Are monthly pay stubs that has no deductions such as federal income tax and social security tax ,are acceptable?

[piglett 16]

well Ianandjan the 2 of you can always just get married & go the CR1 route

best of luck

piglett

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Jim thank you so much,yes i talked to my fiance he said he will really have 1099 misctax form by january 31 2011 and will pass it on march 2011. But my interview will be before january 31. IF you were in my place what will you do?My fiance said he will go to tax office and bring his 4 recent check stubs with him from his recent job and ask for estimated tax deductions of each of that check stubs and i will let consul officer see it to determine if he is above poverty guideline... will that be the correct thing to do in our case? Are my pay stubs acceptable even it has no deductions yet?

The only income tax return he have is on year 2009 and it was below poverty guideline his short of about 2900 we suffice it with his credit union savings amounting to $15000.

What i am worried is his current sustained income which i know will play a big part in determining whether i will be a public charge or not..as his recent pay stubs shows no deductions...any advice on what to do? thank you so much

Yeah, that makes more sense. Most people who end up owing money to the IRS wait until March or April to file their returns. There's no penalty for filing close to the deadline, and it lets you hold on to your money a little longer - maybe earn a little interest in the meantime.

This still doesn't answer the question, though. Does his employer deduct taxes from his earnings or not? If his employer deducts taxes, then he's actually earning more than his checks indicate, and his 1099's will show an amount which is higher than the sum total of the amount of his checks in box 7, and the amount of taxes withheld in boxes 4 and 16. If his employer does NOT deduct taxes then his gross earnings are exactly what his checks indicate, and that's exactly what his 1099 is going to show.

As I said before, it's unusual for an employer to withhold taxes from the pay of a contractor, and there are only a handful of circumstances when an employer is required to do this, such as if the contractor doesn't furnish a taxpayer ID number or SSN to the employer. Regardless, your fiance should still be able to get a statement from his employer indicating exactly how much he's been paid IN TOTAL, and a breakdown of how much was issued in checks and how much was withheld for tax purposes.

What you indicated your fiance was going to do at the IRS office was a "reverse withholding" calculation, which means to look at the net pay and try to deduce approximately how much was withheld in order to determine the original gross pay. The IRS can't make this calculation. They don't know how many dependents he might have claimed when he filled out a W4 for his employer, which determines how much they withhold from his checks. They also don't know how much (if any) might have been withheld for state and local taxes, state mandated disability insurance, Social Security taxes, and the list goes on. Only his employer knows how much was actually withheld.

The only thing I can advise is to try to get a complete accounting of his total pay, including withheld taxes, from his employer. Bring this to the interview, along with copies of his check stubs, an IRS transcript of his 2009 tax return, statements for his credit union account for the past six months or so, and a letter from his employer confirming that he's still working there. Add a completed I-134 signed by your fiance. Keep your fingers crossed, and hope for the best. Hopefully, the CO will look at his tax return transcript, offset it according to the savings in the credit union, look to see that he's still working and earning enough to apparently qualify, and approve it.

[ianandjan 0]

Yeah, that makes more sense. Most people who end up owing money to the IRS wait until March or April to file their returns. There's no penalty for filing close to the deadline, and it lets you hold on to your money a little longer - maybe earn a little interest in the meantime.

This still doesn't answer the question, though. Does his employer deduct taxes from his earnings or not? If his employer deducts taxes, then he's actually earning more than his checks indicate, and his 1099's will show an amount which is higher than the sum total of the amount of his checks in box 7, and the amount of taxes withheld in boxes 4 and 16. If his employer does NOT deduct taxes then his gross earnings are exactly what his checks indicate, and that's exactly what his 1099 is going to show.

As I said before, it's unusual for an employer to withhold taxes from the pay of a contractor, and there are only a handful of circumstances when an employer is required to do this, such as if the contractor doesn't furnish a taxpayer ID number or SSN to the employer. Regardless, your fiance should still be able to get a statement from his employer indicating exactly how much he's been paid IN TOTAL, and a breakdown of how much was issued in checks and how much was withheld for tax purposes.

