What's the value of immigration?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

That's bullsh!t Paul. Nobody can skim their way all the way through college and graduate.

You'd be very very surprised.

[^_^ 5,021]

That's bullsh!t Paul. Nobody can skim their way all the way through college and graduate.

Some colleges and some programs, sure they can. But they do have the GPA to show for it too. And no quality employer will pick you up out of college without a look at that transcript. I remember my pre-interview with Deloitte my senior year.. they looked at my GPA and told me I was a shade below their cutoff. Sucks.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Some colleges and some programs, sure they can. But they do have the GPA to show for it too. And no quality employer will pick you up out of college without a look at that transcript. I remember my pre-interview with Deloitte my senior year.. they looked at my GPA and told me I was a shade below their cutoff. Sucks.

Thats weird, I interviewed with Deloitte Touche and Arthur Anderson straight out of university. They never looked at my transcripts.

[^_^ 5,021]

Thats weird, I interviewed with Deloitte Touche and Arthur Anderson straight out of university. They never looked at my transcripts.

Deloitte looked at ours. So did Sapient. I never got a call back from Arthur Anderson.

[peejay 327]

You are aware that this will require spending, on things like education. Gasp. Don't let the tea party hear you say that, they might start calling you a librul.

I think you paint a picture of the diverse T.E.A. movement (not quite a party yet) with a one second sound bite from the peanut gallery that is not accurate. We already spend billions on education. The big question is whether it is spent wisely considering the results. Throwing ever more money around does not automatically equate with success.

[^_^ 5,021]

I think you paint a picture of the diverse T.E.A. movement (not quite a party yet) with a one second sound bite from the peanut gallery that is not accurate. We already spend billions on education. The big question is whether it is spent wisely considering the results. Throwing ever more money around does not automatically equate with success.

This is true. We spend a lot but unfortunately too many kids in American schools come from cultures (both American sub-cultures and foreign cultures) that place no value on learning.

[The_Dude 1,142]

I think you paint a picture of the diverse T.E.A. movement (not quite a party yet) with a one second sound bite from the peanut gallery that is not accurate. We already spend billions on education. The big question is whether it is spent wisely considering the results. Throwing ever more money around does not automatically equate with success.

Advocating for school vouchers is not spending on education......

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Nobody can skim their way all the way through college and graduate.

Well, I do remember that employee of mine years ago who came with a degree from a good college to boot but couldn't compose an email. Lack of vocabulary, no ability to spell words or to form a coherent sentence. I have no idea how he got through college but he did. Skimming his way through sounds about right. Let's not pretend it doesn't happen.

[james&olya 1,121]

I think you paint a picture of the diverse T.E.A. movement (not quite a party yet) with a one second sound bite from the peanut gallery that is not accurate. We already spend billions on education. The big question is whether it is spent wisely considering the results. Throwing ever more money around does not automatically equate with success.

I agree that the money must be spent wisely. But I think that when people use this argument they are usually just trying to justify cutting existing spending regardless of the adverse consequences to society in the long run.

[peejay 327]

Send them to Bangladesh for 5-10 years; they'll be a lot more ambitious when they return.

Yes...poverty is a big motivator. Peoples will work in less than ideal situations at less than ideal wages when the alternative is poverty. Do we want a competitive footrace to the bottom in the USA?

That is about as stupid and unrealistic as suggesting that everyone in the USA is going to go out and get PHD's in niche professions or that everyone in the USA should be rich or they get what they deserve. That is hardly a justification for mass immigration or hiring foreigners first because it is cheaper to do so.

It has already been shown that a big chunk of H-1B's are not "niche" nor is there a shortage of Americans willing and able to do the work. My opinion only, but I think once a segment of the labor force gets flooded with cheaper foreign labor it becomes unattractive to many Americans.

[james&olya 1,121]

Yes...poverty is a big motivator. Peoples will work in less than ideal situations at less than ideal wages when the alternative is poverty. Do we want a competitive footrace to the bottom in the USA?

That is about as stupid and unrealistic as suggesting that everyone in the USA is going to go out and get PHD's in niche professions or that everyone in the USA should be rich or they get what they deserve. That is hardly a justification for mass immigration or hiring foreigners first because it is cheaper to do so.

It has already been shown that a big chunk of H-1B's are not "niche" nor is there a shortage of Americans willing and able to do the work. My opinion only, but I think once a segment of the labor force gets flooded with cheaper foreign labor it becomes unattractive to many Americans.

[peejay 327]

Advocating for school vouchers is not spending on education......

I'm not weighing in or out on the pros and cons of school vouchers, but the money for public education comes from somewhere. As far as the voucher issue goes, people vote with their feet. Consigning someone's children to a mediocre education administered by incompetents just because they can't afford something other than the set public system they are forced to use kind of sucks no matter how you slice and dice it. So does spending enormous amounts of money and not getting what you pay for.

[Ban Hammer 13,406]

That's bullsh!t Paul. Nobody can skim their way all the way through college and graduate.

gwb?

[BishopM 114]

Send them to Bangladesh for 5-10 years; they'll be a lot more ambitious when they return.

+1...the new crop of engineers coming out of the sub-continent and Asia far surpasses the average college grad in the USA currently...and its not because of the education itself, its because of the desire to succeed.

Seriously, young American doesn't realize just exactly how motivated the global competition is...if they did, and they had any sense of discipline, they'd work much harder now...

[BishopM 114]

The problem with the labor market today is there are so many careers that you need degrees for today, that 20-30 years ago you would be able to get 'on the job training for.'

The worst part about is, is school doesn't prepare you for the real world at all. All it does it teach you basic ins and outs of a field, but doesn't show you how to apply that.

So many college graduates start their careers, "stupid" on knowing what the hell to actually do.

Paul, you have a lot of good points at times, but you're way off base here...sure, the job that didn't require squat 20-30 years ago now requires a degree, but that job hasn't been static for 20-30 years, its evolved also. Its just a real fact that in today's world the college degree is the equivalent of the high school degree of 20-30 years ago, a basic requirement. Nowadays, without a Masters, the individual is limited in the choice and progress of their career.

One of the ways college prepares one for a job is in proving to a potential employer that you have a certain degree of intelligence and discipline. This is often far more important than actually knowing how you will perform the requirements of your job. You have proved you can work hard and learn.

BINGO! We have a winner