Superstition and religion

[Peikko 1,575]

Sinterklaas? Sounds like some pervert who lives in the neighborhood and flashes all the ladies as they drive by.

The guy was Dutch.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

How does something come from nothing.

Well, you'd be much more likely to find an answer to that question either on Wall Street (they're true masters at this) or at your local Tea Party office (they galvanize around this particular concept) than you'll ever be at the church down the street.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Mr. Big Dog

[scandal 951]

If I didn't know so many highly intelligent people that were also religious, I, too, would think that you had to be a little bit stupid to be a "believer". That said, I still don't really understand how they do it, believe, that is.

Jenn, I grew up in the same household with a sister and brother, both younger than I. It was a secular Jewish home, well educated parents, and we kids are all in turn well educated. I am a confirmed atheist- culturally Jewish but theologically content with the Universe sans Deity. My brother is likewise, as far as I know. My sister probed her soul and found God as a teenager, married an Orthodox Jewish guy, and is busy raising an Orthodox Jewish family. She firmly believes in the tenets of the faith and has never looked back. She got the Jewish cultural background, and the observances - Shabbat, Kashrut, holidays - from our home, as did I. But she certainly didn't get the faith there. She also happens to have a degree in Electrical Engineering and works as a patent specialist. She's most certainly no dummy, and she and her husband (the Orthodox Jewish physicist) are both well read. To be honest I don't entirely understand either how they can simultaneously be science-trained and accept the Torah as scripture. But they do, and I am happy for them. It gives them their sense of purpose in life and in the values they give their children, and feels right for them. Who am I to tell them otherwise? They, likewise, are happy for me to have found my path in life. People can believe in different things and not feel compelled to change another's mind.

[chri'stina 190]

Some people make the argument that the early christian church in the years following the crucifixion functioned as a commune! Imagine, Christian communists!

As I think about things to write, I think "this sounds crazy" but maybe I should type it anyway? lol

My parents actually lived in a communal/cooperate house for a little while after they were married, before I was born. It was with fellow church goers. They had a huge house and everyone split the expenses. It was financially good for most involved since it was Queens NYC and you got to live in a nice, big house.

They didn't like it after awhile because people just get on each others' nerves. Plus, the pastor who lived in it with his family, they always got the best food and biggest rooms. Everyone else would vent about it to each other. After that experience, I don't think they'd ever want to live that way again. It was the 70's, what can I say. And we know many people who did similar! Even how my dad started his trade...interesting stories involving burned out ex-hippies(my dad a little too young to be a 60's hippie), church, and a lifelong money making skill that he still does.

Edited December 16, 2010 by chri'stina

[mawilson 2,133]

How does something come from nothing explain that to me and you might have grounds for telling people there isnt a God.

If science cannot explain something, does it mean that we should make up silly stories to explain it?

[james&olya 1,121]

Communism as a form of religion is not a new idea. It's not a religion in the traditional

monotheist sense, but there are many similarities.

If we accept this proposition as having validity then maybe we should also examine the growing 'tea-party' movement in this country as a form of religion as well. Certainly they are willing to accept many of their beliefs based on faith (believing something in spite of an absence of objective evidence to support the idea)!

[mawilson 2,133]

Banning the Bible - or religious scripture generally - might have other motivations is all I'm saying.

This further confirms the link between communism and religion. Religion is banned in communist countries

because it offers an alternative to communism - the official "state religion".

[Peikko 1,575]

Jenn, I grew up in the same household with a sister and brother, both younger than I. It was a secular Jewish home, well educated parents, and we kids are all in turn well educated. I am a confirmed atheist- culturally Jewish but theologically content with the Universe sans Deity. My brother is likewise, as far as I know. My sister probed her soul and found God as a teenager, married an Orthodox Jewish guy, and is busy raising an Orthodox Jewish family. She firmly believes in the tenets of the faith and has never looked back. She got the Jewish cultural background, and the observances - Shabbat, Kashrut, holidays - from our home, as did I. But she certainly didn't get the faith there. She also happens to have a degree in Electrical Engineering and works as a patent specialist. She's most certainly no dummy, and she and her husband (the Orthodox Jewish physicist) are both well read. To be honest I don't entirely understand either how they can simultaneously be science-trained and accept the Torah as scripture. But they do, and I am happy for them. It gives them their sense of purpose in life and in the values they give their children, and feels right for them. Who am I to tell them otherwise? They, likewise, are happy for me to have found my path in life. People can believe in different things and not feel compelled to change another's mind.

I think in the end, for those who are thoughtful about the way one should live one's life, there are more similarities between atheists and theists than differences. Believing in a deity or not should not affect very much how we conduct ourselves here on earth - being fair and compassionate is after all what counts and I think that plays out for the most part. Those who use belief or non belief to dupe and cheat their fellow man are the true villains of the piece

[mawilson 2,133]

Sinterklaas? Sounds like some pervert who lives in the neighborhood and flashes all the ladies as they drive by.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Peikko 1,575]

Geez, just as I was learning to enjoy bananas

[Ban Hammer 13,347]

[chri'stina 190]

ok I will take that...

