Clinton blasts State Department leaks as 'an attack'

[Ban Hammer 13,474]

I think you'll like reading this-

WikiLeaks: One Analyst, So Many Documents

kinda boring really. nothing new in there for me.

[luckytxn 2,265]

so he'll be seeing the new db.

no one allowed him to do this - he did it on his own. and it should also be pointed out that having a clearance is a position of trust, a trust he abused.

And a decision he will have a long time in a military prison to contemplate.

Now when I had a security clearance and had to type and or go get classifieds I had to get an OK from higher up and I signed a sheet stating I was taking it and the date and time and then sign again when I placed it back and then return the sheet that gave me the OK back to the higher up. We were monitored somewhat though but I will admit that it was possible to somehow copy this info and take it as the watchers were always screwing around.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Do 2.5-3 million people really need access to supposedly "secret" material? Seems like something like this was inevitable. That's what you get for having poor processes.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Its neither treason or terrorism, its espionage. Expect the US to formally charge him within a week or two.

[lostinblue 1,989]

Its neither treason or terrorism, its espionage. Expect the US to formally charge him within a week or two.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2010/1130/Did-WikiLeaks-founder-Julian-Assange-commit-a-crime

Did WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange commit a crime?

The US Justice and Defense departments are investigating whether they can press charges against Australian citizen and WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, possibly under the Espionage Act.

[^_^ 5,021]

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2010/1130/Did-WikiLeaks-founder-Julian-Assange-commit-a-crime

Did WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange commit a crime?

The US Justice and Defense departments are investigating whether they can press charges against Australian citizen and WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, possibly under the Espionage Act.

What they should be doing is find him and shoot him. Then shoot his direct reports.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

LOL for the SHEEP.

Vietnam, South America, Central America, Iraq, etc.... how soon we forget just how far our government will go to #### us and the civilians of other country's over.

Don't be sheep. It's your right as a US citizen to know the truth. Don't ever think your government always has your best interest at heart. It was the media, whistle blowers, and the common protester who helped stop the travesty over in Vietnam.

[The_Dude 1,142]

What they should be doing is find him and shoot him. Then shoot his direct reports.

I would think that they would charge the guy in the millitary who smuggled out the documents and gave them to wikileaks. That guy should be shot in the head.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If he isn't a us citizen it's not treason either. I don't think there is a precedent for this situation, to be honest.

I am surprised Hillary isn't quoting what Sarah Palin is saying about the whole thing.

If anyone believes it was an Army Private that actually did this, you are as looney as a tune. The Pvt. gets the blame. Typical government...blame the LOWEST guy on the totem pole. You can tell it is not a "for profit" operation.

The wiki leaks guy ought to just turn up dead with a bullet to the back of the head while visiting a museum or something. But I am sure they do not need the collective wisdom of VJ to figure that out. If he is just "disappeared" there is no debate about whether it is treason or not. Are you kidding me?

LOL for the SHEEP.

Vietnam, South America, Central America, Iraq, etc.... how soon we forget just how far our government will go to #### us and the civilians of other country's over.

Don't be sheep. It's your right as a US citizen to know the truth. Don't ever think your government always has your best interest at heart. It was the media, whistle blowers, and the common protester who helped stop the travesty over in Vietnam.

But you want them to handle your medical care?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Do 2.5-3 million people really need access to supposedly "secret" material? Seems like something like this was inevitable. That's what you get for having poor processes.

But I am reasonable certain the same 2.5-3 million people wil make good decisions about my health care. If not, they can blame the receptionist.

kinda boring really. nothing new in there for me.

That is because you are a Mod on VJ, Charles. YOU can handle the truth.

[rlogan 2,036]

What crimes were committed?

The first day's analysis has Hillary Clinton ordering the theft of credit card and other personal information from U.N. officials, among other things - which is not just an ordinary criminal act, but also a serious crime under international law, and the U.N. Treaty for one.

What seems to be clear in a lot of these posts is blind faith in government officials and the belief that the citizens' business should be kept secret from them. So it is a circular argument to say we should be disallowed to know what the government is doing, but somehow magically be able to identify misconduct.

I could not disagree more with that, not just from even the most superficial review of history, but having served as an elected official myself. The business of government, when the government is working for the people rather than ruling them as slaves, is open and transparent to the people. The people do not govern when the government secrets everything away. There is no point in our history where the State Secrets privilege, National "Security" (Itself a new creation of only the last half of the 20th century) and etc. have hidden more from the people.

At the same time there is increasingly less left of the Bill of Rights, with the 4th amendment pertinent to this discussion having been nearly in whole eliminated. The government now asserts the right to search and seize all of our correspondence, effectively strip search us at airports and in the future other mass transit too, whilst at the same time claiming its own affairs cannot be viewed by us - and indeed is making refusal to bare oneself naked an imprisonable offense.

There is a huge difference between patriotism and blind obedience to government. Blind obedience to government is more than being a sheep. It is the willingness to pull the lever on the gas chamber and put a bullet in the head of your fellow citizens. It is the cheering masses in the Roman Coluseum entertaining themselves watching animals rip people apart because their religion was not sanctioned by the state. It is German officers annihilating Jews. It is Japanese officers raping Nanking. It is the U.S. in the Philippines in 1898-1902.

