Sorry, Hamas, I'm Wearing Blue Jeans

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

I long ago switched off siggies, what's so controversial about this one? I could log out...

or you could just always look at their profile and see their signature.

[Peikko 1,575]

or you could just always look at their profile and see their signature.

I never look at profiles so I don't know what information can be found there - anyway, you're little late to the party charlie, someone posted it, or did you miss that?

Edited December 18, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Dan and Judy 614]

Sofi is a she not a he.

Qur'an 5:41"Whomever Allah wants to deceive you cannot help. Allah does not want them to know the truth because he intends to disgrace them and then torture them."

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I think Sofiyya makes a good point in showing christians that their 'holy' text contains the same violent and intolerant screeds that the christians find abhorrent in the quran. I confess I did not immediately recognize the source of her siggy in spite of my many years of church school. Seems we christians downplay this sort of thing when it is from our own bible. One of the reasons I have moved on from religion personally.

Bingo! I applaud you for getting my point so quickly. The reason why I posted it in my siggy is because one of the repeated complaints on this board against Islam is that the Quran is accused of being full of harsh directives that command Muslims to engage in barbaric and punitive acts. Wen I do this, I'M attacked as provocative despite the fact that the entire thread I'm responding to is making the same point I'm making. Downplaying what's in the Bible is only half of it; they actually dismiss the first five books of the Bible as being irrelevant to the gospels altogether, but Muslims aren't allowed to even explain their book at all.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The quote is from the bible, It's hardly fair to blame Sofi for that.

He's not looking for gentle responses.

He's feeling persecuted.

I'm a she, and not feeling at all persecuted because I'm confident in my knowledge of my faith. To the contrary, I'm quite fascinated by the length that some people here will go to excuse their own hypocrisy and bigotry. They refuse to engage in an intelligent exchange while claiming to be seeking just such a thing. They also claim to be experts in a religion and a people they prove every day in writing that they know nothing about. It's very educational for me or I wouldn't bother to participate.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Nothing justifies terrorism! But it is helpful to understand our own history with this as we seek to find ways to defuse the underlying tensions and see progress toward a peaceful and constructive coexistence.

Ready4none has no interest in anything other than confrontation and titillation from these threads. Watch how he consistantly responds to me and others in ways that attempts to divert any discussion back to how horrible Muslims, their faith, their countries and institutions are, despite disclaimers that he doesn't believe that to be so.

Not one person has used the crusades to justify terrorism, that's complete poppycock. What has been said, and remains true, is that christians have used christian scripture to justify abhorrent acts in the past. That doesn't make the actions christian any more than it makes the actions of al quaida and the like muslim.

Some, like Cleo, get it. Some simply choose not to.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Qur'an 5:41"Whomever Allah wants to deceive you cannot help. Allah does not want them to know the truth because he intends to disgrace them and then torture them."

?

[ready4ONE 5,400]

5:51

Sahih International

O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.

[Dan and Judy 614]

I'm a she, and not feeling at all persecuted because I'm confident in my knowledge of my faith. To the contrary, I'm quite fascinated by the length that some people here will go to excuse their own hypocrisy and bigotry. They refuse to engage in an intelligent exchange while claiming to be seeking just such a thing. They also claim to be experts in a religion and a people they prove every day in writing that they know nothing about. It's very educational for me or I wouldn't bother to participate.

Persecution is the systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another group. The most common forms are religious persecution, ethnic persecution, and political persecution, though there is naturally some overlap between these terms.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecuted

being persecuted dosn't have anything to do with confidence or knowledge of faith.

Maybe so, yet your idea of a "wide variety of sources" doesn't seem to curb your tendency to negatively stereotype Muslims every chance you get.

