The D.R.E.A.M. Act is dead.

[sachinky 465]

no thanks!

Figured as much. Oh well, thanks for playing!

[LaL 418]

So no they're technically not criminals but they have demonstrated a lack of respect for our laws.

what? really? a child who knows nothing other than their life here - demonstrates lack of respect for our laws? lol.

Figured as much. Oh well, thanks for playing!

Nah - I just don't care to have that discussion with you.

[sachinky 465]

It's all really black and white with you, isn't it?

You had to stand in a line that you thought was too long, and now damned be everyone else who doesn't suffer like you did.

Yes, it's because I'm still just bitter about the whole deal. Give it a rest, will you? I not sure why you keep coming back to this. I'm not the only one who waited. I'm not the only one who vented about it. I'm not the only one who is against the DREAM Act.

Having gone through this process, though, I do care more about the plight of legal immigrants screwed over by the process (while trying to do it the right way) than I do about some kid whose parents made the wrong choice and put them in this unfortunate position solely through their actions. Does it suck to be them? Sure, I have some limited sympathy for them. But why this is the US government or the taxpayer's problem, I'm not sure.

And yes, for me, it is pretty black and white. I don't think ANYONE should ever benefit from illegal actions. Child or not. Then why have the laws in the first place if you are only going to reward and possibly encourage law-breaking behavior in the future?

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Yes, it's because I'm still just bitter about the whole deal. Give it a rest, will you? I not sure why you keep coming back to this. I'm not the only one who waited. I'm not the only one who vented about it. I'm not the only one who is against the DREAM Act.

Having gone through this process, though, I do care more about the plight of legal immigrants screwed over by the process (while trying to do it the right way) than I do about some kid whose parents made the wrong choice and put them in this unfortunate position solely through their actions. Does it suck to be them? Sure, I have some limited sympathy for them. But why this is the US government or the taxpayer's problem, I'm not sure.

And yes, for me, it is pretty black and white. I don't think ANYONE should ever benefit from illegal actions. Child or not. Then why have the laws in the first place if you are only going to reward and possibly encourage law-breaking behavior in the future?

I think having gone through this process has skewed your perspective. Really I do. And, I wouldn't bring it up if you didn't so often.

You're probably a nice person in real life. But you are pretty bent when it comes to anybody who hasn't walked on the same hot coals you walked on.

And that's not a personal attack. It's demonstrated by what you post.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

what? really? a child who knows nothing other than their life here - demonstrates lack of respect for our laws? lol.

Occasionally the context of what you quote is relevant.

Didn't you read where I mentioned that once they turn 18 they make the choice to continue their illegal presence. Seriously how do they not know that they're illegal? can't go to college because of it, have difficulties finding legit employment because of it, etc... They know their status and make the choice to continue it. At that point they are demonstrating the lack of respect as they have no chosen to continue being here illegally. This is why USCIS gives them 180 days beyond their 18th birthday to leave and avoid being held liable for any illegal presence.

By your reasoning a child who grew up in gangs should never be held accountable for living a gangster lifestyle once they're an adult. After all they know nothing other than their life in a gang!

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Frankly, I don't care as much about children "suffering." *shock, horror, gasp* They lived off the system for several years, possibly leading a better life than they would've back home in Mexico and now they can return home as adults once they turn 18 if they are unable to continue their education and/or find a job. It is the Mexican government's responsibility to look after it's own citizens -- the U.S. government is under no obligation to amend the sins of non-citizen parents.

As far as I'm concerned, if this bill were passed, it would basically convey the message to the thousands of to-be-LEGAL-immigrants waiting in line for official approval -- many of them for years -- that they're all a bunch of suckers. It is such a slap in the face that it readily makes my blood boil.

[LaL 418]

Occasionally the context of what you quote is relevant.

Didn't you read where I mentioned that once they turn 18 they make the choice to continue their illegal presence. Seriously how do they not know that they're illegal? can't go to college because of it, have difficulties finding legit employment because of it, etc... They know their status and make the choice to continue it. At that point they are demonstrating the lack of respect as they have no chosen to continue being here illegally. This is why USCIS gives them 180 days beyond their 18th birthday to leave and avoid being held liable for any illegal presence.

By your reasoning a child who grew up in gangs should never be held accountable for living a gangster lifestyle once they're an adult. After all they know nothing other than their life in a gang!

Thanks for clarifying. I was under the impression you were purporting their whole lives demonstrate lack of respect for laws because in the very next paragraph stating ADDITIONALLY when 18 yada yada. So I was thinking you meant they are willful lifelong lawbreakers and when they turn 18 - they are sooper uber law breakers. Kinda still sounds that way to me TBH.

Your analogy in bold above - also does not make sense to me, nor is it at all my POV. Gang activity nearly always includes some level of criminal activity, whereas a kid growing up here through no fault of their own - is not at all the same thing and could very likely be devoid of criminal activity.

