"new" guidelines rules for I-864, not being followed by USCIS?

[meauxna 15]

Meauxna,

Thanks for the info. Basically I sent the W-2, and 1040 for my wife (main sponsor) and my MIL (I-864A)... nothing more...

Highlights From the Final Rule

Reduces required initial documentation: Each sponsor is now required to submit as initial evidence only his or her single most recent tax return rather than tax returns from the three most recent federal tax returns, pay stub(s) covering the most recent six months, and an employer letter.

In my opinion the new guidelines are saying that the only evidence you need to submit is in bold, and that this would be enough for a sponsor, a joint-sponsor, or someone completing an I-864A........

that's my beef.. although I may be completely wrong

OK, what is the problem then? Sorry! I just don't see it.

If you look at the above paragraph the important word is rather, so it's saying to me instead of sending the usual stuff like you have written:

Yes, you and I agree, the new rule is:

-last year's income tax return (either by photocopy or transcript). If by photocopy, include W2s/1099s.

-last 6 months' paystubs if employed

-letter from employer (if employed)

it's saying you can just send the most recent tax return!???

Am I still mis-interpreting that? That's what I understood by that, and so that's what I sent, yet USCIS wants more.......

does it make sense now?

OK, I'm catching up with you now. Yes, we read that two completely different ways!

From the form page http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/i-864.htm :

Special Instructions:

All sponsors must submit the following documentation with their I-864:

Proof of current employment or self employment

A photocopy or an Internal Revenue Service-issued transcript of a photocopy or an Internal Revenue Service-issued transcript of your complete Federal income tax return for your most recent tax year, or an explanation if it is not submitted. Your W-2s and/or 1099 forms may also be required, see the I-864 instructions for details.

You may also, at your option, submit a photocopy or an Internal Revenue Service-issued transcript of your complete Federal income tax returns for your second and third most recent tax years if you believe these additional tax returns may help you establish the ability to maintain your household income at the governing threshold set forth in Form I-864P, Poverty Guidelines.

Note the bolded part: keep in mind that that is your goal.

From the form's instruction pages:

23. Current Individual Annual Income.

You may include evidence supporting your claim about your expected income for the current year if you believe thats ubmitting this evidence will help you establish ability to maintain sufficient income. You are not required to submit this evidence, however, unless specifically instructed to do so by a Government official. For example, you may include a recent letter from your employer, showing your employer's address and telephone number, and indicating your annual salary. You may also provide pay stub(s) showing your income for the previous six months. If your claimed income includes alimony, child support, dividend or interest income,or income from any other source, you may also include evidence of that income.

(bolding is mine)

This supports your reading of the instuction in the first place---a Sponsor *may* include employer information. However, the 2nd bolded piece covers your RFE: if they want it, you must give it.

And, the form page instructions have always been held to supercede ANY printed instructions (there are rules about changing the forms--the webpage is much faster to update) and the Special Instructions do still ask for employment proof.

25. Federal Income Tax Information.

You must provide either an IRS transcript or a photocopyfrom your own records of your Federal individual income tax return for the most recent tax year. If you believe additional returns may help you to establish your ability to maintain sufficient income, you may submit transcripts or photocopies of your Federal individual income tax returns for the three most recent years.

If you provide a photocopy of your tax return(s), you must include a copy of each and every Form W-2 and Form 109 9that relates to your return(s). Do not include copies of these Forms if you provide an IRS transcript of your return(s) rather than a photocopy.

My interpretation of the RFE (remember, this is worth what you've paid for it) is that they need further proof of MIL's income since the household will be relying heavily upon it AND the Special Instructions still call for the proof of employment. Had you taken the conservative approach in order to fully satisfy the reviewing officer and included the past three years' returns for MIL, it might have sealed the deal and no RFE would have been issued. This is something we can not know, and since I have no idea of the numbers involved (and don't want to, thanks) there is no way to really speculate.

Bear in mind that this is temporary anyway, and when you go to your AOS interview, you will have an opportunity to submit a new I-864, without MIL, that includes a household of two (you + wife), wife's income and your own income. I imagine that the two of you would be able to show sufficient income then.