Frankly, you should look up the meaning of the word "tolerance". It aint pretty. Barebones toleration is plentiful here; respect isn't. Ya know, I long got over the idea that there would be much empathy for my "minority" perspective as the only Muslim who regularly posts here, considering the bait material that constantly appears and the fact that some of the non-Muslims who respond have made it abundantly clear that they no interest in learning because they already know more about Muslims and Islam from reading blogs and articlesthan any Muslim does, and it's all bad. Since you're attacking me, I dont expect you to be any different.

As for my siggy, it refers to a recurring theme here. It's interesting that you don't know where it's from.

The reason why I posted it in my siggy is because one of the repeated complaints on this board against Islam is that the Quran is accused of being full of harsh directives that command Muslims to engage in barbaric and punitive acts. Wen I do this, I'M attacked as provocative despite the fact that the entire thread I'm responding to is making the same point I'm making. Downplaying what's in the Bible is only half of it; they actually dismiss the first five books of the Bible as being irrelevant to the gospels altogether, but Muslims aren't allowed to even explain their book at all.

Ready4none has no interest in anything other than confrontation and titillation from these threads. Watch how he consistantly responds to me and others in ways that attempts to divert any discussion back to how horrible Muslims, their faith, their countries and institutions are, despite disclaimers that he doesn't believe that to be so

Dr. Jasser should be notified that Islam isn't anymore backward than its sister faiths, Judaism or Christianity. Some Muslims could use modernizing, for sure, but the faith is not at fault for what some Muslims do in its name.

A bit overwrought, but, in step with the theme of these kinds of threads. Im not so worried.

I'm not worried. America isn't the world and my view is far wider than the self-absorbed types whose beliefs are manipulated daily by trendy news articles and opinion blogs. They seem to have little concept of Muslims, Islam or the depth of who, what or even where we are. They're like a toothless dog barking at shadows.

Years ago, Ted Koppel said about the media, "We may not tell you what to think, but we tell you what to think about." I never forgot that, and, now, I would say that media does tell those incapable of critical thinking what to think. They are not the best among us. They don't scare me much. I've seen a lot worse.

They refuse to engage in an intelligent exchange while claiming to be seeking just such a thing.

　You've made the case. Why shy away from the word persecuted?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Not one person has used the crusades to justify terrorism, that's complete poppycock. What has been said, and remains true, is that christians have used christian scripture to justify abhorrent acts in the past. That doesn't make the actions christian any more than it makes the actions of al quaida and the like muslim.

Help me here. How long ago where the Crusades ?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Ready4none has no interest in anything other than confrontation and titillation from these threads. Watch how he consistantly responds to me and others in ways that attempts to divert any discussion back to how horrible Muslims, their faith, their countries and institutions are, despite disclaimers that he doesn't believe that to be so.

Some, like Cleo, get it. Some simply choose not to.

You dodge answers with questions. Iv'e seen you do it many times on many threads.

[luckytxn 2,264]

I think Sofiyya makes a good point in showing christians that their 'holy' text contains the same violent and intolerant screeds that the christians find abhorrent in the quran. I confess I did not immediately recognize the source of her siggy in spite of my many years of church school. Seems we christians downplay this sort of thing when it is from our own bible. One of the reasons I have moved on from religion personally.

No. What she tries to make points are not the same. Yes the world back then was barbaric and sordid even but we have changed in society and have stopped the crazy ####### but Muslims still will not move forward. That is OK for them if they want but don't try to say they are misunderstood. We understand very well they are still barbaric and sordid. They want to live in the past then so be it but I like that we have evolved in our religion and become a true religion of peace. Our religion was founded by a kind soul even when he was treated with the ultimate barbarity he asked for forgiveness for those who did him horror. Muslim religion was founded by a barbarian who was a pedophile and disgusting man. That could still be OK but they never evolved in their religion and still treat their woman as slaves and in fact practice slavery in many of their countries. They want world domination and the U.S. to have the Muslim flag flying over the Capital. They are barbaric still but we are expected to understand and be amiable to them. Well I will not but I will extend a hand and even pray for any moderates that want to do the same for me. If whole countries allow the extreme fringe that wants to kill and destroy then don't be surprised if we slap them down. Want us to get along? Then try to get along with us but for sure we will not convert to Islam to do so. Either accept me as a Christian or not. I could care less because I am a Christian and will die one. The only two choices we have is to kill each other as a Muslim and a Christian or we can live among ourselves as a Muslim and a Christian and be civil.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Help me here. How long ago where the Crusades ?

