The D.R.E.A.M. Act is dead.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Enter the United States of America illegally and you and your family (including any offspring) face deportation. Nothing wrong with that law.

Exactly.

We made laws against this very thing. These parents broke the law and punished their kids with a burden of criminality. Now they want us to cry for them and reward their criminality.

[luckytxn 2,265]

We already have a thread here and should be merged.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

But compromise didn't happen because this bill has sat there, in some form or another, and never came up until now. And it only came up now so that Democrats could use this bill and these kids for their own political gain. And that is just wrong.

That's not accurate at all. The Dream Act enjoyed broad bipartisan support and its originators were both Democrats and Republicans. Recent polls have shown that the act also was overwhelmingly popular among voters (upwards of 70 percent).

Here's some political commentary:

Today on the Sunday political talk shows, guests from a wide array of the ideological spectrum assailed the GOP for blocking the measure:

NBC

’s ANDREA MITCHELL:

The dumbest thing that the Republicans did was the DREAM Act

. … that is going to turn out to be a real setback for Republicans because these are people who wanted to serve in the military and get educated and contribute to the society.

NEWARK, NJ MAYOR CORY BOOKER: To tell people who’ve been through high school, high school presidents going on to college some of the best brains who have no relation to their home country.

This is crazy. It’s hurting America

.

GOP STRATEGIST MARK MCKINNON: The Republican Party has got to recognize Hispanics are the huge growing demographic in this country. …

We gotta send the right signal to Hispanics in this country in addition to the fact that it’s the right policy

.

FOX NEWS’ JUAN WILLIAMS: The one thing that I regret…is the defeat of the DREAM Act for the immigrants and the immigrant kids. I just think, again,

Republicans play politics with real lives, real people, real aspirations

and they leave the immigration issue on the table when that’s the real business of the American people.

Bill Kristol complained to Williams that the real reason the GOP opposed the measure is because he claimed they didn’t know anything about it. “Do you know how many hearings there were in either house, in the House or the Senate on the DREAM Act over the past two years? Zero,” he said. “You know it’s almost anti-American, Bill,” Williams said in response, adding, “and the reason they couldn’t discuss it was because the talk show hosts in America the right-wing talk show hosts would beat up any Republican who supported a realistic effort.” Watch the compilation:

As usual, Kristol is wrong. As CAP’s Marshall Fitz noted, “this is not a new or complicated bill”:

The basic elements of the DREAM Act are straightforward, well understood, and have been considered numerous times over the last nine years

. It has been introduced every Congress since 2001. It passed the Senate Judiciary Committee by a 16-3 vote in October 2003. And it passed the Senate Judiciary Committee again in 2006 by voice vote as part of the McCain-Kennedy comprehensive bill, which passed the full Senate by a 62-36 margin.

So it seems that Republicans like to blame process when they’re just simply on the wrong side of history.

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/401669/republicans_slammed_for_blocking_dream_act/#paragraph3

[luckytxn 2,265]

Hardly a vast majority. Most also believe that it will encourage illegal immigration.

Rasmussen: Voters Support Idea of DREAM Act

By Elise Foley | 09.21.10 | 2:07 pm

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A Rasmussen poll released today shows that in theory, at least, voters should support the DREAM Act: Most voters in the poll said children brought to the U.S. illegally should get a chance at citizenship if they complete two years of college or participate in the military.

A slight majority — 52 percent — of likely U.S. voters said children brought to the U.S. illegally who complete two years of college should get a path to legal status, while 36 percent said these children should not be given an opportunity to become citizens.

Voters were more supportive of paths to citizenship for illegal immigrant who serve in the military: 78 percent said children brought to the U.S. illegally who serve in the military should get a chance to become citizens.

Rasmussen also found many voters believe such a bill would encourage illegal immigration. It’s an argument some Republicans have used, including Rep. Brian Bilbray (R-Calif.) in an op-ed today. Bilbray linked the DREAM Act and other efforts at so-called “amnesty” for illegal immigrants to the death of border-crossers:

When my colleagues talk about providing amnesty (or “a pathway to citizenship”) they become an accessory to these murders. When they support amnesty, introduce bills that provide a pathway to citizenship and, in the most irresponsible of cases, use amnesty to motivate voters, they tell people: ‘work with the cartels and come across our border illegally, for we will eventually give you amnesty and citizenship.’

Widespread support doesn’t mean the DREAM Act will pass its test this afternoon, of course. The Senate will vote at 2:30 p.m. EST on whether to proceed with the defense authorization bill, to which Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid hopes to add the DREAM Act as an amendment.

link: http://washingtonindependent.com/98160/rasmussen-voters-support-idea-of-dream-act

[luckytxn 2,265]

Poll: 54 percent support DREAM ActBy: CNN Deputy Political Director Paul Steinhauser<br style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: georgia, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; line-height: 1.3em; ">Washington (CNN) - A majority of Americans support a measure that would give legal status to illegal immigrants who came to the U.S. as children if they join the military or go to college, according to a new national survey.

But a Gallup poll released Friday also indicates wide partisan and generational divides over the issue.<br style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: georgia, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; line-height: 1.3em; ">Fifty-four percent of people questioned in the survey say they would vote for the DREAM Act, which would provide a path to citizenship for thousands of young adults currently living in the country illegally, with 42 percent saying they would vote against the bill and four percent unsure.<br style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: georgia, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; line-height: 1.3em; "><br style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: georgia, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; line-height: 1.3em; ">The legislation, formally named the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act, would have affected immigrants who entered the United States illegally as children under the age of 16 and have lived in the country for at least five years. Other requirements include graduating from high-school or obtaining a General Education Development diploma and demonstrating "good moral character."

