N400 from abroad - How many trips back?

[bryan45876 0]

Hello,

My wife is from Thailand and she is a Permanent Resident of the US. I am a US Citizen. Her GC was issued on 05/06/08. I believe this means we can file for citizenship in Feb 2011. We are currently abroad and I want to know how many trips we will have to make back to the US.

Application - Do we need to be in the US to file the application?

Biometrics - I know she needs to come back for this.

Interview - I know we both need to come back for this.

Oath - I'm not sure about this one.

So, it looks like I will have to go back once, and she will have to go back at least twice, maybe 3 times. Am I missing any others?

Also, I am aware of the residence requirements (18 out of the last 36 months, no trips longer than 6 months, etc). I am looking for information on just the amount of plane tickets we need to buy.

Thanks,

Bryan

[dannyh86 3]

In my opinion about the times you have to return, I believe she has to show up for a minimum of 3 times. One for the biometrics, one for the interview, and finally for the oath. You don't have to be present for any of them. Does this answer your question?? I say a minimum of 3 because in case of any problem at any phase she will have to show up again. For example, bad biometrics, she has to re-do them so it means one more trip but if everything goes well only 3 trips. You said you know about the residence requirements so I won't go into that. You don't have to be in the US to file the application you can just find a way to mail it out and have someone wait for the mail you receive through the process. Hope this was helpful

[bryan45876 0]

In my opinion about the times you have to return, I believe she has to show up for a minimum of 3 times. One for the biometrics, one for the interview, and finally for the oath. You don't have to be present for any of them. Does this answer your question?? I say a minimum of 3 because in case of any problem at any phase she will have to show up again. For example, bad biometrics, she has to re-do them so it means one more trip but if everything goes well only 3 trips. You said you know about the residence requirements so I won't go into that. You don't have to be in the US to file the application you can just find a way to mail it out and have someone wait for the mail you receive through the process. Hope this was helpful

Thanks for the reply. A little clarification please . . .

- I thought we both had to go to the interview together? If I do go will I be allowed into the room?

- So if we prepare the application abroad, we mail it to a friend/family member in the US, that friend can then mail to the the USCIS address? The reason I ask is because we applied for a re-entry permit before we left and they were very clear that she MUST be in the US at the time the re-entry permit application was opened by the USCIS. I was wondering if the same requirement applies for N-400 application?

- I was doing some reading and it looks like some places allow you to take the oath ceremony on the same day as the interview. Or at least the two would be within a few days of each other so that it could be just 1 trip?

Thanks,

Bryan

[sk28 1]

Wrong,

You cannot apply for naturalization while you residing outside of USA. You need to be residing in the district or the state for 3 months before you apply. At the interview she will be asked what is her address and if you and she are residing at that address together. If she lies at the interview, she will not be able to natauralize. If the USCIS finds she lied at the interview after her N-400 was approved her Citizenship will be judicial revoked and deported. I would strongly advise to apply for Naturalization when you guys return to the US.

Residency in terms of naturalization is very important as it is intended for people residing in the USA.

Edited December 19, 2010 by sk28

[bryan45876 0]

Wrong,

You cannot apply for naturalization while you residing outside of USA. You need to be residing in the district or the state for 3 months before you apply. At the interview she will be asked what is her address and if you and she are residing at that address together. If she lies at the interview, she will not be able to natauralize. If the USCIS finds she lied at the interview after her N-400 was approved her Citizenship will be judicial revoked and deported. I would strongly advise to apply for Naturalization when you guys return to the US.

Residency in terms of naturalization is very important as it is intended for people residing in the USA.

I guess I should give a little more information. Although we are currently abroad we do consider ourself as residing in the US. We have a house, mortgage, utilities, banks, etc. We have had this address for years. My question is about whether she must physically be present in the US when the USCIS opens the application file? She had to be in the US when they opened the application for re-entry permit, so I'm wondering if it's the same for N400.

[choir001 0]

Bryan,

I am in a similar position in that I am a green card holder currently living in China, married to a US citizen and applying for naturalization under N400, 319b.

There is a lot of confusion about the process, but basically you CAN apply from outside the country if you fulfill certain criteria. A lot depends on how long you have lived outside the US, why you are living abroad, who you are working for, if you are with the military, etc, etc.

I highly suggest you do a search on this forum using '319b' as your search criteria. There is also a great post at the link below.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/136606-n-400-expedited-naturalization-319b-information/

I used this one a lot as I was preparing my application and it has some really useful information. There are a few of us who are currently applying under 319b, as well as some that have already completed the process.

I have an attorney working on my application (but many do not) and she filed the application for me in the US. Basically, I supplied the info, she drew up the application, sent it to me for review and signature and then I sent it back. I did enclose completed fingerprint cards that I did at the Embassy here in China and I will only need to travel to the US for the interview and oath. I have requested an office that will allow same day interview and oath, so that way the process can be done during one trip. It is also useful to request an office that has a passport office nearby, since your wife will need to apply for a US passport in order to leave the country after naturalization. Some passport offices can process application very quickly, which again means you only need to stay for a few days.

I hope this helps, and I suggest you work through the "Do you qualify?' document in the link above to see if you are eligible under 319b.

BTW: You do not need to be present for any of the process. It is your wife that is applying and only she is allowed into the interview room. Of course, you can attend the oath ceremony or be with her in the offices, you will just not be allowed in for the actual interview.

Good luck,

Kim C

I guess I should give a little more information. Although we are currently abroad we do consider ourself as residing in the US. We have a house, mortgage, utilities, banks, etc. We have had this address for years. My question is about whether she must physically be present in the US when the USCIS opens the application file? She had to be in the US when they opened the application for re-entry permit, so I'm wondering if it's the same for N400.