What you indicated your fiance was going to do at the IRS office was a "reverse withholding" calculation, which means to look at the net pay and try to deduce approximately how much was withheld in order to determine the original gross pay. The IRS can't make this calculation. They don't know how many dependents he might have claimed when he filled out a W4 for his employer, which determines how much they withhold from his checks. They also don't know how much (if any) might have been withheld for state and local taxes, state mandated disability insurance, Social Security taxes, and the list goes on. Only his employer knows how much was actually withheld.

The only thing I can advise is to try to get a complete accounting of his total pay, including withheld taxes, from his employer. Bring this to the interview, along with copies of his check stubs, an IRS transcript of his 2009 tax return, statements for his credit union account for the past six months or so, and a letter from his employer confirming that he's still working there. Add a completed I-134 signed by your fiance. Keep your fingers crossed, and hope for the best. Hopefully, the CO will look at his tax return transcript, offset it according to the savings in the credit union, look to see that he's still working and earning enough to apparently qualify, and approve it.

Jim thank you so much i can never repay you for this you help me and my fiance a lot... Jim the employer does not deduct from his earnings. Yes i talked to my fiance about this and his employer will give letter confirming that hes still working there he will even have pay check stubs for january 2011 in my interview..

As for my fiance total pay in this recent job ,he was earning $9200 in 4 months (september-december) no withholding taxes from employer,he also dont have state tax... when he called the IRS office the man there ask him if he was self employed and about number of dependents which he has none... the man calculate it and said the deductions for all his 4 checks was $1415.. when i deduct $1415 to $9200 he ends up having income $$7785 for 4 months...the man in IRS said that he will just bring his 4 pay stubs in the Tax office and he will be charge $50 ..Now i know its his employer who will know the tax withheld and no need to go IRS office and let them determine how much deductions in his recent job income. thank you so much Jim.

But supposedly he made $7785 in 4 months for his recent job ,will this be above poverty guideline for household of 2?Thank you so much Jim. This is really a great help from you.

[ianandjan 0]

well Ianandjan the 2 of you can always just get married & go the CR1 route

best of luck

piglett

piglett thank you so much but GOD willing we will pass this fiance visa since we already apply for it. We already spent a lot for this..the atty my fiance hired was very very useless you guys here in vj especially you and jim is very much helpful compared to that atty.but we forgave her..

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Jim thank you so much i can never repay you for this you help me and my fiance a lot... Jim the employer does not deduct from his earnings. Yes i talked to my fiance about this and his employer will give letter confirming that hes still working there he will even have pay check stubs for january 2011 in my interview..

As for my fiance total pay in this recent job ,he was earning $9200 in 4 months (september-december) no withholding taxes from employer,he also dont have state tax... when he called the IRS office the man there ask him if he was self employed and about number of dependents which he has none... the man calculate it and said the deductions for all his 4 checks was $1415.. when i deduct $1415 to $9200 he ends up having income $$7785 for 4 months...the man in IRS said that he will just bring his 4 pay stubs in the Tax office and he will be charge $50 ..Now i know its his employer who will know the tax withheld and no need to go IRS office and let them determine how much deductions in his recent job income. thank you so much Jim.

But supposedly he made $7785 in 4 months for his recent job ,will this be above poverty guideline for household of 2?Thank you so much Jim. This is really a great help from you.

The information from the IRS office could have been obtained by using the online withholding calculator on the IRS website. It's only valid if you know your gross earnings. If I understand you correctly, now you're saying his employer does NOT withhold taxes from his pay, so the total amount of his checks will be equal to what will be written on his 1099. This would be his gross earnings.

