Merkel: Stand up for Christian Values.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

With all that talk about weak minded people being mislead...

Waddo you say we place a little bet over who gets praise for the next bomb going off... Jesus Or Muhammad?

Ya in?

Didn't think so.

You are uninterested in terrorists that aren't Muslim because your preferred media doesn't cover them. That makes them negligent and leaves you ignorant. There's no reason to remain ignorant except that if you educate yourself, your ability to honestly blame Muslims and Islam for everything is gone. Without it, your arguments are even more specious than they are now.

The fact that more terrorism is not limited, nor even dominated by Muslims is lost on you because you've made the willful choice not to acknowledge it.

That's ok, others will know. I'll make sure of it. During more than 20 years as a human rights worker, I filled my files, my library and my media full of examples.

Christian Rebels Wage a War of Terror in Uganda

By JAMES C. McKINLEY Jr.

Published: March 5, 1997 New York Times

KITGUM, Uganda, Feb. 28— The Lord's Resistance Army strolled into the village of Palabek one recent morning, a ragged bunch of teen-age boys with machine-guns and machetes. They announced that they were looking for three deserters whom they had abducted from the same village a few months earlier, witnesses said.

They did not find them. So they rounded up nine women and a little girl and took them down to a nearby river bank to interrogate them about the missing boys. That afternoon, growing tired of asking questions, they made the women lie face down on the river bank. Then they went down the line, attacking each woman with stones and a bayonet, a survivor said.

''They are just criminals who came from Sudan,'' said Eveline Achan, a 30-year-old woman who said her wounds had been received in the attack. ''They made us lie down. Don't look at them, they said. And then they killed us one at a time. I was the only one who escaped. They thought I was dead.''

A year after Uganda's President, Yoweri Museveni, vowed to wipe out the insurgency in the north of this central African country, the bloodthirsty gangs of self-styled revolutionaries and Christian fundamentalist rebels known as the Lord's Resistance Army have not only survived, but are stepping up their campaign of terror.

Theirs is a familiar kind of warfare in this part of the world, repeated in different forms in Rwanda, Burundi and eastern Zaire. Though the rebels claim to be fighting to overthrow Mr. Museveni, their war consists mainly of killing civilians, sowing terror in the countryside and making it appear to Ugandans and the outside world that the central Government cannot control the nation.

''It's not what you would call a bona fide rebellion in the traditional sense,'' a diplomat in Kampala said, speaking on the condition of anonymity. ''I would call them terrorists.''

Militarily, the rebels lack the resources to topple the President, Western diplomats say. They have little support among the people. They survive mostly on the charity of the neighboring Sudan, which arms them to retaliate against Uganda for supporting rebel groups in southern Sudan.

''I don't think their intention is to overthrow the Government,'' said John Bosco Oryem, the chairman of the Kitgum council. ''They are just being used as a whip by Sudan.''

Since January, the rebels have stepped up their raids, burning farms and schools and killing at least 400 people in the districts of Kitgum and Gulu, local authorities said. They have also abducted hundreds of young men and women, marching them to training camps in the Sudan, where their leader, Joseph Kony, holds court.

The rebel group began in 1986 as the Holy Spirit Movement, a Christian fundamentalist revolt under the leadership of a cult leader, Alice Lakwena, who claimed to give her followers immunity from bullets by anointing them with holy water.

The holy water didn't work, and the movement was crushed by the army. Miss Lakwena fled to Kenya, where she was imprisoned in 1987. But with Sudanese help, Mr. Kony revived the revolt and has been plaguing Mr. Museveni since 1990.

Mr. Kony is a former faith healer who wears white robes and claims to talk directly to God. His followers embrace an eclectic group of beliefs, including prohibitions against riding bicycles, killing pigs and eating white-feathered chickens. Punishment is severe: the rebels have chopped off the feet of young men caught riding bicycles.

The recent attacks have devastated the northern provinces, forcing more than 220,000 people to flee their farms at a time when they would normally be harvesting.