Even then, only a six-year conditional status would be awarded. Before moving to the next phase, the students would need to meet additionalrequirements - attending college or serving in the military for at least two years, and passing criminal background checks.

Proponents, including President Barack Obama and Democratic leaders, say the bill offers legal standing to young people brought to the United States who have bettered themselves and served their new country, while opponents claim it is a form of amnesty for illegal immigrants.

According to the poll, two-thirds of Democrats say they'd vote for the measure, but that number drops to 57 percent for independent voters and 34 percent for Republicans. Two-thirds of people age 18-34 say they favor the bill, but support drops to 53 percent among those age 35-49, 50 percent among those age 50-64, and down to 43 percent among those age 65 and older.

The survey also indicates non-Hispanic whites divided on the issue, with nearly seven in ten non-whites supportive of the DREAM act.

The Gallup poll was conducted December 3-6, with 1,003 adults nationwide questioned by telephone. The survey's overall sampling error is plus or minus four percentage points.

– CNN's Ted Barrett and Craig Broffman contributed to this report

LINK TO POLL: http://www.gallup.com/poll/145136/Slim-Majority-Americans-Vote-DREAM-Act-Law.aspx

Link: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/10/poll-54-percent-support-dream-act/

[slim 1,530]

I teach in an urban minority school.

........ Neither of these students has a real future ahead of them.

That's a fact regardless of their citizenship status. Why try to lop everyone else into the same category as them?

Maybe make a 4 year degree required. Make it mandatory military service. I don't know.. but many could find something that would make them accept good kids into this country who've lived here most of their lives.

Who's to say they're good kids? Also, who's going to pay for that 4 year mandatory degree?

I have no problem with them joining the military (which is already a LEGAL avenue to citizenship and/or LPR status for all of them) but if we're going to mandate a 4 year degree program or some other such education program I believe there should be a "work to pay for it" program as well. This is America. Nobody gets a free ride. (Except for LEGAL urban minorities.)

[luckytxn 2,265]

Appears that if you count only the Socialist vote then a vast majority do.

Edited December 20, 2010 by luckytxn

[luckytxn 2,265]

That's a fact regardless of their citizenship status. Why try to lop everyone else into the same category as them?

Who's to say they're good kids? Also, who's going to pay for that 4 year mandatory degree?

I have no problem with them joining the military (which is already a LEGAL avenue to citizenship and/or LPR status for all of them) but if we're going to mandate a 4 year degree program or some other such education program I believe there should be a "work to pay for it" program as well. This is America. Nobody gets a free ride. (Except for LEGAL urban minorities.)

I personally don't want people with criminal mentalities to be allowed into our military. These are criminals and have no problem being one so who is to say that they will abide by the Military code of justice.

They want a college education then apply like every other foreigner that would do anything to come here as a student. Allowing these criminals easy access to the universities would mean having to deny many well earned foreigners who can be real positives to ours and/or their own countries when they return. A positive that could mean many positives to our country as they now have a lot to offer both of us. A criminal has no such honor.

Edited December 20, 2010 by luckytxn

[slim 1,530]

Explain to me please how a child who's been brought to another country by their parents is a criminal?

While I'm all for saying they're a criminal if they stay (well) past their 18th birthday, I don't think you can claim someone who's been brought here illegally - through no fault of their own - is a criminal. Shouldn't they have the legal right to earn their way to citizenship?

I'm not saying we should just give it to them. I'm saying we should give them the opportunity to earn it through participating in America. And, I'll have you know, something like 30% of America's army is composed of these so-called "criminals." After three years of service (sometimes even less) they become citizens. Now are you really sitting here trying to tell me we're getting a raw deal on that one when we have their natural born classmates - who ARE criminals - automatically granted citizenship just by birth?

I say trade 'em 2 for 1! I'll gladly take hard-working illegals over the "american" bums we have sitting in our urban areas right now. You wanna deport some criminals? Deport them!

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I personally don't want people with criminal mentalities to be allowed into our military. These are criminals and have no problem being one so who is to say that they will abide by the Military code of justice.

They want a college education then apply like every other foreigner that would do anything to come here as a student. Allowing these criminals easy access to the universities would mean having to deny many well earned foreigners who can be real positives to ours and/or their own countries when they return. A positive that could mean many positives to our country as they now have a lot to offer both of us. A criminal has no such honor.

Whats criminal about these children who were brought into the US. There parents broke the law not them. And as you know, being in the US without status is not a crime.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Unnecessarily provocative comment has been removed. You can state your disagreement with another poster's comments without making personal attacks.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Unnecessarily provocative comment has been removed. You can state your disagreement with another poster's comments without making personal attacks.

But apparently illegal children are criminals and are dangerous. Of course they are at risk of shooting someone. lol

[Kathryn41 3,205]

But apparently illegal children are criminals and are dangerous. Of course they are at risk of shooting someone. lol

Just a reminder that there are better ways for you to point out ironies or discrepancies than the one you used .

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Just a reminder that there are better ways for you to point out ironies or discrepancies than the one you used .

By the way, Kathryn? Is calling minors of illegal immigrants "criminals" which by legal definition is inaccurate then not defamation (the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, or nation a negative image) and therefore against the TOS?

I wondering if a few more posts should be removed from this thread? I'll report them officially if you like.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Sousuke

[slim 1,530]

It's only a violation of TOS if you offend certain people.