Merkel: Stand up for Christian Values.

[Jenn! 918]

Tell it to the politicians they need telling

Not one of them can't get three sentences out without referring to god

If 60% of the population were non believers they would drop that instantly - thats how sincere they are

I sincerly thank the Jews for turning 'happy christmas' into 'happy holidays' - a small victory but worth it

The christians look like they are sucking lemons when they have to say that on telly

what a hoot

I know lots of "Christians" that really only celebrate the secular aspects of Christmas that have a problem with "Happy Holidays". It's not a religious issue, but a political one. Any hint of "pandering to the minority" is not tolerated well.

[Captain Oates 911]

I know lots of "Christians" that really only celebrate the secular aspects of Christmas that have a problem with "Happy Holidays". It's not a religious issue, but a political one. Any hint of "pandering to the minority" is not tolerated well.

I sometimes think that I am the only person who likes the constitution and accepts it both in word and in spirit.

Making it illegal for non believers to hold public office (some states) etc etc and PUBLIC officials talking about god all the time is not what the constitution was about

If we had a non believer president saying how wonderful it was to have a mid winter holiday without god coming into it, christians would feel aggrieved and rightly so

It is not a theocracy; religion or lack of it should be a personal matter and politicians should have to put $10k in the unemployment fund swear box every time they said 'god'

It's not supposed to be Iran with christians instead of muslims

Edited December 23, 2010 by Alan the Red

[chri'stina 190]

You would think that hearing facts like these would take the wind out of the sails of some of the haters here. I am starting to see that they really don't care much about facts though. It seems that ideologues, no matter what the ideology, are immune to facts and reason. It is too bad that so much of the news media is becoming dominated by these right wing ideologues. The many weak-minded out there just accept all the BS as fact and cannot be dissuaded because they like justification to continue believing in their ignorant and racist ideas.

For all of you out there that are irritated by Sofiyya's posts, could you at least have the decency to clearly and unambiguously acknowledge that it is the act of terrorism itself that is wrong and that terrorist does NOT equal muslim any more than does terrorist equal christian. You can rail against the 'other' group out there all you want but the only group you have a chance to change is your own. The true patriot is the one that seeks to clean up the problems of his own country so that all within can hold their heads a little higher. Surely we can all agree about that?

I think some people completely ignore facts, on purpose. They either are writing stuff just to see how mad it makes someone else, or are seriously delusional. Trying to reason with irrational people is tiresome. I've tried many times.

A lot of this stuff is completely ridiculous - those who are obsessed with terrorism, who seem to be so supportive of Christian values, yet are they even presenting real Christian values in their posts?? To me they aren't. It's disgusting to me.

[james&olya 1,121]

The US never was a Christian culture. The founding fathers, some of whom were deists, some of whom abhorred and reviled Christianity, were above all secularists. They were Republicans, resolute in their intention to build a nation fundamentally opposed to the Royalist, borderline-theocratic principles then characteristic of Britain and British rule.

Look at Protestant-Catholic conflict in the UK, at the pre-Enlightenment tyranny of a Christian-run Europe, at the Catholic Church's repugnantly dogmatic approach to AIDS and contraception, despite being very well aware of the influence it wields over most African nations.

It should strike you only as expected that the US boasts a relatively tame history of religious fundamentalism, and only with fear that there is growing support now to undermine the tenets that have ensured this is the case. Demonizing one religion while demanding your compatriots adhere to the "principles" of another is about as unpatriotic as you can get.

[james&olya 1,121]

Tell it to the politicians they need telling

Not one of them can't get three sentences out without referring to god

If 60% of the population were non believers they would drop that instantly - thats how sincere they are

I sincerly thank the Jews for turning 'happy christmas' into 'happy holidays' - a small victory but worth it

The christians look like they are sucking lemons when they have to say that on telly

what a hoot

I agree with most of what you say. One thing that bothers me is why we cannot accept the word christmas without implying a belief in the christian god, The word holiday is just as problematic, Holy-day, get it? Rudolph, frosty, the grinch, and many other traditions are added on to what began as a pagan holiday. Christianity added their traditions but it is based on pagan customs and has a lot of modern-day secular content as well. It is celebrated in cultures world-wide, many with very few christians. I think we can accept the word as popularly used in spite of the roots of the word (not the holiday itself).

[Captain Oates 911]

I agree with most of what you say. One thing that bothers me is why we cannot accept the word christmas without implying a belief in the christian god, The word holiday is just as problematic, Holy-day, get it? Rudolph, frosty, the grinch, and many other traditions are added on to what began as a pagan holiday. Christianity added their traditions but it is based on pagan customs and has a lot of modern-day secular content as well. It is celebrated in cultures world-wide, many with very few christians. I think we can accept the word as popularly used in spite of the roots of the word (not the holiday itself).

yeah gimme 'mid winter solstice' any time

In the US it's 'the start of winter' and everywhere else its 'mid winter'

I am up to my junk in snow and ice and wolves and wolverines and have been for months and then my wife says 'oh its the start of winter December 21st !

cor blimey

Yes the christians hijacked the start of spring (easter) and the mid winter solstice

bonfire night November 5th is still English though and BIG - the night we celebrate the hanging drawing and quartering of a catholic for a terrorist offense involving explosives

I am amazed we can still get away with that - well, celebrating it anyway

Remember, remember the fifth of November,

Gunpowder treason and plot

There is no reason

Why gunpowder treason

Should ever be forgot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night

Seems some things never change and 400 years later we have a bunch of religious nuts trying to kill people in order to have their own religion become ascendant

.

.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Alan the Red

[Danno 1,228]

So the ideological resolve that drove the founding fathers to establish a secularist state has nothing to do with cultural ambition? Nor the rejection of a culture that championed the opposite values?

Another President why didn't get the "secular state" message as he leads the country in prayer to save the country and the Countries religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUy1ejRq9RE&feature=player_embedded#!

[james&olya 1,121]

Another President why didn't get the "secular state" message as he leads the country in prayer to save the country and the Countries religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUy1ejRq9RE&feature=player_embedded#!

You don't think that we have had some pretty ignorant presidents?

[Danno 1,228]

You don't think that we have had some pretty ignorant presidents?

what exactly do you mean?

Roosevelt wasn't my cup of tea but he was intelligent enough.

[james&olya 1,121]

what exactly do you mean?

Roosevelt wasn't my cup of tea but he was intelligent enough.

My recently deceased father hated FDR in his younger days. But when he retired and found that his social security provded a reasonable income he changed his mind about it. He marveled at how good an idea it actually was. Still voted straight republican though!

[Danno 1,228]

My recently deceased father hated FDR in his younger days. But when he retired and found that his social security provded a reasonable income he changed his mind about it. He marveled at how good an idea it actually was. Still voted straight republican though!

I guess your pop is like many.... all that matter is that they collect more than they put in (which is how SSI works).

I have close ones who are at that stage of life too with the same opinion.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Danno