Merkel: Stand up for Christian Values.

[faust-yusov 103]

It's actually surprising that we can't come up with a number of Christian extremists who have gone into the sort of thing Muslims are dealing with... as you said this is (or was) a Christian culture and with 300 mil. people here it's rather remarkable.

The US never was a Christian culture. The founding fathers, some of whom were deists, some of whom abhorred and reviled Christianity, were above all secularists. They were Republicans, resolute in their intention to build a nation fundamentally opposed to the Royalist, borderline-theocratic principles then characteristic of Britain and British rule.

Look at Protestant-Catholic conflict in the UK, at the pre-Enlightenment tyranny of a Christian-run Europe, at the Catholic Church's repugnantly dogmatic approach to AIDS and contraception, despite being very well aware of the influence it wields over most African nations.

It should strike you only as expected that the US boasts a relatively tame history of religious fundamentalism, and only with fear that there is growing support now to undermine the tenets that have ensured this is the case. Demonizing one religion while demanding your compatriots adhere to the "principles" of another is about as unpatriotic as you can get.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

I am an equal opportunity demonizer of all religions.

[Danno 1,228]

The US never was a Christian culture. The founding fathers, some of whom were deists, some of whom abhorred and reviled Christianity, were above all secularists. They were Republicans, resolute in their intention to build a nation fundamentally opposed to the Royalist, borderline-theocratic principles then characteristic of Britain and British rule.

PLease when you post silly #######, do it one thing at a time and be a little specific.

Not only is your history off, your concept of what a "culture" means is off as well. Example: Culture has little to do with Govt. Even so our history does have a loose connection between faith and Govt.

One of the first acts of Congress was to print bibles.

[faust-yusov 103]

Not only is your history off,

I will happily provide references for the history I cite, should you be so kind as to supply a more precise critique.

your concept of what a "culture" means is off as well. Example: Culture has little to do with Govt. Even so our history does have a loose connection between faith and Govt.

So the ideological resolve that drove the founding fathers to establish a secularist state has nothing to do with cultural ambition? Nor the rejection of a culture that championed the opposite values?

[Danno 1,228]

I will happily provide references for the history I cite, should you be so kind as to supply a more precise critique.

So the ideological resolve that drove the founding fathers to establish a secularist state has nothing to do with cultural ambition? Nor the rejection of a culture that championed the opposite values?

Look more at what the founders did and you will see the founders were hardly the Secularists you believe.

Why would a totally secular body of politic take tax money and hire a CONGRESSIONAL Chaplin, and open each session in prayer?

[Captain Oates 911]

PLease when you post silly #######, do it one thing at a time and be a little specific.

Not only is your history off, your concept of what a "culture" means is off as well. Example: Culture has little to do with Govt. Even so our history does have a loose connection between faith and Govt.

One of the first acts of Congress was to print bibles.

Yes and the hypocrisy inherent in having a culture which is at odds with the Constitution will play out forever

Christians can't engage in a secular society - they hate it - they want to crush secularists first and other religions next and they want the government to themselves

It's a fact that I can annoy the christians much more by keeping them out of public life than I can be declaring their tenets to be irrational and false

Santa Claus is much better in his acceptance of all people - all he requires is that we believe in HIM and honor HIM and pray to HIM every night and recognize that he is the creator of all presents that arrive down the chimney and he is the one true SANTA and all others are false

ps a BMW x drive 5 series - red - please Lord grovel grovel

Edited December 23, 2010 by Alan the Red

[Danno 1,228]

Yes and the hypocrisy inherent in having a culture which is at odds with the Constitution will play out forever

Christians can't engage in a secular society - they hate it - they want to crush secularists first and other religions next and they want the government to themselves

It's a fact that I can annoy the christians much more by keeping them out of public life than I can be declaring their tenets to be irrational and false

Santa Claus is much better in his acceptance of all people - all he requires is that we believe in HIM and honor HIM and pray to HIM every night and recognize that he is the creator of all presents that arrive down the chimney and he is the one true SANTA and all others are false

ps a BMW x drive 5 series - red - please Lord grovel grovel

Ahhh actually it was Christians who created this "secular society" (as you wrongly term it).

Christians who knew it best to keep denominational control far away from Gov't and Gov't far away from controlling the denominations across this country.

