Formal call for immigration reform...

[onyxrev 0]

What do you think our options are for formally petitioning to reform the system, specifically for higher priority for K visas?

The thing that pains me more than the details of my individual USCIS trial is knowing that there are thousands of people out there experiencing the same thing and that there appears to be no accountability or checks and balances. There will be thousands and thousands of people affected in the future.

I feel that I would be morally negligent to allow this to happen without speaking up.

What can we do? Can we create a genuine petition for reform, submit it to all of our Congressmen? Senators? Mr. Gonzalez? Mr. Chertoff? Mr. Bush?

No sugarcoating. This is a genuine problem.

[vartan 0]

what is the specific problem?.. that is a place to start. Yes its delayed right now but for a reason .. the delays are gone .. there are a few stragglers but for the most part approvals were close to their regular time frame.. etc..

Once we define what the specific problem is .. then its time to think of the specific solutions.. maybe you will get some takers to join.. I will admit that I was frustrated with the situation at the begininng but you know what the more violence and hate crimes I see in the world everyday I am glad they take their time on all cases .. keep the US a safer place.

[lvasquez 0]

I believe the problem is the amount of resources aimed at processing legal immigration petitions and the way the process is managed. The process in itself is not bad, is just the way they handle it. RFE should be sent only when it is really necessary (a missing picture, no documentation of citizenship, etc).

I believe 6 months to process a K-1 is too much. Here is an idea, we'll pay a higher fee for the petition, they hire more people to review them and make it simpler so that no one has to hire a lawyer to go through the whole process. I would gladly pay more for better service. At least make it an option (premium sevice or something like that).

Also, there has to be accountability. If the petition is not ready in X time, one should be able to complain and get real answers. At this time customer service is a joke, they know nothing...

[onyxrev 0]

Yes its delayed right now but for a reason .. the delays are gone .. there are a few stragglers but for the most part approvals were close to their regular time frame.. etc..

What time frame is that?

The specific problems I can think of off the top of my head are...

1. They are accountable to nobody.

2. The petitioner is left entirely in the dark except for sporadic, awful, inaccurate updates. This is the age of computers, people! Write a script that shows exactly what stage of the process a petition is in, etc. etc.

3. They have outright lied about the process (processing by NOA1, then RFE, then essentially no timeframe will be provided).

4. The National Service Center hotline is useless.

5. They blatantly lose/misfile/ignore cases (like RFEs that have no been sent out, that have been lost, etc)

6. The service centers obviously have grossly disproportionate workloads.

I will admit that I was frustrated with the situation at the begininng but you know what the more violence and hate crimes I see in the world everyday I am glad they take their time on all cases .. keep the US a safer place.

The concept of the entire rest of the world as a scary boogyman is ridiculous. It is, in my opinion, the 'us vs. them' concept that creates such hate crimes. But I'm not here to debate that particular social mechanism.

The background check argument is logicially incoherant.

I will explain with my case as an example...

1. The 'touch' date changes when a case is handled for any reason.
   
2. My case 'touch' date has not changed.
   
3. A background check requires looking at a case.
   
4. Looking at a case should require a change of the touch date.
   
5. Hence... background checks are not the delay.
   

Edited August 25, 2006 by onyxrev

[vartan 0]

Below are just my attempts at answering your questions

1. They are accountable to nobody.

They are responsible to DHS

2. The petitioner is left entirely in the dark except for sporadic, awful, inaccurate updates. This is the age of computers, people! Write a script that shows exactly what stage of the process a petition is in, etc. etc.

The paperwork is all human read its hard to put "steps" to it. Each of our petitions is gone to by a human

3. They have outright lied about the process (processing by NOA1, then RFE, then essentially no timeframe will be provided).

I don't think they ever docuemented what they process by .. it was all just heresay..

4. The National Service Center hotline is useless.

Of course they handle all visa petitions they can not be experts at all stuff5. They blatantly lose/misfile/ignore cases (like RFEs that have no been sent out, that have been lost, etc)

I don't think they blatantly do that.. do you know how much paperwork they get for all different visas?

6. The service centers obviously have grossly disproportionate workloads.

How so .. its 1/2 and 1/2 .. west coast cali .. east coast vermont

The 'touch' date changes when a case is handled for any reason.

They specifically state that touches can happen and nothing update on their website.

My case 'touch' date has not changed.

They have alot of paperwork

A background check requires looking at a case.

