NM Governor-elect to revoke illegal aliens' drivers’ licenses

[peejay 327]

So didn't I just say they (EWI's) would only be affected when they renew? You quoted me as if you wanted to argue with my comment. I don't see any argument in what you wrote. The news article quoted said the governor is going to "revoke" driver's licenses issued under the old method. What does "revoke" mean? Going through the driver's roster and knocking on the door of everyone with a Hispanic surname? I don't think so. Therefore renewal is where they will be stymied. Some will leave as in your example, some will not.

SS match. Do you like that? I don't particularly. Our SS numbers were never meant to be a way to identify us. What about aliens using stolen SS numbers? USC's for that matter? The thief usually takes on the name of the person's SS they are using. Does not seem very effective to me.

Before you go jumping all stiff-legged and claiming I support illegal entry - let it be known that I do not. Let it also be known that I am leery of any newer, more invasive method of restricting my movement in this great country.

I know you probably want to believe "revoke" is some sort of code word for harassing Hispanics, but you haven't presented any evidence that this is what is proposed. What will likely happen is that mostly Hispanics will be affected since 80%+ of illegal aliens are Hispanic. Illegal aliens of nationalities and races other than Hispanics will get the same treatment too.

I see nothing wrong with SS match. I wouldn't want 50 illegal aliens getting 50 licenses with my name and number nor would I want someone else using my number at all whether my name is used too or not. It is still identity theft. Who would want their ID stolen or misused? I'm glad they are doing it.

I don't see how you perceive that your movement has been restricted. Mine along with my foreign wife's and foreign stepdaughter's has never been restricted. I am as free as I was 40 years ago. Although there are some neighborhoods here in Houston I wouldn't go into for my own safety, but it is my choice to not go there.

[ceadsearc 516]

Just goes to prove that hispanics are the current category of "undesirables" in this country.

[Pooky 3,825]

The result of these types of measures will be an increase in driving costs for those who are legal and buy insurance. It's one of those reactionary ideas that gets the right's juices rising but actually has no positive outcome on the problems that it's supposed to address and has a negative affect on everyone else. Brilliant.

I've not seen much fanfare about this at all, beyond the initial article, so I can't say whether anyone's juices are rising, or not. The positive outcome I can see is the return to the rule of law on this issue in New Mexico, instead of the open disregard for the law shown previously.

And the argument about costs? If that is the result of respecting the law, then so be it. Encouraging the flouting of the law to save a few bucks here or there is more counter-productive, in my opinion, as it also discourages the general disrespect of the law. And that is a slippery slope I'd like this country to avoid, or at least stop sliding any further down.

Just goes to prove that hispanics illegal aliens are the current category of "undesirables" in this country.

Just a few small repairs

[peejay 327]

I agree with this. I don't think NOT verifying their status is the right way to go, nor do I see any reason not to START verifying statuses of new applicants. I just think it's pointless and ineffective to begin revoking licenses, and depending on how it is done may well infringe on the civil liberties of people who are NOT here illegally - USCs, even.

Driving is a privilege granted at the discretion of government. If you do not want to meet the requirements to get or renew a license...take the bus, walk, ride a bicycle, etc., etc. Driving is not a civil right or an unalienable right.

[ceadsearc 516]

I've not seen much fanfare about this at all, beyond the initial article, so I can't say whether anyone's juices are rising, or not. The positive outcome I can see is the return to the rule of law on this issue in New Mexico, instead of the open disregard for the law shown previously.

And the argument about costs? If that is the result of respecting the law, then so be it. Encouraging the flouting of the law to save a few bucks here or there is more counter-productive, in my opinion, as it also discourages the general disrespect of the law. And that is a slippery slope I'd like this country to avoid, or at least stop sliding any further down.