Exactly my point. They were long ago and failed anyway. Of course if ones live in the past as some Muslims do they are relevant still.

[james&olya 1,121]

they are still barbaric and sordid. Muslim religion was founded by a barbarian who was a pedophile and disgusting man. They are barbaric still

This sort of sweeping generalization that indicts entire countries and cultures for the actions of a few is wrong. Yes, much of Christiaity has matured but how would you like to be labeled based on the actions of a few crazies that purport to be christians? This is called prejudice and it isn't pretty! We do have a problem in learning how to deal with this minority of crazies effectively but this sort of rant can only exacerbate the problem. We must recognize the existence of the vast number of moderate and tolerant muslims if we ever expect to see a lasting peaceful coexistence.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Persecution is the systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another group. The most common forms are religious persecution, ethnic persecution, and political persecution, though there is naturally some overlap between these terms.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecuted

being persecuted dosn't have anything to do with confidence or knowledge of faith.

Maybe so, yet your idea of a "wide variety of sources" doesn't seem to curb your tendency to negatively stereotype Muslims every chance you get.

Frankly, you should look up the meaning of the word "tolerance". It aint pretty. Barebones toleration is plentiful here; respect isn't. Ya know, I long got over the idea that there would be much empathy for my "minority" perspective as the only Muslim who regularly posts here, considering the bait material that constantly appears and the fact that some of the non-Muslims who respond have made it abundantly clear that they no interest in learning because they already know more about Muslims and Islam from reading blogs and articlesthan any Muslim does, and it's all bad. Since you're attacking me, I dont expect you to be any different.

As for my siggy, it refers to a recurring theme here. It's interesting that you don't know where it's from.

The reason why I posted it in my siggy is because one of the repeated complaints on this board against Islam is that the Quran is accused of being full of harsh directives that command Muslims to engage in barbaric and punitive acts. Wen I do this, I'M attacked as provocative despite the fact that the entire thread I'm responding to is making the same point I'm making. Downplaying what's in the Bible is only half of it; they actually dismiss the first five books of the Bible as being irrelevant to the gospels altogether, but Muslims aren't allowed to even explain their book at all.

Ready4none has no interest in anything other than confrontation and titillation from these threads. Watch how he consistantly responds to me and others in ways that attempts to divert any discussion back to how horrible Muslims, their faith, their countries and institutions are, despite disclaimers that he doesn't believe that to be so

Dr. Jasser should be notified that Islam isn't anymore backward than its sister faiths, Judaism or Christianity. Some Muslims could use modernizing, for sure, but the faith is not at fault for what some Muslims do in its name.

A bit overwrought, but, in step with the theme of these kinds of threads. Im not so worried.

I'm not worried. America isn't the world and my view is far wider than the self-absorbed types whose beliefs are manipulated daily by trendy news articles and opinion blogs. They seem to have little concept of Muslims, Islam or the depth of who, what or even where we are. They're like a toothless dog barking at shadows.

Years ago, Ted Koppel said about the media, "We may not tell you what to think, but we tell you what to think about." I never forgot that, and, now, I would say that media does tell those incapable of critical thinking what to think. They are not the best among us. They don't scare me much. I've seen a lot worse.

They refuse to engage in an intelligent exchange while claiming to be seeking just such a thing.

　You've made the case. Why shy away from the word persecuted?

Beause, I don't respond out of a sense of persecution. I respond because I know I can reach people who don't post but want to learn. The bigots who post garbage are merely vehicles allowing me to reach others who may think the same thoughts they do, but don't post them. On any board. more people read than post. They are an untapped audience.