Background checks are not done at USCIS

Looking at a case should require a change of the touch date.

It does

Hence... background checks are not the delay.

??

Edited August 25, 2006 by vartan

[MrMrsKnight 0]

Below are just my attempts at answering your questions

1. They are accountable to nobody.

They are responsible to DHS

2. The petitioner is left entirely in the dark except for sporadic, awful, inaccurate updates. This is the age of computers, people! Write a script that shows exactly what stage of the process a petition is in, etc. etc.

The paperwork is all human read its hard to put "steps" to it. Each of our petitions is gone to by a human

3. They have outright lied about the process (processing by NOA1, then RFE, then essentially no timeframe will be provided).

I don't think they ever docuemented what they process by .. it was all just heresay..

4. The National Service Center hotline is useless.

Of course they handle all visa petitions they can not be experts at all stuff5. They blatantly lose/misfile/ignore cases (like RFEs that have no been sent out, that have been lost, etc)

I don't think they blatantly do that.. do you know how much paperwork they get for all different visas?

6. The service centers obviously have grossly disproportionate workloads.

How so .. its 1/2 and 1/2 .. west coast cali .. east coast vermont

The 'touch' date changes when a case is handled for any reason.

They specifically state that touches can happen and nothing update on their website.

My case 'touch' date has not changed.

They have alot of paperwork

A background check requires looking at a case.

Background checks are not done at USCIS

Looking at a case should require a change of the touch date.

It does

Hence... background checks are not the delay.

??

So Vartan... you're saying that everything is good and there's nothing wrong that needs to be fixed?

I completely understand what onyxrev is saying. And he meant that background checks were the reason for the delay, he'd have already been touched... since a touch means your case has been worked on.

I'm not saying onyxrev is right about everything but some of the stuff he pointed out does need to be worked on.

[Mew 0]

Actually, USCIS does run security checks: http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/publicaffair...hecks_42506.pdf

[vartan 0]

So Vartan... you're saying that everything is good and there's nothing wrong that needs to be fixed?

I completely understand what onyxrev is saying. And he meant that background checks were the reason for the delay, he'd have already been touched... since a touch means your case has been worked on.

I'm not saying onyxrev is right about everything but some of the stuff he pointed out does need to be worked on.

Sure there are problems.. but problems that require reform.. doubt it. IMBRA was a big mess when implemented I won't deny it .. is it right he petitioned in March and is not approved no.. but all cases are unique.. we have seen this.. there is no rhyme or reason to this mess. On the RFE or if you call them they say 45-60 days.. it hasn't been that yet.. so technically they are in their time frame.. I know I may sound like a hypocrit.. and I am sure some see me this way .. But reform is a silly idea.. congressmen aren't going to do anything .. senators arent going to do anything. Mr. Gonzalez? No Mr. Chertoff? No Mr. Bush? No

Touches mean nothing.. read their website touches mean nothing. USCIS handles all immigration issues.. they have alot .. we can't expect them to start working right away on our petitions when we send them in.. its unreasonable...

I will admit 1 month ago I was in the same boat .. I was calling people to arms .. talking about wanting to do this.. and do that.. and then I realized.. its not an easy process.. we have to deal with it.

Actually, USCIS does run security checks: http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/publicaffair...hecks_42506.pdf

Touche.. heheh so they do, do security checks.. Thanks for that mew.. didn't know

I guess all in all what I am trying to say .. is this situation is no reason to cause un needed stress.. many will agree its not a fair process but we have to play the hand we are dealt. Take the time you stress about it and focus that to your loved one.. energy much better used.

[TomLena 0]

If anything, I would like to know that whatever reason caused all of the IMBRA delays has been resolved.

The law was passed in January. There was lead time given as the USCIS knew the law was pending, and, once it was passed, there was lead time prior to when it would go into effect, which was 2 months later.

While there probably was a lot of administrative time needed to figure out the process necessary in order to put IMBRA into the mix, there is absolutely no good reason that I can think of as to why someone couldn't make the decision to at least issue the new form. There should have never been a need for these RFE's. It was pretty clear when the law passed what kind of information would need to be collected by applicants. 2 months is plenty of time to create a form and have it approved. The only RFE's that should have had to go out pertaining to IMBRA should have been for those using the wrong form.