Part of the higher income threshold you're facing now is *because* you are living with the parents. It is appropriate that their income count toward the total if their being counts toward the household size total.

Bottom line is that I think the RFE is generated because of the proof of employment. You are certainly welcome to argue with them, but I think they've asked for it, and you should provide it. If you can hold out the extra week or so, get the transcripts if you like. Or, resend the tax return with it's attachments.

Edited August 27, 2006 by meauxna

[sharky 2]

dr_lha,

I think we may finally be getting to the reason why I got the RFE to begin with, as Meauxna mentioned it in the other thread.

The information supplied on the I-864A for my MIL was a photocopy of the 1040 and W-2, BUT the 1040 was JOINTLY filed with her husband....... now Meauxna mentioned that this may have caused the problem in that it does not show the specific information for her......

which may be why the RFE was sent out asking for extra info for the MIL????

what do you think?

[meauxna 15]

dr_lha,

I think we may finally be getting to the reason why I got the RFE to begin with, as Meauxna mentioned it in the other thread.

The information supplied on the I-864A for my MIL was a photocopy of the 1040 and W-2, BUT the 1040 was JOINTLY filed with her husband....... now Meauxna mentioned that this may have caused the problem in that it does not show the specific information for her......

which may be why the RFE was sent out asking for extra info for the MIL????

what do you think?

Paul,

I am getting more clear that the proof of employment is the issue.

The W-2s show MIL's individual income.

IE: the joint filed return (MIL+FIL) shows their combined income is $100,000. MIL's W-2 shows that her employer paid her $42,000. That defines 'how much' of the 100k is hers.

I would say: don't try to get in their heads. Send what they ask for. Your goal is to succeed, not make them wrong.

[sharky 2]

Meauxna,

Thanks so much for all your help, you've made a very cloudy issue seem a lot more clear. Bottom line, yes i will send them what they need (I never intended not to.... I was just frustrated as to why the RFE was issued)......... I will err on the side of caution and send them the 1040 and W-2 for 2005 (again), employment letter and try and get proof of last months payment (I don't think my MIL has kept her pay stubs!) and also send the IRS transcript for 2005 in with it aswell...........phew!

sorry for hogging the threads so much today everyone, I just wanted to try and get things cleared up. i really hope it helps others that may get RFE's in the future

[Dr_LHA 3]

dr_lha,

I think we may finally be getting to the reason why I got the RFE to begin with, as Meauxna mentioned it in the other thread.

The information supplied on the I-864A for my MIL was a photocopy of the 1040 and W-2, BUT the 1040 was JOINTLY filed with her husband....... now Meauxna mentioned that this may have caused the problem in that it does not show the specific information for her......

which may be why the RFE was sent out asking for extra info for the MIL????

what do you think?

Well if you supplied a jointly filed 1040 without both sets of W-2's (MIL and FIL)) that went with it that would clearly be incomplete. As they file jointly, presumably the easiest thing would be to put them both down as sponsors. Trying to seperate one out might just be overcomplicating things.

[meauxna 15]

Meauxna,

Thanks so much for all your help, you've made a very cloudy issue seem a lot more clear. Bottom line, yes i will send them what they need (I never intended not to.... I was just frustrated as to why the RFE was issued)......... I will err on the side of caution and send them the 1040 and W-2 for 2005 (again), employment letter and try and get proof of last months payment (I don't think my MIL has kept her pay stubs!) and also send the IRS transcript for 2005 in with it aswell...........phew!

sorry for hogging the threads so much today everyone, I just wanted to try and get things cleared up. i really hope it helps others that may get RFE's in the future

lol Paul, I was working it out outloud along with you--I haven't answered any I-864 questions since the change in forms/requirements because I hadn't filed one. But I see that the changes are minimal, really.

On the overkill, I think you could go with either 1040+attachments OR transcript and satisfy them. dr_lha brings up a good point about Dad's W-2s--that would be a 'good' overkill to me.

If MIL's employment letter states that she's worked there since Year Dot and she only has one pay stub, that would also satisfy the RFE.