Just a few small repairs

Ah, but we have so many laws that allow immigrants from other nationalities to get here easily. (Hello, mail order brides! Like allowing women from the former USSR and Asia to meet men through "special" dating sites and immigrate here is really a whole lot better.) And rarely do people call illegal immigrants from other countries out at all. In any case, I'll hold my peace now until I've seen results of this new law, I've said before and I'll say it again that I'm not encouraging flouting the law, I'm encouraging enforcing it in a way that is effective. I would be absolutely stunned if this made ANY difference in illegal immigration in New Mexico. Here's a fun fact - Florida already did this years ago and you can't possibly try to claim their illegal population is low. But, I'll wait and see, and maybe you will all prove me wrong.

[Peikko 1,575]

I've not seen much fanfare about this at all, beyond the initial article, so I can't say whether anyone's juices are rising, or not. The positive outcome I can see is the return to the rule of law on this issue in New Mexico, instead of the open disregard for the law shown previously.

And the argument about costs? If that is the result of respecting the law, then so be it. Encouraging the flouting of the law to save a few bucks here or there is more counter-productive, in my opinion, as it also discourages the general disrespect of the law. And that is a slippery slope I'd like this country to avoid, or at least stop sliding any further down.

Just a few small repairs

what 'general disrespect of the law'? (I think yo mean encourages disrespect ) I hear people say this all the time and I am aware that those on the far right promote this view (for obvious reasons, it's not the first time politics has been used to demonize groups in order to further an agenda and it will not be the last) but suggesting that somehow crossing a border without documentation is just the start of a life of criminal activity, very disingenuous. I know some people today regard crossing a border illegally as similar to murder but legally it is nothing of the sort.

Is there a problem with large numbers of undocumented migrants? Absolutely, it's not a good for anyone, not legal residents, citizens or migrants. One solution to this would be to issue more visas for migrant workers from Mexico instead of pretending that they steal jobs that legal citizens would do given the opportunity. By and large that's #######. Is that a great solution? Not really, having an economy that relies on a bedrock of extremely low waged workers is also pretty screwed up, but the solution to that is not to seal up the borders and demonize our next door neighbours.

[Peikko 1,575]

Driving is a privilege granted at the discretion of government. If you do not want to meet the requirements to get or renew a license...take the bus, walk, ride a bicycle, etc., etc. Driving is not a civil right or an unalienable right.

Do you really think that makes any sense? No one has ever suggested that driving is constitutionally protected.

[Pooky 3,825]

what 'general disrespect of the law'? (I think yo mean encourages disrespect ) I hear people say this all the time and I am aware that those on the far right promote this view (for obvious reasons, it's not the first time politics has been used to demonize groups in order to further an agenda and it will not be the last) but suggesting that somehow crossing a border without documentation is just the start of a life of criminal activity, very disingenuous. I know some people today regard crossing a border illegally as similar to murder but legally it is nothing of the sort.

Is there a problem with large numbers of undocumented migrants? Absolutely, it's not a good for anyone, not legal residents, citizens or migrants. One solution to this would be to issue more visas for migrant workers from Mexico instead of pretending that they steal jobs that legal citizens would do given the opportunity. By and large that's #######. Is that a great solution? Not really, having an economy that relies on a bedrock of extremely low waged workers is also pretty screwed up, but the solution to that is not to seal up the borders and demonize our next door neighbours.

I made no mention of illegal aliens' disrespect for the law. Nor was it my intention to do so.

The article is about a particular State's previous disrespect for the laws of this country and its new Governor's stated intent to reverse this policy. It may just be a small start, but I doubt very much it will be the last measure of its kind in New Mexico.

What would go a long way to diminishing the illegal alien issue is if all governmental authorities actually respected and enforced the laws. That would be a good start.

[peejay 327]

Do you really think that makes any sense? No one has ever suggested that driving is constitutionally protected.

I believe there are enough people floating around that do believe that driving is a right. I've seen a few here on VJ. Just stating the obvious. Sorry it upset you. Hope my post didn't ruin your day.

[Peikko 1,575]

I made no mention of illegal aliens' disrespect for the law. Nor was it my intention to do so.

The article is about a particular State's previous disrespect for the laws of this country and its new Governor's stated intent to reverse this policy. It may just be a small start, but I doubt very much it will be the last measure of its kind in New Mexico.