Even if there were delays in the USCIS figuring out how they were going to process the new information, the issue wouldn't have been compounded by all of the additional RFE's they had to process. They could have maintained a sense of processing order. They have most certainly lost resources that could have been put toward approving applications by letting this slip through the cracks.

This is the specific issue. There has been no press release to my knowledge which has addressed this nor assured us that the problem was resolved and could not happen again in the future.

[vartan 0]

They addressed it .. they said look we need to send RFE's to everyone.. which delayed all the petitions.. they also said they would work to clear the backlog.

I mean I in no way shape or form say not to go and spear head some reform .. please be my guest.. but when I was up in arms.. people would ask me .. What is the problem.... what is your proposed solution.

They know that the law was passed jan .. they know it was efective march they know their forms came out in june.. these are all things they know.. we at visajourney are just a small portion of the K petitions they receive.. Not trying to be a fuddy duddy (hahah funny word) but really you need to have a real arguement, a real problem and a real solution, not just speculation.. We tried this once before.. and had 5 people willing to try something.. 5 aint gonna do nothing. sorry

Again I feel really bad for the people who seem to be skipped over.. but there is no law that says petitions have to be approvd in a specific order.

Edited August 25, 2006 by vartan

[TomLena 0]

I also forgot to make a very important point for those who might think of the fairly legitimate question "What if they delayed in issuing a new form because they were worried they might not ask for enough information if they don't think it through". Well... my answer to that is that if they did not put everything on the form that they needed to know about the first go-around, then they would have been at the very worst in the same boat they are in right now... but chances are they would not have missed the very important question "Did you meet your fiance(e) through an International Marriage Broker"... to which I'm sure most have answered "No", making further information unnecessary for those folks. Bottom line is that someone in charge didn't think it through for all about the 5 minutes that it would have taken to say "Ok, let's add the yes/no checkbox to the form at the very least and save ourselves some significant resources in dealing with this IMBRA thing".

They addressed it .. they said look we need to send RFE's to everyone.. which delayed all the petitions.. they also said they would work to clear the backlog.

I mean I in no way shape or form say not to go and spear head some reform .. please be my guest.. but when I was up in arms.. people would ask me .. What is the problem.... what is your proposed solution.

They know that the law was passed jan .. they know it was efective march they know their forms came out in june.. these are all things they know.. we at visajourney are just a small portion of the K petitions they receive.. Not trying to be a fuddy duddy (hahah funny word) but really you need to have a real arguement, a real problem and a real solution, not just speculation.. We tried this once before.. and had 5 people willing to try something.. 5 aint gonna do nothing. sorry

Maybe not 5, but I was actually thinking about this not more than 2 days ago... 5 turns into a few hundred with the proper leadership/guidance. All it takes is for one person to step up and make a standard form letter outlining the specific issues, grievances, and questions and for someone who runs VisaJourney to be willing to push it in front of our current and recently past K1 petitioners. We make specific instructions to print this out and fax it to both your congressman and senator. Sure we're only a few hundred out of thousands... it's significant enough if the letter is written well enough and enough of them get into the hands of our representatives. Elections are coming soon. Think about it.

5 people is plenty. 5 people makes for a committee... everyone else just needs to play a very small role and have it brought to their attention. You only get 5 people when you use a mere form post. We need more bang. If anyone wants to create a committee, I'm in. Hell... I'll lead it if need be. PM me.

[vartan 0]

Hey if you can do it . more power to you .. hope you get what you want.. but the sad thing is .. we are only 10,000 affected by imbra. our votes aren't that important as many on VJ have noticed.

[kitkat1 5]

Below are just my attempts at answering your questions

My counterpoints in RED:

1. They are accountable to nobody.

They are responsible to DHS

Then why didn't DHS step in and correct this situation by hiring additional staff, informing petitioners of what had happened, etc?

2. The petitioner is left entirely in the dark except for sporadic, awful, inaccurate updates. This is the age of computers, people! Write a script that shows exactly what stage of the process a petition is in, etc. etc.

The paperwork is all human read its hard to put "steps" to it. Each of our petitions is gone to by a human

Isn't there a human capable of sending out a mass email to inform petitioners of what is going on? Of course there is. But they chose not to do it. They NEVER sent information to petitioners to tell them about IMBRA and the need to comply. If we hadn't found this website, we would all be clueluess. Did you know that CSC no longer accepts email inquiries from petitioners? How can it be the a USC cannot get a straight, direct, clear answer from their own government about the status of an application they have made? It is not that difficult to provide periodic updates to petitioners. They chose not to do it.