With agriculture grinding to a halt and crowds of displaced people jamming towns and refugee camps, the World Food Program, in a $6.7 million relief effort, has begun shipping tons of food into the region to avert famine.

''The big question is, will the security situation allow them to go back to their farms before the March rains?'' asked Herve L. Cheuzeville, an emergency coordinator for the World Food Program in Kitgum. ''We are really praying they can go back to the fields in March. If they can't, it will be a disaster. In six months it will be much worse.''

All along the main roads leading from Kitgum toward the Sudan one can see the rebels' handiwork. There are burned-out farmhouses every mile or so. Here and there the ruins of churches and schools can be seen. There are few people walking on the normally crowded route, but truckloads of soldiers pass by in a dusty whoosh, on their way to search for the rebels.

On some farms mangoes are rotting on trees and chickens run wild through the ashy ruins. Still, few of the people in makeshift camps in the towns and trading centers are brave enough to venture back to their farms to get food.

Gabriel Onen is typical of many of the 4,000 farmers who are now camped out around an old hotel in Kitgum town. He was shot in the leg during a rebel attack last September and still uses a crutch. He stayed in his village, however, until another attack just before Christmas. It was too much, he said. He packed up a few belongings and took his wife and five children to town.

''I am not able to do anything,'' he said, two dirty children clinging to his good leg. ''I don't know when I can go home. The village is empty. They are all in the centers now.''

The success of the rebels' tactics has undermined Mr. Museveni's standing among Ugandans, even if he won election last May in a landslide and is presiding over an economic boom.

It is a measure of the war's importance to Mr. Museveni that he has personally taken charge of the counter-insurgency operation, placing his brother Salim Saleh in command. The President spends weeks at a time in Gulu, overseeing the forces. Heavy artillery and helicopters have been brought into the north.

The attacks persist, however, despite the President's refusal to negotiate with Mr. Kony and his boasts that he will trap and execute the rebel leader. Some diplomats suspect the Government's effort is half-hearted. ''More and more people are leaning to the view that Museveni's people are not serious about it,'' a diplomat said.

Government officials point out that it is difficult to eradicate a determined terrorist group using hit-and-run tactics over a 7,000-square-mile area.

Still, military officials say they are making progress. Recently, Ugandan soldiers ambushed a column of rebels at Aswa Ranch, near Kitgum, killing two and rescuing more than 20 youths who had been abducted earlier.

One reason Mr. Kony's group has continued to find recruits is the strong undercurrent of anger and discontent in the north. Dominated by the Acholi tribe, the north has always been a stronghold of opposition to Mr. Museveni, a southerner. It was the northern provinces that produced Uganda's last three dictators -- Idi Amin, Milton Obote and Tito Okello.

When Mr. Museveni's rebel army swept to power in January 1986, he defeated not only Mr. Obote, but also Tito Okello's mainly Acholi forces. Since then the northern Acholi tribes lost much of their influence in government, and, as a result, the north has lagged behind the south in development. During the elections last May, the Acholi voted overwhelmingly for the opposition candidate, Dr. Paul Ssemogerere.

One of the ugly ironies of the conflict is that most of the victims of the violence are the very people Mr. Kony could convert to his cause -- impoverished Acholi farmers and merchants.

Victor Oloya, 15, was abducted by the rebels on Jan. 11 and taken to Kitwan in the Sudan, where he said he was thrown in with thousands of young men in a training camp, before he ran away. He said Mr. Kony addressed the troops on Sundays at outdoor church services.

In his sermons, the leader seemed to want to punish the Acholi for not joining the rebellion, Mr. Oloya said. ''He says if the Acholi don't accept him, he will kill off them both in Kitgum and Gulu,'' Mr. Oloya said. ''People don't like what he's saying, but you can't say anything. You just keep quiet.''

Most of Mr. Kony's troops are impressionable teen-agers who are told that if they run away they will be killed.