Now, that we've gotten that out of the way, the consulate does not factor in how much is withheld from his pay for taxes, nor how much he will have to PAY when he files his tax returns. They care how much is available to him to pay his living expenses, and they consider his taxes to be part of those living expenses. For someone who is a regular employee, this would be reflected by their GROSS wages on their pay statement. However, someone who is self-employed has expenses that someone who is a regular employee does not have. This is the cost of earning money, and is something which the IRS allows you to deduct from your gross earnings before beginning the calculations for your personal income taxes. They have a special worksheet for self-employed and small business owners to calculate those deductions called "Schedule C". What is left after making those deductions eventually ends up on line 22 of 1040 tax return form. For a regular employee, the amount on line 22 is usually the same as the amount shown for gross wages on their W2 form. For a self-employed worker, the amount on line 22 is usually less - often FAR less - then the amount shown for gross earnings on their 1099 forms.

Let me give you an example. Two people who work in an office, one is a regular employee and one is self-employed. Both of them need a room with office furniture. A regular employee would have this provided by his employer. A self-employed person would need to provide this for himself, and would be able to deduct the cost. Both would need a computer with internet access. A regular employee would have this provided by his employer. A self-employed person would need to provide this for himself, and would be able to deduct the cost. Both would need regular supplies; paper, pens, staples, whatever. A regular employee would have this provided by his employer. A self-employed person would need to provide this for himself, and would be able to deduct the cost. Do you see what I'm getting at? The amount a self-employed worker is allowed to deduct for these things is often much more than they actually pay. This is Congress' way of helping self-employed and small business owners earn a living.

What I'm saying to you is that whatever he will pay in taxes is irrelevant. The withholding issue was important because if his employer had been withholding taxes from his pay, and that withholding was not reflected on his check stubs, then it would make his gross earnings look to be a lot lower than they actually were. Since his employer is apparently NOT withholding taxes, then his check stubs accurately reflect his gross earnings. Because he is self-employed, the consulate is allowed to presume that some of those gross earnings are going to be deducted as business expenses on a Schedule C. In order to determine approximately how much, they will probably refer to last year's tax forms.

$9200 in four months comes out to $27,600 per year. If he was a regular employee then this would be more than enough. Because he's self-employed, it might not be.

You said you have last year's IRS tax forms, and that his income is $2900 short. Which tax form do you have, and what are you basing your statement on that it's short by $2900? Is it line 22 of the 1040 form?

[ianandjan 0]

The information from the IRS office could have been obtained by using the online withholding calculator on the IRS website. It's only valid if you know your gross earnings. If I understand you correctly, now you're saying his employer does NOT withhold taxes from his pay, so the total amount of his checks will be equal to what will be written on his 1099. This would be his gross earnings.

Now, that we've gotten that out of the way, the consulate does not factor in how much is withheld from his pay for taxes, nor how much he will have to PAY when he files his tax returns. They care how much is available to him to pay his living expenses, and they consider his taxes to be part of those living expenses. For someone who is a regular employee, this would be reflected by their GROSS wages on their pay statement. However, someone who is self-employed has expenses that someone who is a regular employee does not have. This is the cost of earning money, and is something which the IRS allows you to deduct from your gross earnings before beginning the calculations for your personal income taxes. They have a special worksheet for self-employed and small business owners to calculate those deductions called "Schedule C". What is left after making those deductions eventually ends up on line 22 of 1040 tax return form. For a regular employee, the amount on line 22 is usually the same as the amount shown for gross wages on their W2 form. For a self-employed worker, the amount on line 22 is usually less - often FAR less - then the amount shown for gross earnings on their 1099 forms.

Let me give you an example. Two people who work in an office, one is a regular employee and one is self-employed. Both of them need a room with office furniture. A regular employee would have this provided by his employer. A self-employed person would need to provide this for himself, and would be able to deduct the cost. Both would need a computer with internet access. A regular employee would have this provided by his employer. A self-employed person would need to provide this for himself, and would be able to deduct the cost. Both would need regular supplies; paper, pens, staples, whatever. A regular employee would have this provided by his employer. A self-employed person would need to provide this for himself, and would be able to deduct the cost. Do you see what I'm getting at? The amount a self-employed worker is allowed to deduct for these things is often much more than they actually pay. This is Congress' way of helping self-employed and small business owners earn a living.