3. They have outright lied about the process (processing by NOA1, then RFE, then essentially no timeframe will be provided).

I don't think they ever docuemented what they process by .. it was all just heresay..

CSC told multiple senator's offices that petitions would continue to be processed by NOA1. When they sent out RFEs in random waves, it became more than clear that they lied. When they started approving by RFE return date, it became more than clear that they lied.

4. The National Service Center hotline is useless.

Of course they handle all visa petitions they can not be experts at all stuff

Many organizations handle many different kinds of paperwork and processes. That doesn't mean they cannot assign different phone numbers or different options within each call so a caller can get in touch with a live, educated person capable of answering their questions. When you call your phone company for repair help, you push the option for repair service and the person who answers actually knows about the repair process

6. The service centers obviously have grossly disproportionate workloads.

How so .. its 1/2 and 1/2 .. west coast cali .. east coast vermont

Come on - Vermont, as a rule, processes lightyears ahead of CSC. Whether that's because of workload or because the director of VSC actually has a brain, there is no reason for the enormous difference

Bottom line, in my opinion, is there is little we can do to change this fiasco. Some day they will clear up this IMBRA related debacle and perhaps return to normal processing times. Certainly if petitioners had a way to get straight, clear information via email updates or telephone, it would be a whole lot easier. Certainly if they processed in an equitable manner, it would be a lot easier to take. I think it we all knew from the beginning that this was a six month process, and that petitioners would be processed in the order received (barring anything unusual requiring an RFE) it would be easier to take. But those things require logic and organization and a well-run organization. Which USCIS clearly is not.

[onyxrev 0]

Alright, fair enough. I see some valid arguments here. At best I think we have shown that they theoretically may be regaining some of the ground they lost during IMBRA. However, it is my suspicion that the whole process could be improved, especially in the customer service department.

I'm not an immigration specialist but I have worked in customer service half my life. Information is so very powerful and they provide very little. And, really, very little is needed to make the whole process so much more tolerable.

Okay, so they're accountable to the DHS. How do I contact the DHS? The DHS is no more accessible than USCIS. There needs to be a valid connection to real information, not heresay, and a way for petitioners (the people for whom this whole process exists, mind you) to be heard when it's appropriate. I have been told, officially, those three different versions (NOA1, RFE, none) of processing priority, for example. Twice by USCIS reps, once by letter, and once by USCIS' congressional liaison.

I don't care how much paperwork they have, how many petitions they process. If they can't handle the job well then they can't handle the job well. And they aren't handling the job well.

How long would it take an officer who looks at a petition to write a line of text describing the most recent action taken. Someone posted a summary of USCIS' internal processing procedure a couple of weeks ago. There definitely seemed to be steps involved.

All it takes is some forward thinking.... for example, why not digitize each petition into an easily sortable and back-upable document? You could then attach metadata to it which includes the petition history, status, etc. A script can run every night that would check for changes and would post those changes for a petitioner to review online.

Here's what I'd want changed:

a) Better communication downstream (USCIS -> Petitioner). Petitioner should access to information about their case. If it's stuck in delays they should know where and why. If innovations need to be made in the petitioning process then they should be made.

B) Better communication upstream (Petitioner -> USCIS). There needs to be some way for petitioners with urgent needs to get ahold of someone who has some authority. Right now about the only thing available is contacting a senator. If the senator responds at all still only an inquiry or, at the most, a 'request' can be made of USCIS. They need not do anything. There should be documented paths for getting things accomplished should extraordinary circumstances come about.

c) Higher priority for K petitions. Right now it is obvious, looking at the processing date charts, that business related petitions (read $$$) have priority over family petitions (read <3). While this isn't surprising, the precedent that family petitions always take the back seat to just about all others should be lessened.

d) Reduce processing times by hiring more staff, using automated processes when it makes sense, getting rid of useless hotlines, etc. etc.

That's really about it. Top priority is simply better communication. The lack of communication is really what's so infuriating and stressful about the process. They need to accomplish what they will, but it doesn't have to be a hellish guessing game from day one to day 520 or whatever on the other end. It's human nature that the scariest stuff is the stuff that is unknown, that isn't shown, that is hidden. That's where the stress arises....