I don't believe that a non-belief in god is a religious belief any more than a non-belief that hippos can fly is religious belief

I don't see any evidence for it

Trouble with these egg head philosophers from Germany is that they are so boring that everyone forgets what they are on about and so accept it rather than argue

When I was going out with that German psychiatrist in NiederSachsen, she bought me Lichtenberger's scrap book and it did my skull. What a curtain twitcher he was - looking at people walking down the road and hating em.

Anyway I believe in a clean slate and my ideas are as good as theirs

The difference between my beliefs and religious beliefs is that I came up with em on my own and in a vacuum and against all I was being taught. I didn't accept someone's teachings to become a non believer. I thought about it by myself in a sea of believers and I had never read a non believers book or been lectured or persuaded by a non believer. The trouble with believers is that they didn't come up with it themselves - it was handed to them as a package by a person - and they swallowed it. Religious people get born and then get indoctrinated by PEOPLE and their books - they didn't come to it themselves

That is the difference and why my non belief is not religious but a balance of probabilities that is so skewed one way that I don't believe the alternative I am being offered

To put it another way, the default for humanity is non-belief even though the majority end up believing in everything from eating their ancestors brains to get cleverer - right through the spectrum to the more outlandish ideas like Christianity

Being in the majority is no proof of being right - park up outside Walmart for an hour and take a good look at the majority

I just want to address the bolded. I was thinking about that kind of thing, and you are actually wrong in assuming every Christian is raised by Christians and taught about it when young.

In my generation, I do know people like me who were raised by Christian parents and continue to be devout as adults. However in my parents' generation, they know a lot of people like themselves, who grew up in either families indifferent to religion, or who didn't even talk about it at all. My mom decided to be an atheist as a young teenager. She didn't think there could be a God who would let bad things happen, plus her childhood wasn't the best so she felt God never helped her. But then when she was 18, she felt like she was wrong. So instead of growing up religious and rejecting it when older, it was the opposite.

Similar for my father who grew up in a non-religious household. Sure Christianity was their culture in a sense, but no one practiced anything or read the bible or talked about it. My dad ran away from home when he was 15 from Philly PA to Albuquerque NM and stayed there for 2-3 years. It was actually while away on his own that he became a devout Christian at age 16. He used to make fun of the Christian kids in his high school when they would sit around talking about Jesus. He thought they were kooky. He would play a harmonica near them to try to annoy them while they were talking. What a brat right? lol But they would always be nice to him. Anyway, later on he just felt differently and became a devout Christian when he was that young. He then influenced his sister and then parents within a couple years. The children changed the parents in this case. You might take those stories and make fun of them, but they are honest stories. My dad became a pastor later on in life. I respect him very much. You might say they are fully brainwashed now, but you know what? They feel like their lives since changing as teens have been so much better than the life before it.

[Captain Oates 911]

How did humans come from apes?

You saw W on telly for 8 years and have to ask ?

[Captain Oates 911]

pacific time brekky time..

Thursday thoughts.

If I think that brilliantly clever people can be religious because the gullibility factor is independent of intelligence, then I can't say that the religious are always stupid or thick or have a logic deficit.

However, some of the 'nicest' people I have met were not the brightest knives in the drawer and were smiling happy people who could never sort out a joke from a serious statement - you know the kind where everything has to be explained.

I went out with a very pretty smiling catholic girl and I was rowing a dinghy along the Bude canal in North Cornwall. She was there in the boat with a parasol like Mary Poppins. A duck came swimming along with 12 ducklings. She said " So, do ducks come from er... eggs ?"

I stopped rowing and I knew it was the end of the relationship just as the mental image of ducks with chubbies flashed into my mind

So just because people are sweet and innocent doesn't mean they are possible to be around for many hours a day. Many sweet religious people fall into that category. It does excuse their religiosity as does the gullibility problem of the geniuses

The only truly evil people in this scam are the pastors etc who take the money from the gullible and the sweet ones, and spend all their time fornicating and buying more and more stuff

The church is the only social outlet for many oldies in the US and I am convinced most let the hell fire preachers go over their heads while they play bingo with their friends..

All over the world the trend for religiosity is DOWN so at least the future is shaping up for the reasoned crowd but the US South will be the last area in the world to crumble. (see the light)

One of the reasons is threads like this and the INTERNET in general. Believers can see people like me getting away with it and no lighting bolts arriving and they start to think why not ? They are also able to see many seemingly devout people and what they are really like and some pretty moral 'nons' working through amnesty international etc - so the font of all good is not the church any more

Edited December 16, 2010 by Alan the Red