More Second Hand Smoke Scare Tactics....

[Kathryn41 3,205]

no duh, charles.. he was being sarcastic..

Yes, he was being sarcastic and I know Charles also realizes that, however there are a lot of people on this forum for whom English is not their first language and who may not be familiar with certain chemicals reactions because it is not part of their experience and may not realize that. I've removed the first post although I have left the second one quoting it along with Charles' comment that this combination of chemicals is toxic mainly because it is dangerous and I don't want anyone who may not realize the nature of this 'sarcasm' to take the 'advice' to heart as if it was meant seriously.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Kathryn41

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Yes, he was being sarcastic and I know Charles also realizes that, however there are a lot of people on this forum for whom English is not their first language and who may not be familiar with certain chemicals reactions because it is not part of their experience and may not realize that. I've removed the first post although I have left the second one quoting it along with Charles' comment that this combination of chemicals is toxic mainly because it is dangerous and I don't want anyone who may not realize the nature of this 'sarcasm' to take the 'advice' to heart as if it was meant seriously.

I certainly didn't intend to mislead anyone by posting that. I think we all know I was being sarcastic since it was in response to those who think that cigarette smoke is not harmful. I never gave it a thought that someone who read that post would not know that it was dangerous. For most of us, it is common knowledge, but some may not be aware of the danger.

[Danno 1,228]

So you would have no problem exposing your children to second hand smoke on a constant basis, ie, smoking in the car, house etc., even if they were infants? And you honestly believe that this causes no harm?

No one smokes in my house but I certainly would not hesitate to send kids to an uncles house who smokes for a weekend or longer.

You people with your fat little kids who are emotionally flabby crack me up with your "health concerns".

[spookyturtle 9,466]

No one smokes in my house but I certainly would not hesitate to send kids to an uncles house who smokes for a weekend or longer.

You people with your fat little kids who are emotionally flabby crack me up with your "health concerns".

I don't recall mentioning whether I had children or not.

[Ban Hammer 13,512]

Yes, he was being sarcastic and I know Charles also realizes that, however there are a lot of people on this forum for whom English is not their first language and who may not be familiar with certain chemicals reactions because it is not part of their experience and may not realize that. I've removed the first post although I have left the second one quoting it along with Charles' comment that this combination of chemicals is toxic mainly because it is dangerous and I don't want anyone who may not realize the nature of this 'sarcasm' to take the 'advice' to heart as if it was meant seriously.

[Danno 1,228]

I don't recall mentioning whether I had children or not.

I didn't mean that personally....If I knew you had a chubby kid, I would not have thrown that out there.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

I certainly didn't intend to mislead anyone by posting that. I think we all know I was being sarcastic since it was in response to those who think that cigarette smoke is not harmful. I never gave it a thought that someone who read that post would not know that it was dangerous. For most of us, it is common knowledge, but some may not be aware of the danger.

I know .

My grandfather (Mom's Dad) died of lung cancer in his 60s. He smoked all his life - started young.

My grandmother (Mom's Mom) died of lung cancer at 56 yrs old. She smoked all her adult life.

My aunt (mom's youngest sister) died of lung cancer at 60 yrs old. She smoked all her life - started young . Doctor's definitely attributed her death to her cigarette smoking habit;

My aunt (Mom's next youngest sister) died of lung cancer at 65 years old. She smoked all of her life - started young. Doctors' definitely attributed her death to her cigarette smoking habit.

My Mom smoked since she was 12 years old and developed COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease) https://health.google.com/health/ref/Chronic+obstructive+pulmonary+disease and had to quit smoking at 50 years old. The doctors categorically stated the COPD was caused by her smoking. The damage was done, however, and she was never able to breathe easily again, and always had to have her inhalers readily available. She too died of cancer-related complications, although the type of cancer was never specified, at 70 yrs old 20 years after she stopped smoking.

My Dad started smoking in University and stopped cold-turkey when my Mom was diagnosed with COPD. He is now 82.

My brother and I never smoked. We both grew up listening to our parents starting every day of their lives with this horrible hacking and coughing before they could function. We both vowed never to let this happen to us. I was constantly sick with colds when I was a child, and it wasn't until I moved out on my own as a young adult that I went more than 2 months without a cold.. (My first roommate was also a smoker). No one around me smokes and now I go several years in between colds.

One visit home shortly after I started living on my own, I was driving with my parents for several hours in a closed car as they smoked. After about 2 hours, my throat constricted. I couldn't breathe and I couldn't speak. We had to stop driving and I had to get out of the car before I was able to stop gasping for air. I completely lost my voice. We drove the rest of the way home with the windows open even though it was cold - and no one smoking. It was over a week before I got my voice back again. Turns out I am allergic to cigarette smoke. Even today, if I enter a bar or an enclosed building with cigarette smokers my throat starts to close up again and I have to leave. The effects last several hours even if the exposure was for a short time.

So, you can say all you like that cigarette smoke and second hand smoke is harmless. I know differently from personal experience.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I'm actually surprised to hear people argue otherwise. This is amazing, even for VJ.

[Danno 1,228]

I'm actually surprised to hear people argue otherwise. This is amazing, even for VJ.

To argue what?

That standing around a campfire breathing in smoke might be bad for a kid?

Who could possible believe breathing in smoke, or car fumes or dust could be healthy?

On the other hand, I think it's silly to see all these things in modest amounts as something to worry about excessively.

The same people who are worried about second and third hand smoke..... think nothing of letting a kid eat a happy meal or drink Pepsi.... (because it's in modest amounts doncha know.)