It is the people who are supposed to rule the government, not vice-versa. It is the people who should be secure in their papers, person, and effects like the constitution says, and not the government secure in its dealings being secret from the people.

[Ban Hammer 13,474]

That is because you are a Mod on VJ, Charles. YOU can handle the truth.

or i've dealt with that sorta stuff for 30 years.....

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I think that BY is really Wiki Leaks founder Julian Assange and he was here to overthrow the country. :devil:

[scandal 951]

The first day's analysis has Hillary Clinton ordering the theft of credit card and other personal information from U.N. officials, among other things - which is not just an ordinary criminal act, but also a serious crime under international law, and the U.N. Treaty for one.

What seems to be clear in a lot of these posts is blind faith in government officials and the belief that the citizens' business should be kept secret from them. So it is a circular argument to say we should be disallowed to know what the government is doing, but somehow magically be able to identify misconduct.

I could not disagree more with that, not just from even the most superficial review of history, but having served as an elected official myself. The business of government, when the government is working for the people rather than ruling them as slaves, is open and transparent to the people. The people do not govern when the government secrets everything away. There is no point in our history where the State Secrets privilege, National "Security" (Itself a new creation of only the last half of the 20th century) and etc. have hidden more from the people.

At the same time there is increasingly less left of the Bill of Rights, with the 4th amendment pertinent to this discussion having been nearly in whole eliminated. The government now asserts the right to search and seize all of our correspondence, effectively strip search us at airports and in the future other mass transit too, whilst at the same time claiming its own affairs cannot be viewed by us - and indeed is making refusal to bare oneself naked an imprisonable offense.

There is a huge difference between patriotism and blind obedience to government. Blind obedience to government is more than being a sheep. It is the willingness to pull the lever on the gas chamber and put a bullet in the head of your fellow citizens. It is the cheering masses in the Roman Coluseum entertaining themselves watching animals rip people apart because their religion was not sanctioned by the state. It is German officers annihilating Jews. It is Japanese officers raping Nanking. It is the U.S. in the Philippines in 1898-1902.

It is the people who are supposed to rule the government, not vice-versa. It is the people who should be secure in their papers, person, and effects like the constitution says, and not the government secure in its dealings being secret from the people.

That's a very well written post, and it makes very persuasive arguments. Your overall sentiment I agree with myself - that an active and aware citizenry is needed to curtail the excesses of its government. A free press, freedom of speech and association - these are the basic tools to keep tyrants at bay. In domestic matters, having strong sunshine laws to keep the workings of our public officials (elected and appointed) out in the open where all can see them is a wonderful thing.

However, I do take exception to some of what you write, and to its applicability in this case of the WikiLeaks.

To begin with, I believe it's essential that certain governmental operations, particularly those dealing with sensitive matters of national security and our external relations with foreign governments, do require and deserve the protection of secrecy. We do not, for example, want our tactical military manuals out there for all to see, nor the designs and plans of our advanced military armaments, our cyber-security plans, or our nuclear war games scenarios. This is not some new doctrine being invented in our present era of 9/11 and War on Terror. The concept that government and the military do have legitimate "state secrets" dates to at least the Civil War, and really earlier than that. The use of diplomatic pouches to send sensitive and secret mail between foreign embassies and home government offices goes back to Medieval times if not earlier.

That's not to say that we don't need oversight and scrutiny and checks and balances, even with such sensitive secret material. In the USA, we achieve that through our branches of government. Members of the Congressional Armed Services Committees (House and Senate) and Intelligence Committees are given top secret clearance to the necessary documents and materials to provide that oversight, and have the power to hold hearings and subpoena Administration officials, military officers, Intelligence officers at will. Federal courts are granted accesss when required as well. The system has served us for centuries, pretty well I might add.

Who in the bleep is this Julian Assange character to come along and tell us that he knows better than us what's good for us and our democracy? Who is this foreginer to usurp the prerogative of our government to act in the best interests of our national security?

It seems there is some doubt of whether he's broken any US law, or international law. That's as may be. But it seems patently obvious that he's putting real lives into harm's way - courageous Afghan informants working with US and NATO forces in Afghanistan have been outed by this thug, endangering them and their families. This is a hero of democracy? A hero of the common man? Come on. He's a stinker, and he needs to be put out of business. Permanently. Quickly. I for one don't care too much how he gets it, he's got it coming to him.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I am surprised Hillary isn't quoting what Sarah Palin is saying about the whole thing.

If anyone believes it was an Army Private that actually did this, you are as looney as a tune. The Pvt. gets the blame. Typical government...blame the LOWEST guy on the totem pole. You can tell it is not a "for profit" operation.

The wiki leaks guy ought to just turn up dead with a bullet to the back of the head while visiting a museum or something. But I am sure they do not need the collective wisdom of VJ to figure that out. If he is just "disappeared" there is no debate about whether it is treason or not. Are you kidding me?

But you want them to handle your medical care?

You really like connecting unconnected dots font you