5 people is plenty and I'm with you, TomLena. IMBRA is the immediate, short term issue. The process wasn't good before IMBRA, isn't so hot now, and won't be better until somebody makes it so.

Certainly if petitioners had a way to get straight, clear information via email updates or telephone, it would be a whole lot easier. Certainly if they processed in an equitable manner, it would be a lot easier to take. I think it we all knew from the beginning that this was a six month process, and that petitioners would be processed in the order received (barring anything unusual requiring an RFE) it would be easier to take. But those things require logic and organization and a well-run organization. Which USCIS clearly is not.

Great answers. You get it, Kitkat.

I think all it really takes is some adjusting for the human psychology involved to make the process tolerable. That's really all I want. I am quite certain that the resources needed to do that are not as astronomical as many people seem to think.

[vartan 0]

Below are just my attempts at answering your questions

My counterpoints in RED:

1. They are accountable to nobody.

They are responsible to DHS

Then why didn't DHS step in and correct this situation by hiring additional staff, informing petitioners of what had happened, etc?

They did.. they put out a notice about it.. it was on their website.

2. The petitioner is left entirely in the dark except for sporadic, awful, inaccurate updates. This is the age of computers, people! Write a script that shows exactly what stage of the process a petition is in, etc. etc.

The paperwork is all human read its hard to put "steps" to it. Each of our petitions is gone to by a human

Isn't there a human capable of sending out a mass email to inform petitioners of what is going on? Of course there is. But they chose not to do it. They NEVER sent information to petitioners to tell them about IMBRA and the need to comply. If we hadn't found this website, we would all be clueluess. Did you know that CSC no longer accepts email inquiries from petitioners? How can it be the a USC cannot get a straight, direct, clear answer from their own government about the status of an application they have made? It is not that difficult to provide periodic updates to petitioners. They chose not to do it.

They are .. but they are a large "company" they do it with memos.. it was posted on their site. As far as no email inquiries.. they update their update site for you to check it ..

3. They have outright lied about the process (processing by NOA1, then RFE, then essentially no timeframe will be provided).

I don't think they ever docuemented what they process by .. it was all just heresay..

CSC told multiple senator's offices that petitions would continue to be processed by NOA1. When they sent out RFEs in random waves, it became more than clear that they lied. When they started approving by RFE return date, it became more than clear that they lied.

I don't believe what my senator/congressmen said completely .. heck they are politicians.. honestly without being at the service center we can not say how they processed apps. Again we are only a small portion of the petitioners.

4. The National Service Center hotline is useless.

Of course they handle all visa petitions they can not be experts at all stuff

Many organizations handle many different kinds of paperwork and processes. That doesn't mean they cannot assign different phone numbers or different options within each call so a caller can get in touch with a live, educated person capable of answering their questions. When you call your phone company for repair help, you push the option for repair service and the person who answers actually knows about the repair process

You are not their customer.. you are asking them for a privelge.. I guess they dont see us as important.. Personally I would rather them work then update us.

6. The service centers obviously have grossly disproportionate workloads.

How so .. its 1/2 and 1/2 .. west coast cali .. east coast vermont

Come on - Vermont, as a rule, processes lightyears ahead of CSC. Whether that's because of workload or because the director of VSC actually has a brain, there is no reason for the enormous difference

touche.. but again we are just a small portion of the petitions how do we know.

Bottom line, in my opinion, is there is little we can do to change this fiasco. Some day they will clear up this IMBRA related debacle and perhaps return to normal processing times. Certainly if petitioners had a way to get straight, clear information via email updates or telephone, it would be a whole lot easier. Certainly if they processed in an equitable manner, it would be a lot easier to take. I think it we all knew from the beginning that this was a six month process, and that petitioners would be processed in the order received (barring anything unusual requiring an RFE) it would be easier to take. But those things require logic and organization and a well-run organization. Which USCIS clearly is not.

Again guys I am not trying to be the enemy.. just saying that being negative about the situation doesn't help us one bit... I was negative and then I eased up and said the heck with it let it take its course.. and ya know what I feel much better.. and healthier.. the negativity is not needed guys we have enough stress..

Secondly lets give these guys the benefit of the doubt . .I know it seems slow but ya know what when I am a customer it seems slow too .. but when I am taking care of the customers.. I don't have any free time..

The one thing that I do say is completely valid is that the forms should have been available before march 6.. that I can not forgive.

Edited August 26, 2006 by vartan