''It's mostly young teen-age children,'' said Sisto Okello, who was abducted by the rebels in January and escaped last week. ''The children do these atrocities because they are ordered to do so. If they are told to be ruthless, they are absolutely ruthless, and they can kill.''

Photo: Eveline Achan, 30, says she is the only survivor of a rebel attack on Palabek in which eight other Ugandan women and a girl were killed. (James C. McKinley/The New York Times)(pg. A10) Map of Uganda showing location of Kitgum: Rebels are said to have killed 400 people in the Kitgum region. (pg. A10)

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You would think that hearing facts like these would take the wind out of the sails of some of the haters here. I am starting to see that they really don't care much about facts though. It seems that ideologues, no matter what the ideology, are immune to facts and reason. It is too bad that so much of the news media is becoming dominated by these right wing ideologues. The many weak-minded out there just accept all the BS as fact and cannot be dissuaded because they like justification to continue believing in their ignorant and racist ideas.

For all of you out there that are irritated by Sofiyya's posts, could you at least have the decency to clearly and unambiguously acknowledge that it is the act of terrorism itself that is wrong and that terrorist does NOT equal muslim any more than does terrorist equal christian. You can rail against the 'other' group out there all you want but the only group you have a chance to change is your own. The true patriot is the one that seeks to clean up the problems of his own country so that all within can hold their heads a little higher. Surely we can all agree about that?

Most of them have seen it all before, James; these debates have gone on here for years. Still, while smearing Islam and Muhammad is given brownie points, any hint that Jesus has ever been used to justify terrorism or brutality is viewed as an attack on Christianity. Reality is not their strong suit; it deflates their agenda.

[james&olya 1,121]

I see that Sofiyya believes in the Powell doctrine when it comes to the war of ideas!

[james&olya 1,121]

Most of them have seen it all before, James; these debates have gone on here for years. Still, while smearing Islam and Muhammad is given brownie points, any hint that Jesus has ever been used to justify terrorism or brutality is viewed as an attack on Christianity. Reality is not their strong suit; it deflates their agenda.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I see that Sofiyya believes in the Powell doctrine when it comes to the war of ideas!

The Powell Doctrine has deep roots in Sun Tsu's The Art of War , a great debate resource.

Bigots really hate history because they don't know history Whether they realize it or not, our favorite board bigots have been engaging in a standard practice of war requiring dehumanization of the perceived enemy, in this case, Muslims and Islam. It's pretty transparent.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Sofiyya

[Dan and Judy 614]

why are you guys always picking on terrorists?

[Danno 1,228]

The Powell Doctrine has deep roots in Sun Tsu's The Art of War , a great debate resource.

Bigots really hate history because they don't know history Whether they realize it or not, our favorite board bigots have been engaging in a standard practice of war requiring dehumanization of the perceived enemy, in this case, Muslims and Islam. It's pretty transparent.

The disconnect seems to be: some of us are focused on history and some on the here and now.

... did anyone take me up on the bet?

[Danno 1,228]

The Powell Doctrine has deep roots in Sun Tsu's The Art of War , a great debate resource.

Bigots really hate history because they don't know history Whether they realize it or not, our favorite board bigots have been engaging in a standard practice of war requiring dehumanization of the perceived enemy, in this case, Muslims and Islam. It's pretty transparent.

And let me further add,

WE do have an enemy, it's not you and it's not muslims in general but it is specific muslims.

If you believe I am one who has contributed to -dehumanizing muslims as a whole, share some examples, maybe I can learn from that.

I am neither a fan nor enemy of Muslims.

I am concerned for the future of -Muslim meets Western culture- experience.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The disconnect seems to be: some of us are focused on history and some on the here and now.

... did anyone take me up on the bet?

Muslim terrorists cite Allah, not Muhammad. Maybe Christian terrorists cite Jesus. Who knows, since the western press doesn't report on them.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

And let me further add,

WE do have an enemy, it's not you and it's not muslims in general but it is specific muslims.