What I'm saying to you is that whatever he will pay in taxes is irrelevant. The withholding issue was important because if his employer had been withholding taxes from his pay, and that withholding was not reflected on his check stubs, then it would make his gross earnings look to be a lot lower than they actually were. Since his employer is apparently NOT withholding taxes, then his check stubs accurately reflect his gross earnings. Because he is self-employed, the consulate is allowed to presume that some of those gross earnings are going to be deducted as business expenses on a Schedule C. In order to determine approximately how much, they will probably refer to last year's tax forms.

$9200 in four months comes out to $27,600 per year. If he was a regular employee then this would be more than enough. Because he's self-employed, it might not be.

You said you have last year's IRS tax forms, and that his income is $2900 short. Which tax form do you have, and what are you basing your statement on that it's short by $2900? Is it line 22 of the 1040 form?

Jim than you so much i really have knowledge now regarding this income matter that bothers me before ,,, . i have here a copy of his last years IRS tax form.. last year he works as regular employee in some months but in november-december 2009 he was self employed contractor.. i have his 1040 form of 2009..i base his shortfall poverty guideline in form1040 line 34 adjusted gross income and not in line 22 which is total income..

As self employed now who will determine in how much will be his business expenses on a schedule C? will the last year (2009) business expenses deductions on a schedule C will be the same business expenses deductions for this year regardless if he earns more in his contractor work for this year compared to last year?

I saw his last year(2009) 1099 form and pay checks and both coincide to $5333.32..In his 1040 tax form in line 12 i saw $3,108

as business income ...will this mean that his $5333.32 gross income as self employed was deducted by $2225.32 thats why he has only $3108 as business income? so the business expenses deductions was $2225.32, am i right? Will this $2225.32 deductions will be the same amount that will be deducted to this year $9200 self employed income for 4 months?

[piglett 16]

wow

my understanding is this it all comes down to the "ajusted gross income" not gross earnings

they are two different things.

one problem is that we are trying to work off of 2ND or 3RD hand infomation.

Jim it sounds like if anyone can figure this mess out it's you

piglett

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Jim than you so much i really have knowledge now regarding this income matter that bothers me before ,,, . i have here a copy of his last years IRS tax form.. last year he works as regular employee in some months but in november-december 2009 he was self employed contractor.. i have his 1040 form of 2009..i base his shortfall poverty guideline in form1040 line 34 adjusted gross income and not in line 22 which is total income..

As self employed now who will determine in how much will be his business expenses on a schedule C? will the last year (2009) business expenses deductions on a schedule C will be the same business expenses deductions for this year regardless if he earns more in his contractor work for this year compared to last year?

I saw his last year(2009) 1099 form and pay checks and both coincide to $5333.32..In his 1040 tax form in line 12 i saw $3,108

as business income ...will this mean that his $5333.32 gross income as self employed was deducted by $2225.32 thats why he has only $3108 as business income? so the business expenses deductions was $2225.32, am i right? Will this $2225.32 deductions will be the same amount that will be deducted to this year $9200 self employed income for 4 months?

Adjusted gross income is not line 34 on any tax form. It's line 37 on a 1040, line 21 on a 1040A, and line 4 on a 1040EZ.

Anyway, let's presume that you're talking about his adjusted gross income on line 37 of a 1040. The adjusted gross income is the total income MINUS certain personal expenses that can be deducted from your income before determining how much tax you will owe. Let's presume, for the sake of argument, that he doesn't list any of these personal expenses, and his adjusted gross income is the same as his total income.

The consulate isn't going to go overboard with these calculations. The easiest assumption for them to make is that his comparable business deductions will be the same percentage of his gross earnings. For example, he had $5333.32 in gross earnings and $2225.32 in business deductions, right? That means he deducted about 42% of his gross earnings as business deductions.