What would go a long way to diminishing the illegal alien issue is if all governmental authorities actually respected and enforced the laws. That would be a good start.

Fair enough, but the argument that the State is disrespecting the law by adopting a pragmatic approach to real problems is also a false one. I don't think more and more harsh enforcement of laws targeting undocumented migrants is any kind of solution. Seriously, in any other area of life do you get hot under the collar about disrespect of the law aside from undocumented migrants? How often do you see a speeding motorist and wish that US citizen were more respectful of the law and tut tut about the disintegration of society that such a disregard generates? I'm betting you consider a speeding motorist less of a threat than an undocumented migrant, correct?

[james&olya 1,121]

Typical liberal mentality:

Turn the criminals into victims and then surrender. Sure...jump over a fence and we'll give you a driver's license. To do otherwise is too expensive.

What sort of moron does not know that it was one of the most liberal presidents ever, the one who brought us that great socialist program called social security, that was the president when pearl harbor was attacked. I know facts are not terribly important to idiot tea-partiers but to the rest of us they are relevant!

[Peikko 1,575]

I believe there are enough people floating around that do believe that driving is a right. I've seen a few here on VJ. Just stating the obvious. Sorry it upset you. Hope my post didn't ruin your day.

Are you pretending that US society doesn't revolve (no pun intended) around the automobile? It's very difficult to be a non driver and live in the US, but that doesn't mean that those who encounter difficulties because of the lack of facilities for those who do not drive consider being able to drive as a constitutionally protected right. What a dramatist you are.

Do you derive pleasure from guessing my state of mind? Seems a pointless waste of time to me.

[Pooky 3,825]

Fair enough, but the argument that the State is disrespecting the law by adopting a pragmatic approach to real problems is also a false one. I don't think more and more harsh enforcement of laws targeting undocumented migrants is any kind of solution. Seriously, in any other area of life do you get hot under the collar about disrespect of the law aside from undocumented migrants? How often do you see a speeding motorist and wish that US citizen were more respectful of the law and tut tut about the disintegration of society that such a disregard generates? I'm betting you consider a speeding motorist less of a threat than an undocumented migrant, correct?

Is it a pragmatic approach to forbid staff at the DMV to even enquire about at an applicant's legal status? Because that's what New Mexico was doing. That's what I call disrespect of the law. The main result of the incoming Governor's policy statement is to allow DMV staff to carry out their responsibility in accordance with the law.

I'm not calling for more and more harsh enforcement of the law, just that it is enforced in the first place.

Again, where did I mention illegal aliens? This is about the State of New Mexico returning, in some small part, to the rule of law, where it had previously been in complete disregard.

[Peikko 1,575]

Is it a pragmatic approach to forbid staff at the DMV to even enquire about at an applicant's legal status? Because that's what New Mexico was doing. That's what I call disrespect of the law. The main result of the incoming Governor's policy statement is to allow DMV staff to carry out their responsibility in accordance with the law.

I'm not calling for more and more harsh enforcement of the law, just that it is enforced in the first place.

Again, where did I mention illegal aliens? This is about the State of New Mexico returning, in some small part, to the rule of law, where it had previously been in complete disregard.

I am sure it was, yes. By allowing undocumented migrants to get a driving license they then had the ability to buy insurance which protects all drivers in NM. That is very pragmatic. I still don't see how allowing undocumented migrants to drive legally promotes lawlessness, perhaps you can elaborate further?

How has this nothing to do with undocumented migrants when the question of whether or not you can obtain a license to drive a car is dependent on your legal status? Not sure what else this can be about. If there were no undocumented migrants no one would be asking about an applicants legal status, now would they?

Edited December 24, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[mawilson 2,133]

I don't see how it aids illegal immigration when a drivers license is NOT used as a means to verify immigration status.

It is here (NY/NJ). NY and NJ licenses issued to non-citizens have a "TEMPORARY VISITOR" designation with a status expiration date.

Employers can, and in fact, do use it to verify status.