, small families and it takes 2 incomes to support them.

in the 50s, one didn't need to be a college grad to support a family of 5 either so like you said, what changed?

i agree that a lot has changed, too much to mention and surely we can't blame repubs or dems for these changes, but instead every single greedy one of us. our parents sold out and now we are still selling out everyday! look in the fcuking mirror folks.

europe is absolutely no different. i remember being in the UK in the early 80s, neighborhoods with 1 car garage and 1 "car-wide" driveway, but now? the lawns are gone, paved over and the driveways are 2 cars wide. no one can say Germany is any different, if anything, given german's drive for money and power in europe, it is worse in germany than it is in other parts of europe.

Germany is great ... NOT! they are just a few years behind us just like the UK was in the 80s, the USA already paved over their lawns by the 80s.

the US and Europe are doomed! the global economy will eventually put everyone on the same level. the global economy is sort of communist in that it will eventually make all of us the same. as the developing world rises up, the developed world will decline.

the global economy has already started to make us all the same. as soon as wages and cost of business increases in china and india, the world will look to even lesser developed countries to produce goods at even lower prices so these countries will rise to the same level as china and india while the developing world declines to the levels of india and china. it might be a long ride getting there, been on this road since the 50s, the world will eventually arrive.

**************

as an aside, all those paved over lawns in the UK has caused major floods.

[DEDixon 39]

Not enough! But the minimum wage was raised, there is now health insurance reform that, while still inadequate, brings us closer to universal coverage. All this was fought by the GOP. And it takes much more than a majority to get anything done under senate rules in effect now. The minority can block the majority unless a super-majority votes to over-ride a filibuster. So no, Pelosi, Reid, and Obama were not 'in charge'! Put them in a position to actually do what they want and you might see a much more productive government for once, albeit not to the liking of the tea party handlers.

that doesn't cut it, what have they actually proposed? are you saying that they won't even propose anything because of GOP opposition? come on, give me something heroic and historic that they have uttered one word about that will change the escalating poverty rate. please, something besides another welfare program.

health care is mostly an old age issue, we don't need it day in and day out so changes in HC won't do anything about the poverty rate.

[DEDixon 39]

Nonsense, I refuse to take the college kid approach and blame corporations for everything.

I dont know what America you live in but the one I have lived in for the last 36 years has been good to me. Dont get me wrong its not perfect but hardly the hell you describe.

QOL in the US has declined a great deal.

if you are in a professional job, it isn't so bad, but jobs which do not require a college degree do not offer the same QOL as they once did. the small town where i grew up is unrecognizable today, people don't even paint their houses anymore because they can't afford it (i refuse to say they don't care). once upon a life the QOL was such that people truly cared about their house in this town.

here in CA unions fought to get overtime pay after 8 hours of work in one day so guess who pays for that? lots of people who are just getting by pay for it by having to work two jobs. employers (i'm talking retail which the CA has a lot) will typically give their employees 6 hours a day so they don't come close to working over 8 hours. people have to work a morning job and an evening job - try that while raising even one kid. if it wasn't for this law, schedules would be a lot better for those just getting by.

the unions are dem supported, campaigns are union funded, kind of weird that the dems are selling out to the unions those who are the poorest among us.

[_Simpson_ 250]

QOL in the US has declined a great deal.

if you are in a professional job, it isn't so bad, but jobs which do not require a college degree do not offer the same QOL as they once did. the small town where i grew up is unrecognizable today, people don't even paint their houses anymore because they can't afford it (i refuse to say they don't care). once upon a life the QOL was such that people truly cared about their house in this town.

here in CA unions fought to get overtime pay after 8 hours of work in one day so guess who pays for that? lots of people who are just getting by pay for it by having to work two jobs. employers (i'm talking retail which the CA has a lot) will typically give their employees 6 hours a day so they don't come close to working over 8 hours. people have to work a morning job and an evening job - try that while raising even one kid. if it wasn't for this law, schedules would be a lot better for those just getting by.

the unions are dem supported, campaigns are union funded, kind of weird that the dems are selling out to the unions those who are the poorest among us.

Yes I agree the QOL life has declined. I dont believe that its as bad as Bob might characterize it but back when jobs were plentiful if you were a able body willing to make something of yourself you could choose a good nice area to do exactly that.

I believe as a country were rotting from the inside out and very little of that IMO has to do with big corporations. I believe it has a lot to do with attitudes as individuals and how we handle problems.