"new" guidelines rules for I-864, not being followed by USCIS?

[M. 0]

I got two RFE emails Thursday, so I'll let you know if my I864 is what's holding this up.

[meauxna 15]

James and miranda,

I sympathize with your situation getting that RFE. As it turns out, from getting advice from other VJ members, I was told that I had filed my I-864 stuff incorrectly. I filed an I-864 for my wife and then an I-864A for my mother in law, as we're living at home at the moment. I have now been informed that I should have filed two seperate I-864's and the I-864a is for permenant residence in the same house, and not TEMPORARY residence (which is our case).............and so

now I have to wait for transcripts etc to come through and send back the whole package again!!

this stuff in enough to drive anyone crazy....

I don't see what the changed rules have to do with this situation.

I disagree on the need for 2 I-864s--this is an I-864A situation and you've completed that form correctly by your report.

Although now you say that your wife/sponsor did not have transcripts included? I'm going to stick to your originial RFE thread here:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry403485

Edited August 27, 2006 by meauxna

[sharky 2]

Hi meauxna,

Thanks for the input! although I'n now even more confused as to what I should do.

My situation is clear, myself and my wife live at home with her parents. She does not earn enough from her earnings alone, my mother in law is going to use her income, that's why we originally filed using an I-864A for her....

however rebaccojo and Kezzie have both suggested that this was an error on my behalf because this situation is TEMPORARY and the I-864A is permanent residence (although to be honest how do they in USCIS know it's not permenant???).........

and so now you are saying that this WAS the correct way of filing??

the thing with the transcripts......... I've seen many VJ members with their AOS checklists, and all they have is 1040s and W-2s, they NEVER mentioned IRS transcripts??!!!

and so I am now stuck in the middle of conflicting views???!!! what should I do?? (I am at present waiting for the IRS transcripts)

[rebeccajo 14]

Paul I'm anxious to see what meauxna says....

It may be more a matter of style, so to speak.

IMHO your affidavits are actually stronger if separate. You are clearly newlyweds starting out. I think having a strong joint sponsor 'looks better' than one affidavit with the A attached.

[sharky 2]

I understand what you are saying rebaccajo, but I am also worried about submitting completely new forms (would this delay things?) and some people are saying maybe it's just better to submit what they are asking for???

can anyone please supply me with the USCIS information line number, I think I need to speak to an immigration officer as to how best approach this!!

I better go and get a coffee and be prepared for a loooong wait on hold

[rebeccajo 14]

I understand what you are saying rebaccajo, but I am also worried about submitting completely new forms (would this delay things?) and some people are saying maybe it's just better to submit what they are asking for???

can anyone please supply me with the USCIS information line number, I think I need to speak to an immigration officer as to how best approach this!!

I better go and get a coffee and be prepared for a loooong wait on hold

I understand and I don't want you to mess up your filing because of advice I gave. The more heads are on this the better!

[meauxna 15]

and so now you are saying that this WAS the correct way of filing??

Yes, I am.

Can you please clarify here and in your other thread (so future readers be sure to find it) WHY you think this RFE shows that CIS is NOT following the new guideline?

I'm still not sure what your beef is.

Other thread: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry403640

[sharky 2]

OK well clearly they are not open at the weekends !!!!

OK I REALLY appreciate everyone's input and advice on this matter. In the end I have decided to just give them what they are asking for, e.g. transcripts, more W-2s, 1040's and letter of employment etc for my MIL.

I don't really want to "rock the boat" or even sink it at this stage!!!

I'll stick with the I-864A method.

Thanks again everyone!

and so now you are saying that this WAS the correct way of filing??

Yes, I am.

Can you please clarify here and in your other thread (so future readers be sure to find it) WHY you think this RFE shows that CIS is NOT following the new guideline?

I'm still not sure what your beef is.