Best wishes for a speedy conclusion!

dr_lha, by using the I-864A, only one parent at time can do that--i don't think that is the issue as much as the employment proof.

Edited August 27, 2006 by meauxna

[Dr_LHA 3]

dr_lha, by using the I-864A, only one parent at time can do that--i don't think that is the issue as much as the employment proof.

Could file 2 I-864As one for Dad and one for Mum. Overkill, I'll admit.

[rebeccajo 14]

Well I see you all have sorted this whilst I was out spending money I don't have......

Bottom line here is you have to substantiate what you put on either form. I-864 or I-864A. And you have to keep in mind you are proving the income of the person who signed.

I would have filed differently than you did Paul. But I think at the end of the day it probably won't make any difference as long as you can prove your case.

It's been an interesting little lesson here. I plan on staying tuned! More education - I just love VJ!

[gbrairam 0]

Just when I thought my EAD was coming soon... I received a Request for Initial Evidence (I-485) for the I-864 just ten minutes ago!

Immediately I looked up Title 8, Code of Federal REgulations, Section 103.2(B)(10)(ii), which makes me ineligible for interim employment authorization UNTIL NINEY DAYS AFTER THE MISSING INITIAL EVIDENCE IS RECEIVED. The legal reasoning I get, but not the 'until 90 days after' part.

I think that I did follow the new USCIS guidelines about submitting federal income tax returns, etc... for my sponsor and co-sponsor, and I have apparently fallen into the same hole as many of you.

What confuses me now is the part that says I am "ineligible for interim employment authorization until ninety days after the missing initial evidence is received." So this means that my EAD cannot even be processed until 3 months after I submit what they want???

Has this happened to anyone else who was hoping to receive his/her EAD soon? It would be great to hear your experience!

Best wishes to everyone,

Gina

Edited August 28, 2006 by gbrairam

[Dr_LHA 3]

Yes, the rule is you EAD goes on hold for 90 days after they recieve the RFE. However the reality is that many people's EAD gets processed quickly after the RFE, as such that they still get them around 90 days after NOA1. Also some have reported success getting an interim EAD 90 days after NOA1, despite the RFE.

[Anna C. 4]

Hi Gina,

Same here, just got it today through Infopass. That 90 day rule makes me crazy and both hubbie and I could screaaaaaaam. But let's see, still a lot of people get their EAD. What makes me questioning that sentence is that my AP and EAD have been touched several times recently. Why would they do that if they don't intend to issue them soon instead of after getting the "initial evidence"? Doesn't make any sense. Why work on things that are put on hold?!

So what I wanted to ask here is: they said they only want the W2 and whatsoever for the most recent fiscal year. But we still need for the last three years or did I miss something?!?!??!?!

Thanks, Anna.

[KarenCee 3]

We got our RFE in the mail. It was just as I suspected...more proof of income. OK...I've got it, no problem. The only thing that is p*ssing me off is the statement in the letter that says his EAD won't be processed UNTIL 90 days AFTER the missing evidence is received. I don't mind sending them the evidence....again....I think I'll send them duplicate copies of everything, yanno, just in case. But this other, about the EAD...is that just f'd up or what?

90 DAYS??????

[~*Dorothy*~ 2]

Same here...I knew of the RFE since the 8/22 but was not sure what would they ask for...now I just got to clench my fists and get them what they want...the 90 day rule is the true overkill...but well...that is USCIS...got to love them...I am just so glad that so much of the confusion was clarified in this thread...thanks guys...

Dorothy

[sharky 2]

wow this seems to be happening to so many of us!!!

I saw the interim work thing about 90 days aswell, but thought that the processing of the EAD was seperate and it would overide that sentence, I sure hope they don't put the EAD on hold deliberately, just because of this whole I-864 fiasco!

good grief!!!

[bislig2alabama 1]

Received an RFE for taxes and W-2. I sent copies of the tax reports and copies of I-99 not W-2, because I am not employed, I am retired.

In less than two weeks we received the permanent green card from the CSC. no interviews and no conditional card.

Just send what they want and pray!!!