[Rob & Chris 0]

Bryan... to add to what Kim C has said, if you are a military member, your wife may be qualified for overseas naturalization - where your wife won't need to fly back to the US for interview and oath, just have it to the nearest US Embassy, but you would still need to file the application at the Nebraska Office:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=8aa13e4d77d73210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=8aa13e4d77d73210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

Good luck.

Chris

[bryan45876 0]

I am not in the military, I work for an oil company, so I don't think we can apply through 319b. Although it does seem easier. SO, based on what I've learned our current plan is . . .

1) I will mail application to family member in the US before the 90 day window.

2) Family member will send via USPS certified mail to USCIS.

3) Wife will fly back for biometrics.

4) Wife will fly back for interview.

5) Wife will fly back for oath.

She does currently meet the continuous residency and physcial presence requirements. I also think we have enough evidence to prove that we "reside" in the US (house for 3 years, mortgage, bills, banks, driver's license, etc).

I wish they could use the biometrics that were used during the removal of conditions process, which is less than 1 year old. I also wish our location offered same day interview/oath, but it doesn't seem like they do.

Does anyone have any other thoughts or things we should consider?

Thanks,

Bryan

[sk28 1]

Hi

When are you returning back to the US, in less than a 6 months. How long have you been outside of USA?

[bryan45876 0]

Hi

When are you returning back to the US, in less than a 6 months. How long have you been outside of USA?

So far I believe she meets the continuous and physical residence tests. All trips outside the US have been shorter than 6 months, and she has been in the US for more than 18 months in the last 3 years.

[k1visaissue 0]

Kim

I am in a similar situation and am ready to file 319b. Can you please share your lawyer's name as I cant find many who are familiar with 319b process. Thanks in advance!

[warlord 73]

With your situation, since you have your home and stuff still in the US. When she files for the N-400 why not just have her stay put in the US during that time while you continue to work wherever you are stationed. That way you won't have to fork over a lot of money on very little notice to go to get biometrics done (or even re-done) interviews, oaths and whatever else might pop up.

The reason being is the USCIS doesn't really consider peoples lives in terms of schedualing. I have heard numerous stories where people get their interview letter just a day before the actual interview. Planning on returning back and forth could be quite problematic.

So I would suggest she just return to the US and remain there during the process and then after she can rejoin you where ever you will be working...

[bryan45876 0]

I am not in the military, I work for an oil company, so I don't think we can apply through 319b. Although it does seem easier. SO, based on what I've learned our current plan is . . .

1) I will mail application to family member in the US before the 90 day window.

2) Family member will send via USPS certified mail to USCIS.

3) Wife will fly back for biometrics.

4) Wife will fly back for interview.

5) Wife will fly back for oath.

She does currently meet the continuous residency and physcial presence requirements. I also think we have enough evidence to prove that we "reside" in the US (house for 3 years, mortgage, bills, banks, driver's license, etc).

I wish they could use the biometrics that were used during the removal of conditions process, which is less than 1 year old. I also wish our location offered same day interview/oath, but it doesn't seem like they do.

Does anyone have any other thoughts or things we should consider?

Thanks,

Bryan

Thanks to everyone that has given input so far. So, we have all of our paperwork ready and are waiting to file in ~2 weeks. I actually managed to talk to a lawyer today and she told me there is a problem with our current plan listed above.

Even if my wife meets the physical and continuous residence test, and no trips longer than 6 months, she has to "reside" in the district we file 3 months before filing and stay in the US during the application process. She can not file and leave because then she does not "reside" in the US during the filing period. The lawyer even told me that she had an applicant that lived in the US for many years, filed for citizenship, and then took trips out of the US during the application process. That person was denied because they didn't reside in the district during the filing period. If that is true then our plan won't work.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks,

Bryan

[Jack and Barbara 0]

Thanks to everyone that has given input so far. So, we have all of our paperwork ready and are waiting to file in ~2 weeks. I actually managed to talk to a lawyer today and she told me there is a problem with our current plan listed above.

Even if my wife meets the physical and continuous residence test, and no trips longer than 6 months, she has to "reside" in the district we file 3 months before filing and stay in the US during the application process. She can not file and leave because then she does not "reside" in the US during the filing period. The lawyer even told me that she had an applicant that lived in the US for many years, filed for citizenship, and then took trips out of the US during the application process. That person was denied because they didn't reside in the district during the filing period. If that is true then our plan won't work.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks,

Bryan

Hi Bryan,

I'm curious how your applying overseas worked out. I have read posts of people who have applied while in the US, then traveled during different parts of the citizenship application process, and I am unclear whether the 3 months residing in the US district means having residence (e.g., mortgage/rent, local taxes, utilities) or if you have to be physically present for those 3 months. I think the former is true because then people would not be able to travel, but I could be wrong.

Does anyone have experiences with this?

Thanks,

Jack

[Narad Muni 0]

FYI, I got my citizenship a week ago. I applied from abroad with an approved N-470. My interview and oath were on the same day at the San Francisco USCIS office. Mine was an administrative oath in front of a USCIS official in his office.

Bottom line:

1. If you have an approved N-470, and have accumulated the required physical residence, you CAN apply from abroad.

2. When applying, you can submit fingerprints on the FBI FD-258 cards and save a trip to the US for biometrics. I did not do this myself as I was not aware this was possible.

3. The 90-day residence requirement is NOT for the 90 days immediately preceding the filing of the N-400. Basically, you should have resided in that district for that period at SOME time in the past.

4. USCIS takes the view that an approved N-470 preserves BOTH continuous residence in general AND residence in the last district you lived in before leaving the US. What this simply means is that with an approved 470, USCIS will consider you to be residing in that last district for ALL the time you are abroad right up to the interview and oath.