The analogy might apply if the kid crossed the border into a 3rd country, cited because his parents did the same/that's all they know as a defense

Edited December 23, 2010 by LaL

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Your analogy in bold above - also does not make sense to me, nor is it at all my POV. Gang activity nearly always includes some level of criminal activity, whereas a kid growing up here through no fault of their own - is not at all the same thing and could very likely be devoid of criminal activity.

The analogy might apply if the kid crossed the border into a 3rd country, cited because his parents did the same/that's all they know as a defense

For the record, I agree with not holding them accountable until they turn 18 and that includes such things as their parents using false claim of USC or Greencard/Visa to get the kid into the US.

On the other hand, I don't ever accept the "It's the only life I know" defense for anything, this included.

Personally I believe that illegal presence in the US should be a criminal offense just as it is in many other countries (cough ... Mexico ... cough). I guess I see illegal presence as a "gateway crime" so to speak because living that way requires them to violate many other laws (employment, tax, etc) as a lifestyle which in turn just reinforces the idea that laws are irrelevant.

BTW, before anyone accuses me of being racist for my mention of Mexico above I'll tell you I did it because of the hypocrisy of that country regarding Illegal Immigration. Just look at how militant they are against illegal immigrants from Central/South America and yet they issue bogus Consular Identification cards to anyone with brown skin who asks for one in the US! Their reasoning is to make life for the illegals easier here as they need some type of Government issued Official ID for many things.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Bob 4 Anna

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

The United States had 7 amnesties for illegal aliens so far, the last one signed into law in 1986 by cowboy actor Ronald Reagan, a hardcore right wing Republican who had compassion for nobody but money. Reagan closed down all mental hospitals in California and is solely responsible for tens of thousands of mentally ill US citizens who are roaming the streets of California ever since as they have nowhere to go and no ability to make a living.

Make no mistake, there will be a comprehensive immigration reform within the next frew years. Nobody knows how f*cked up that one will be but you can bet that it will have a provision that will give some illegal aliens a pathway to residence and, eventually, US citizenship.

You don't have to like it, you can scream, throw dishes against your kitchen walls, but it will happen. It shows that laws are not static and that lawmakers modify laws when they realize that it makes sense. Those guys are our elected officials, so they do what we want them to do. That's democracy. Get over it.

[Pooky 3,825]

Those guys are our elected officials, so they do what we want them to do.

Since when?

[sjr09 155]

Not personal, illustrated through posts. A child is never a criminal for the action of a parent. To say otherwise is wrong and is a sign the person doesn't actually care about children.

Funny enough accusing me of being a drunk is not?

Luckytxn ask if you drinking again, in a joking way, and not "of being a drunk" But you do appear to be emotionally intoxicated.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Luckytxn ask if you drinking again, in a joking way, and not "of being a drunk" But you do appear to be emotionally intoxicated.

Yes its true, I care for children so when I see statements such as his, I do get a bit emotional on the subject.

And he wasn't joing. It was a personal attack.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Sousuke

[peejay 327]

Yes its true, I care for children so when I see statements such as his, I do get a bit emotional on the subject.

So these (up to) 29 years old illegal alien "children" encompassed in the failed DREAM Act get you emotional? At what point do you stop giving a free pass to "children"? What about the "children" being smuggled into the USA tonight? What about next week, next month, next year, etc.?

If you didn't get it already, these "children" are being used as props by the usual suspects to cast a wider net of inclusion. At what point does this madness stop?

After personally witnessing the bloviating from the usual crowd in the first 1986 "one time only" illegal alien amnesty I'm somewhat jaded, skeptical, and unsympathetic.

[LaL 418]

I'm somewhat jaded, skeptical, and unsympathetic.

somewhat?

[peejay 327]

somewhat?

Of course I am being facetious to mask what I really feel. After 7 illegal alien amnesties encompassing 25 years and millions of illegal aliens while rewarding them with the chain migration of millions of their relatives after breaking numerous long standing immigration and workplace civil/criminal laws. Along with these jokes called "Temporary" Protected Status that have protected millions of illegal aliens for over a decade for breaking numerous immigration and work authorization civil/criminal laws..."somewhat" is an understatement.

If the masses of American people were truly informed of the history of this stupidity and madness by our government along with the shear numbers...they would freak out. Unfortunately, ignorance and propaganda driven indoctrination is bliss. Where is the so-called mainsteam media? I'd call it the lame-stream media like Bernie Goldberg does. The facts are out there. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about illegal immigration, but not to the facts.

These repeated amnesties fix nothing. They are just carefully marketed ploys. In the past they were slipped into broader legislation that went under the radar screen. Now they are marketed because the cat is out of the bag.

Edited December 24, 2010 by peejay