Other thread: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry403640

Meauxna,

see the paragraph:

Official quotes from the new rules for I-864's documents:

FINAL RULE REGARDING AFFIDAVITS OF SUPPORT Washington, D.C. – U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) published today in the Federal Register (71 FR 35732) a final rule regarding Affidavits of Support (Form I-864). Affidavits of Support are submitted by sponsors on behalf of most family-based and some employment-based immigrants. The final rule responds to public comments to an interim rule published by the former Immigration and Naturalization Service on October 20, 1997 in the Federal Register at 62 FR 54346. The final rule makes the Affidavit of Support process less burdensome for sponsors while continuing to ensure that each intending immigrant has a sponsor who has sufficient income and/or assets to support the immigrant(s). The Affidavit of Support also allows the sponsored intending immigrant to establish that he or she is not likely to become a public charge (e.g., receive certain federal or state means-tested benefits). This final rule takes effect July 21, 2006. It will apply to any application for an immigrant visa or adjustment of status that is decided on or after July 21, 2006 even if the case was filed before July 21, 2006.

Highlights From the Final Rule

Reduces required initial documentation: Each sponsor is now required to submit as initial evidence only his or her single most recent tax return rather than tax returns from the three most recent federal tax returns, pay stub(s) covering the most recent six months, and an employer letter.

In my opinion the new guidelines are saying that the only evidence you need to submit is in bold, and that this would be enough for a sponsor, a joint-sponsor, or someone completing an I-864A........

that's my beef.. although I may be completely wrong

Edited August 27, 2006 by Paul C

[meauxna 15]

OK well clearly they are not open at the weekends !!!!

OK I REALLY appreciate everyone's input and advice on this matter. In the end I have decided to just give them what they are asking for, e.g. transcripts, more W-2s, 1040's and letter of employment etc for my MIL.

I don't really want to "rock the boat" or even sink it at this stage!!!

I'll stick with the I-864A method.

Thanks again everyone!

Paul: promise to never call the MisInformation line again!

Please note: there is nothing wrong with r-jo and kezzie's suggestion to do separate I-864s. That IS another way this could be approached, but it's a lot more documentation and not mandatory.

I dont' think any of us here can comment on what "looks better" to the officer---myself, I don't think it matters squat--they don't think in those terms, from the information I have. But that's opinion.

As a matter of facts, if either method is offered, available and valid, it doesn't matter which you use, and "how it looks" becomes moot.

(example: many here would say that if you are unemployed, forget about it. I was unemployed, had been for 2 years and still successfully sponsored my spouse. Obviously there is more to the story, buuuut)

There is no rocking the boat or not---you are not hurting these people's feelings---there is no emotion involved at all. There IS an RFE sitting on YOUR desk, and if you do not respond to it, it is 100% certain that your case will be denied. Respond appropriately, and your case will be moved forward to the next step. From what I can see, your RFE was generated from the Lockbox people? They are not Immigration Officers, they are following a checklist for completion. If your case is a little different, or you sent them something they did not recognize, RFE is the only way they know how to respond.

There's no reason to throw the kitchen sink at them either. Determine what you sent vs what they are asking for (I still don't know what you sent).

1040+W2/1099=Transcript Review the form instructions and it's spelled out there. One OR the other is acceptable.

Employer letter+paystubs=current employment (item 2 & 3 in your RFE seem to ask for the same thing)

Now, allow for the fact that you did send the above and still got the RFE. Resend what you sent. It's not rocket surgery, as I like to say.

Highlights From the Final Rule

Reduces required initial documentation: Each sponsor is now required to submit as initial evidence only his or her single most recent tax return rather than tax returns from the three most recent federal tax returns, pay stub(s) covering the most recent six months, and an employer letter.

In my opinion the new guidelines are saying that the only evidence you need to submit is in bold, and that this would be enough for a sponsor, a joint-sponsor, or someone completing an I-864A........

that's my beef.. although I may be completely wrong

OK, what is the problem then? Sorry! I just don't see it.

Yes, you and I agree, the new rule is:

-last year's income tax return (either by photocopy or transcript). If by photocopy, include W2s/1099s.

-last 6 months' paystubs if employed

-letter from employer (if employed)

The RFE you got asks for:

ALL THE SAME AS ABOVE

If you sent what they asked form, and still got an RFE, they probably lost some of your documentation. Resend it; it happens.