Ok, his annualized gross earnings are now about $27,600. By "annualized earnings" I'm referring to how much he would be making if he continued earning the same amount for a full year. If they apply the same percentage for his business deductions as he took in the previous year, then he would potentially be deducting about $11,592 for business deductions, which leaves a total income of $16,008. He's a little over $2000 short to qualify as a sole sponsor.

I'm not saying that the consulate WILL make this assumption. They can juggle the numbers any way they see fit. I'm just saying that they don't have evidence that he is clearly eligible, which means one or more tax returns showing a sufficient total income, so they will have to extrapolate from the information they have.

Edited December 4, 2010 by JimVaPhuong

[ianandjan 0]

Adjusted gross income is not line 34 on any tax form. It's line 37 on a 1040, line 21 on a 1040A, and line 4 on a 1040EZ.

Anyway, let's presume that you're talking about his adjusted gross income on line 37 of a 1040. The adjusted gross income is the total income MINUS certain personal expenses that can be deducted from your income before determining how much tax you will owe. Let's presume, for the sake of argument, that he doesn't list any of these personal expenses, and his adjusted gross income is the same as his total income.

The consulate isn't going to go overboard with these calculations. The easiest assumption for them to make is that his comparable business deductions will be the same percentage of his gross earnings. For example, he had $5333.32 in gross earnings and $2225.32 in business deductions, right? That means he deducted about 42% of his gross earnings as business deductions.

Ok, his annualized gross earnings are now about $27,600. By "annualized earnings" I'm referring to how much he would be making if he continued earning the same amount for a full year. If they apply the same percentage for his business deductions as he took in the previous year, then he would potentially be deducting about $11,592 for business deductions, which leaves a total income of $16,008. He's a little over $2000 short to qualify as a sole sponsor.

I'm not saying that the consulate WILL make this assumption. They can juggle the numbers any way they see fit. I'm just saying that they don't have evidence that he is clearly eligible, which means one or more tax returns showing a sufficient total income, so they will have to extrapolate from the information they have.

Jim thank you so much that $2225 is just my own calculations i did not know how much business expense deductions he declared in last year income...I just base it in this 1040 form where i saw line 12 business income or loss amounted to $3108 i deduct it in the nonemployee compensation in 1099 ($5333.32 less $3108 =$2225.32) and in my understanding i assume that $2225 will be his business expenses

Since he was below poverty guideline last year what we will show as evidence of current sustained income is his present and ongoing earnings..My fiance said he has lesser business deductions this year compared to last year? what are ways we could do now that will show CO that 42%or any percentage of business expense deductions last year is lowered this year since he has new employer now? Jim i am ashamed of you for asking too much,but im so helpless really..thank you for understanding

[ianandjan 0]

Jim thank you so much that $2225 is just my own calculations i did not know how much business expense deductions he declared in last year income...I just base it in this 1040 form where i saw line 12 business income or loss amounted to $3108 i deduct it in the nonemployee compensation in 1099 ($5333.32 less $3108 =$2225.32) and in my understanding i assume that $2225 will be his business expenses

Since he was below poverty guideline last year what we will show as evidence of current sustained income is his present and ongoing earnings..My fiance said he has lesser business deductions this year compared to last year? what are ways we could do now that will show CO that 42%or any percentage of business expense deductions last year is lowered this year since he has new employer now? Jim i am ashamed of you for asking too much,but im so helpless really..thank you for understanding

Jim i am sorry yes it is line 37 in 1040 adjusted gross income . its line 37 not 34 im sorry

[thaiv 15]

Maybe I missed something, but I thought they look at your salary BEFORE taxes are deducted anyways. If you are not deducted in your current pay checks, you may just have to pay something later when you file taxes which would equate to what you should have paid anyways. What is the big deal?