If you believe I am one who has contributed to -dehumanizing muslims as a whole, share some examples, maybe I can learn from that.

I am neither a fan nor enemy of Muslims.

I am concerned for the future of -Muslim meets Western culture- experience.

Is that an admission that you count yourself among the bigots, Danno?

Muslims are new to the west, so the experience is ongoing; there's not much to meet.

The collective posting of negative information about Muslims with no counterbalance serves to dehumanize us. You have been part of that for a while. Such threads have not contributed to building bridges, understanding or discovery of what we have in common. And, the constant denial that the abiliy to distort texts to justify violence cuts across religions lends to an air of undeserved superiority for those who apply a double standard in judging Islam.

Let me ask again, what is it anyone wishes to accomplish by posting negative thread after negative thread about Muslims? What is the result you want? Also, why don't you post anything positive, if this is a subject of interest to you?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Correction: Muslims are NOT new to the west, is what that should say.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

WE do have an enemy, it's not you and it's not muslims in general but it is specific Muslims.

So are you agreeing that it is the minority Fundamentalists amongst the larger Muslim populace who are "the Enemy"?

Would you agree that Fundamentalist Christians (as many homebrew "Militias" and White Power Organizations are) also present a terrorist threat to the greater peaceful population. After all it wasn't a Muslim who bombed the Federal Building in OK City or Muslims who fired on Federal agents in Waco Tx or at Ruby Ridge.

[james&olya 1,121]

So are you agreeing that it is the minority Fundamentalists amongst the larger Muslim populace who are "the Enemy"?

Would you agree that Fundamentalist Christians (as many homebrew "Militias" and White Power Organizations are) also present a terrorist threat to the greater peaceful population. After all it wasn't a Muslim who bombed the Federal Building in OK City or Muslims who fired on Federal agents in Waco Tx or at Ruby Ridge.

[james&olya 1,121]

It only plays into the hand of the terrorist to react the way the narrow-minded bigots do and demonize all of Islam for the actions of the few. They do not seek understanding, they seek to bring about violent confrontation. Why any rational person wants to reward their actions by giving them what they want is beyond me. Does anyone really think we are better off resolving these problems with even more death and destruction instead of looking for a way to bring about mutual understanding and tolerance? If you agree that mutual understanding and tolerance is both possible and desirable, then you need to ask yourself if you are being part of the problem or part of the solution. Think about it. Please!

[faust-yusov 103]

When you observe the immediacy with which the conservative media whipped up such vitriolic, international furore over the "Ground Zero Mosque", it's patently evident that we ought to be bending over backwards to do the very opposite of what Merkel proposes.

To those championing her stance: are you not embarrased that "Christian values" so ubiquitously prevailed in our culture several months ago as to ensure that blind indignation took the place of reasoned response? That, when questioned, most of Park51's most vehement opponents were not aware that Faisal Rauf and Daisy Khan's objective was to promote inter-faith discussion, that they were Sufis (a tradition that Bin Laden abhors), that the building was an existing place of worship for Muslims, and - most saliently, and most ignored - that it in fact stood fully two blocks apart from Ground Zero?

More than ever this is a time to vocalise the absolute antithesis of "us and them." Merkel seeks to stir the dormant Christian ideology in "her" people for only its innately divisive property, and that she does so under the politically expedient guise of "religion" - that which so effectively safeguards jingoistic bigotry from question - should repulse us.

Edward Said once said that "part of morality is not to feel at home in one's home." At a time when the terrifyingly audible Islamophobic media seek constantly to rally us against the "un-Christian", the "un-American", we would do well to take heed of that sentiment. Indeed, it is a time to be a little less comfortable defining ourselves by our nationalities and our faiths, and a time to vilify only the intolerant - be they strapped with explosives, or espousing their agenda, conceitedly appeasing our entrenched sensibilities, in millions of living rooms, in millions of homes.

Edited December 22, 2010 by faust-yusov