Spell it out for me, please.. I'm not seeing the 'not following the guidelines' part.

edit: if you decide you want transcripts ordered for anyone, call the IRS---the t-scripts arrive very quickly.

Edited August 27, 2006 by meauxna

[rebeccajo 14]

I dont' think any of us here can comment on what "looks better" to the officer---myself, I don't think it matters squat--they don't think in those terms, from the information I have. But that's opinion.

As a matter of facts, if either method is offered, available and valid, it doesn't matter which you use, and "how it looks" becomes moot.

(example: many here would say that if you are unemployed, forget about it. I was unemployed, had been for 2 years and still successfully sponsored my spouse. Obviously there is more to the story, buuuut)

Um. Maybe I 'mis-typed'. My assertion that it 'looks better' maybe should have been 'is more accurate'. In my foggy little brain because the family living arrangement is temporary then the affidavits should each stand alone.

But then I'm SUCH a literalist......

[meauxna 15]

lol, rebecca.

You know the thing about 'temporary' arrangements---they have a way of stringing themselves out.

I just don't know how one would ever define 'temporary' vs 'permanent'. And if you've been living there for, say, two months, and need to file, but don't know when you're moving out, or to where, how could you answer it? It's like the part about proving that your income will be 'ongoing'. Who among us know how long we'll be employed *anywhere*?

[sharky 2]

Meauxna,

Thanks for the info. Basically I sent the W-2, and 1040 for my wife (main sponsor) and my MIL (I-864A)... nothing more...

Highlights From the Final Rule

Reduces required initial documentation: Each sponsor is now required to submit as initial evidence only his or her single most recent tax return rather than tax returns from the three most recent federal tax returns, pay stub(s) covering the most recent six months, and an employer letter.

In my opinion the new guidelines are saying that the only evidence you need to submit is in bold, and that this would be enough for a sponsor, a joint-sponsor, or someone completing an I-864A........

that's my beef.. although I may be completely wrong

OK, what is the problem then? Sorry! I just don't see it.

If you look at the above paragraph the important word is rather, so it's saying to me instead of sending the usual stuff like you have written:

Yes, you and I agree, the new rule is:

-last year's income tax return (either by photocopy or transcript). If by photocopy, include W2s/1099s.

-last 6 months' paystubs if employed

-letter from employer (if employed)

it's saying you can just send the most recent tax return!???

Am I still mis-interpreting that? That's what I understood by that, and so that's what I sent, yet USCIS wants more.......

does it make sense now?

[Dr_LHA 3]

OK, what is the problem then? Sorry! I just don't see it.

Yes, you and I agree, the new rule is:

-last year's income tax return (either by photocopy or transcript). If by photocopy, include W2s/1099s.

-last 6 months' paystubs if employed

-letter from employer (if employed)

Actually you're misreading the rule here. The rule is that you're only required to submit tax transcript or 1040+W2+1099 for last year, instead of "3 years of tax returns, pay stubs, and employment letter". This memo is a little oddly worded so its easy to misunderstand, but the instructions in the new I-864EZ make it clear, you are only required to submit your most recent tax return, everything else is optional.

[sharky 2]

dr_lha,

That's the point I was trying to make to Meauxna.......

the paragraph is saying to only need to submit the most recent years tax returns (doesn't say anything about IRS transcripts) INSTEAD (or as they say it: RATHER THAN) 3 years of tax returns, employment letter and pay stubs........

this is my understanding, is this not correct???

my head hurts......

[Dr_LHA 3]

I think you need to ignore the memo and read the instructions on the form.

You may include evidence supporting your claim about your

expected income for the current year if you believe that

submitting this evidence will help you establish ability to

maintain sufficient income. You are not required to submit

this evidence, however, unless specifically instructed to do

so by a Government official.

In your case, you have been instructed.

Oh BTW, in regards to the transcript, it's optional but also mentioned in the instructions:

19. Federal Income Tax Information.

You must provide either an IRS transcript or a photocopy

from your own records of your Federal individual income tax

return for the most recent tax year. If you believe additional

returns may help you to establish your ability to maintain

sufficient income, you may submit transcripts or photocopies

of your Federal individual income tax returns for the 3 most

recent years.