Even so, in a non-denominational way faith has always had a central acknowledgment of Govt.

If all the Christians were to die off tomorrow (Your Christmas wish came true) we would still be a nation which relies on faith, be it Muslim or what ever.

Lets do another question shall we?

-Which President lead the nation in the longest national prayer, Which President and how long?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Yes and the hypocrisy inherent in having a culture which is at odds with the Constitution will play out forever

Christians can't engage in a secular society - they hate it - they want to crush secularists first and other religions next and they want the government to themselves

It's a fact that I can annoy the christians much more by keeping them out of public life than I can be declaring their tenets to be irrational and false

Santa Claus is much better in his acceptance of all people - all he requires is that we believe in HIM and honor HIM and pray to HIM every night and recognize that he is the creator of all presents that arrive down the chimney and he is the one true SANTA and all others are false

ps a BMW x drive 5 series - red - please Lord grovel grovel

Thats not true. You are stereotyping here.

[Captain Oates 911]

Ahhh actually it was Christians who created this "secular society" (as you wrongly term it).

Christians who knew it best to keep denominational control far away from Gov't and Gov't far away from controlling the denominations across this country.

Even so, in a non-denominational way faith has always had a central acknowledgment of Govt.

If all the Christians were to die off tomorrow (Your Christmas wish came true) we would still be a nation which relies on faith, be it Muslim or what ever.

Lets do another question shall we?

-Which President lead the nation in the longest national prayer, Which President and how long?

I didn't say we had a secular society - I said christians can't engage in one - it's against their nature

Don't misquote me and don't tell me what my christmas wish is. It's enough we have Sarah inventing things and mischarecterising without that spawning imitators

Only speak for yourself please

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I didn't say we had a secular society - I said christians can't engage in one - it's against their nature

Don't misquote me and don't tell me what my christmas wish is. It's enough we have Sarah inventing things and mischarecterising without that spawning imitators

Only speak for yourself please

Why not? Please leave out stereotypes.

[Captain Oates 911]

Thats not true. You are stereotyping here.

What Santa isnt true ? coal in your stocking for sure

Are you saying it 's all not true ? If you are referring to a single statement then define which one and say why you think it isn't true

Otherwise Santa is going to think you are talking about him and his eternal grotto will be unavailable to you

[Captain Oates 911]

Why not? Please leave out stereotypes.

Christians can't engage in a secular society because they are directed to evangelize which is another word for conquer

It is their duty to save people from a non-tithing existence

If I believed that not saving someone meant they would spend eternity in hell, what sort of Christian would I be to leave them like that ?

I would be bound to try and save them and erase their disbelief

So that is what they do

That is why a secular society is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with immediately like a leaking sewer

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

What Santa isnt true ? coal in your stocking for sure

Are you saying it 's all not true ? If you are referring to a single statement then define which one and say why you think it isn't true

Otherwise Santa is going to think you are talking about him and his eternal grotto will be unavailable to you

lol not the Santa part. The part that Christians can't except a secular society.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Christians can't engage in a secular society because they are directed to evangelize which is another word for conquer

It is their duty to save people from a non-tithing existence

If I believed that not saving someone meant they would spend eternity in hell, what sort of Christian would I be to leave them like that ?

I would be bound to try and save them and erase their disbelief

So that is what they do

That is why a secular society is unacceptable and needs to be dealt with immediately like a leaking sewer

But at the end of the day, society can't force people to have a certain faith, so it would all be for not. You could force people to worship Christ in public but it wouldn't be in their heart. Therefore its better that society is secular. Basically everyone must come to their own decision in the end.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Sousuke

[Captain Oates 911]

But at the end of the day, society can't force people to have a certain faith, so it would all be for not. You could force people to worship Christ in public but it wouldn't be in their heart. Therefore its better that society is secular. Basically everyone must come to their own decision in the end.

Tell it to the politicians they need telling

Not one of them can't get three sentences out without referring to god

If 60% of the population were non believers they would drop that instantly - thats how sincere they are

I sincerly thank the Jews for turning 'happy christmas' into 'happy holidays' - a small victory but worth it

The christians look like they are sucking lemons when they have to say that on telly

what a hoot