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yes, he was being sarcastic and I know Charles also realizes that, however there are a lot of people on this forum for whom English is not their first language and who may not be familiar with certain chemicals reactions

Yeah! Lots of Australians post here.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Yeah! Lots of Australians post here.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

To argue what?

That standing around a campfire breathing in smoke might be bad for a kid?

Who could possible believe breathing in smoke, or car fumes or dust could be healthy?

On the other hand, I think it's silly to see all these things in modest amounts as something to worry about excessively.

The same people who are worried about second and third hand smoke..... think nothing of letting a kid eat a happy meal or drink Pepsi.... (because it's in modest amounts doncha know.)

Paul said second hand smoke causes no harm and that there is no proof that smoking is hazardous to your health or those around you. He said that it is the government telling us that. And you have implied similar in your posts. I really don't whether you smoke or not, my sole point in this discussion is that smoking is harmful to one's health and that it is utterly foolish to suggest that there are no proven long term consequences.

[Amby 490]

Secondhand smoke: Unsafe in any amount

Smoking, first fingered as a prime cause of lung cancer, also contributes to heart disease. Compared with nonsmokers, smokers have double the chances of having a heart attack or stroke. Doctors all agree that if you are a smoker, you are increasing your risk of having heart disease.

About 20 years ago, evidence surfaced that nonsmokers were at risk from being exposed secondhand to someone else's cigarette smoke. At first, a lot of doctors were skeptical that simply inhaling smoke from someone else's cigarette—such as on an airplane or in a restaurant, or at home with a smoking spouse—could really injure the health of a nonsmoker. However, there is now very strong evidence that it can.

Nevertheless, there is still an acrimonious and politically charged debate about secondhand smoke, particularly from owners of businesses such as restaurants and bars who think their business is threatened by no-smoking laws. They cite studies that do not show negative health effects from secondhand smoke. However, most health professionals have come to agree that there is now strong evidence that secondhand smoke is bad for us.

In the city of Helena , Montana , a law that banned smoking in restaurants, bars, offices, and other public venues was in place for six months before a judge overturned it. During the ban, the number of people seen for heart attacks at the only cardiac care hospital for miles was only half of what it had been before the law was enacted and after it had been struck down.

Writing in the April 24, 2004 British Medical Journal, the local cardiologists who carried out the widely publicized study acknowledged the study's limitations. These include Helena 's small size and lack of knowledge about heart attack victims' exposure to secondhand smoke. That said, they conclude that the establishment of smoke-free public places could have a quick and beneficial effect on heart disease.

Blood levels of cotinine (KOE-tin-een), a substance formed when the body breaks down nicotine, are one way to measure exposure to smoke. A team of British researchers looked at cotinine levels in more than 2,000 men who said they didn't smoke to gauge the impact of secondhand smoke.

Cotinine levels were closely linked with exposure to secondhand smoke and to heart disease. After 20 years of follow-up, 18% of the men with the highest cotinine levels had developed heart disease — the same percentage as light smokers — compared to 10% of those with the lowest levels.

Cigarette smoke contains more than 4,000 substances. Nicotine, one of the best known, is the prime addictive element. Other substances in cigarette smoke generate free radicals—natural chemicals that stimulate atherosclerosis in the body's arteries. Cigarette smoke also revs up inflammation, another process at the root of heart disease.

One of the mysteries of secondhand smoke is how it can cause nearly the same level of damage as smoking. There is evidence that, in nonsmokers, exposure to secondhand smoke restricts the ability of coronary arteries to widen and carry more blood when stressed.

Secondhand smoke also makes blood more likely to clot. The combination of arteries that have trouble in widening and an increased tendency to form blood clots creates a double whammy that could trigger a heart attack, especially in nonsmokers who already have heart disease.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that secondhand smoke is responsible for 35,000 deaths a year. It's a special risk for people who work in smoke-filled rooms, like waitresses and bartenders. In fact, the CDC now urges people with heart disease or at high risk for it to stay away from indoor settings where smoking is allowed.

If you smoke, you need to know that your habit directly affects the health of others. If you don't smoke, don't hesitate to ask a smoker to "take it outside," especially if you have heart disease. The evidence is that secondhand smoke is more than just a nuisance — it's also bad for you.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/update1104c.shtml

[Amby 490]

Crystal and colleagues took urine samples from 121 participants to see how much exposure people had to cigarette smoke, measuring nicotine and its breakdown products. This allowed them to classify participants as active smokers, nonsmokers, and people with low-level exposure.

Then, researchers took a small sample of cells lining participants' airways. These cells, called epithelial cells, are fundamental to the diseases of cigarette smoke, such as lung cancer.

They found that even extremely low levels of exposure to cigarette smoke produced detectable abnormal genetic activity in these cells. This included people who said they didn't smoke, and occasional smokers.

http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/20/secondhand-smoke-occasional-cigarettes-do-harm/

[Danno 1,228]

Paul said second hand smoke causes no harm and that there is no proof that smoking is hazardous to your health or those around you. He said that it is the government telling us that. And you have implied similar in your posts. I really don't whether you smoke or not, my sole point in this discussion is that smoking is harmful to one's health and that it is utterly foolish to suggest that there are no proven long term consequences.

Now see, there you go again.

There are plenty of people (In the billions) who have smoked with absolutely no ill effects, I am one of them and I know many many more.

This smoking phobia is just silly.

Smoking raises ones "risk".

Speeding on the roadway raises ones risk as does using a bicycle over a car to commute to work.

Eating beef too many time a week is unhealthy .... as is cleaning out your gutters.

Alcohol... Yikes! I have seen 2 people die from that and a number of lives damages by the (second-hand, if you will) effects of it.

I propose we put a limit and or special tax on any parent who drinks to an excessive amount which will be determined by Congress.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Danno