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Jim thank you so much that $2225 is just my own calculations i did not know how much business expense deductions he declared in last year income...I just base it in this 1040 form where i saw line 12 business income or loss amounted to $3108 i deduct it in the nonemployee compensation in 1099 ($5333.32 less $3108 =$2225.32) and in my understanding i assume that $2225 will be his business expenses

Since he was below poverty guideline last year what we will show as evidence of current sustained income is his present and ongoing earnings..My fiance said he has lesser business deductions this year compared to last year? what are ways we could do now that will show CO that 42%or any percentage of business expense deductions last year is lowered this year since he has new employer now? Jim i am ashamed of you for asking too much,but im so helpless really..thank you for understanding

The way you calculated it was probably reasonable. What you say on line 12 is the amount that is carried over from Schedule C, so yes - it is his gross receipts minus his business deductions.

There's nothing you can do to prove his business deductions will be lower this year. Anything you presented would be speculation. None of it becomes a fact until he actually files his tax return. All you can do is provide what you've got and hope for the best.

Maybe I missed something, but I thought they look at your salary BEFORE taxes are deducted anyways. If you are not deducted in your current pay checks, you may just have to pay something later when you file taxes which would equate to what you should have paid anyways. What is the big deal?

What you missed is that the OP's fiance is self-employed. He doesn't receive a salary. What he receives are gross receipts of a small business. Comparing the salary of an employee and the gross receipts of a self-employed person is apples and oranges. The distinction is huge. This would be like looking at the gross receipts of a big corporation and presuming that's how much money the CEO makes, without factoring in any of the expenses the corporation pays to stay in business. Self-employed people have similar expenses, and they are allowed to deduct them. The IRS presumes that what they have to live on is what's left over after these business expenses have been deducted. A regular employee doesn't have these expenses - their employer has them, and their employer is allowed to deduct them. However, for both a regular employee and a self-employed person, their actual personal income is reflected on line 22 of the 1040. For most regular employees, line 22 is the same as the sum total of their paychecks. For most self-employed persons, it's substantially less.

USCIS and US consulates use line 22 of the 1040 (or line 15 of a 1040A, or line 4 of a 1040EZ) as the qualifying income for an affidavit of support. For a self-employed person, the amount on line 22 is after they've deducted their business expenses.

[thaiv 15]

Well, technically I am still hired as a contract worker at my job and I do not get tax deductions either. This is only temporary though, because at the start of the year they will have me on as a full time, permanent employee. Does the fact that I do not get tax deductions pose a problem for me?

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Well, technically I am still hired as a contract worker at my job and I do not get tax deductions either. This is only temporary though, because at the start of the year they will have me on as a full time, permanent employee. Does the fact that I do not get tax deductions pose a problem for me?

If you are a contract employee then you are a separate business entity from your employer, and you have every right to take deductions for your legitimate business related expenses. Nobody knows how much you'll deduct for those expenses until you actually file your tax return.

Nobody can say for certain how a consular officer is going to look at pay stubs from a contract employee. They see enough tax returns to know that a contract employee can take substantial deductions for their business expenses. If they want to, they can guess how much you'll deduct to figure out how much total income you'll have for the year. Or, they could just take the sum total of your payments as your total income. It's up to the CO because they have discretion.

My guess is that if your gross receipts are well above the margin then they'll accept your affidavit as sufficient. If you're close - within 15% or 20% - they may presume your business deductions will put you under the limit, and reject it. But that's just a guess. The OP is dealing with the consulate in Manila, which usually doesn't accept co-sponsors. The consulate in CDJ usually does. If you think you might be close to the minimum then you could line up a co-sponsor, just in case.

[ianandjan 0]

Jim thank you again..do you have idea whats 1040 ES,will this form helpful for us to show the income my fiance will have monthly ?will this form show that the business expense deductions was lowered? Can we have 1040-ES forms monthly since we just want to show CO the current sustained income so its his recent job which he has started september 2010 and ongoing job till now. will the 1040 form be able to show CO the income my fiance make monthly after all business deduction expense ,federal tax,medicare,and ss tax ?