Why Are We Still in Korea?

[Ban Hammer 13,474]

A carrier? Really?

A modern nuclear attack submarine is a very good reason not to send a carrier up against a technologically sophisticated adversary. US anti-submarine tech is good, but the Brits, the French, the Russians and the Chinese have nuclear subs that could get close enough to a carrier to send it to the bottom without warning. Not smart.

Carriers are great for sabre-rattling weaker nations. They do nothing against contemporaries.

unless they have some attack subs as part of that force doing anti sub ops.

[Pooky 3,825]

You could not be more wrong on the facts.

North Korea.

Population

- 2009 estimate 24,051,218

South Korea

- 2010 estimate 48,875,000

Noth Korea

GDP $28.2 billion

South Korea

GDP $1.457 trillion

SOuth Korea has twice the people and many many times the resources to defend it's self.

Wars are a reality of life, how much American Blood and treasure (credit) are we willing to burn up to create the Perfect world.

After we run our Nation into the dirt.. who will take up the cause then?

Instead of looking at the population, look at the size of the armed forces.

South Korea has a total of 680,000. North Korea, including reserves, has almost 8 million. If anything kicks off, there will be a bloodbath, but the numbers could well make the difference.

America's presence, at 28,600, sounds like a drop in the ocean in comparison, but it acts as a deterrent, a barrier to ideological stupidity. Because behind those numbers is a very, very big stick.

[Pooky 3,825]

unless they have some attack subs as part of that force doing anti sub ops.

Surface ships are better for anti-submarine operations than attack subs themselves, as their reach is longer and the array of armament is more responsive.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Pooky

[scandal 951]

Having American forces in Europe is getting hard to understand, or justify, other than a symbolic presence, or maybe a staging post. But South-East Asia? Pull out of there and there will be a dramatic shift in the balance of power.

I agree with this. The only present day value I see from our German presence is the Landstuhl medical center and adjacent Ramstein airbase. The existence of these facilities has saved many American servicemen/women's lives, flown in from Iraq and Afghanistan.

I would be in favor of gradually shutting down the rest of the US presence in Europe.

Asia is whole 'nuther story. If we needed any kind of wakeup call of how unstable and unpredictable it is, the events in Korea this week should serve that purpose.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

One thing I would like to see happen is that the hawks in Japan finally get their way and modify their constitution to remove the US pacifist clause. I think with that gone, they would likely expand the SDF and have a much larger impact on the pacific.

[luckytxn 2,265]

And how long after the South is overwhelmed by the sheer number of North Korean troops would China make a play to annex both Koreas? And if the USA withdraws from South-East Asia, how long would Taiwan last before the Chinese intervene to reunite the Chinese people? Then what?

Japan is still bound by international treaty to hold only a defence force. China's military is already superior in numbers and not far behind in technological parity and closing fast. What would they be able to do with the American hardware that would be the inevitable bounty from South Korea and Taiwan?

Having American forces in Europe is getting hard to understand, or justify, other than a symbolic presence, or maybe a staging post. But South-East Asia? Pull out of there and there will be a dramatic shift in the balance of power.

So, do you really want China in a position to be world policeman?

The north would have a hard time to take the south. I served there and the south is well trained now and have a pretty nice set of weapons to protect themselves. What would stop the south as always is Seoul. Seoul is a huge modern vibrant city that is also a huge financial mecca for the region. The north could be hitting Seoul with around 100,000 artillery, rockets, shells an hour and devastate that city within a couple of hours. The north knows this and holds them hostage because of this. The north can do whatever they want and the south is powerless unless they want to lose everything. The south would win in the end but what a win it would be.

Japan is bound by their own constitution. No international treaty binds them and even if they did what is to stop them from rebuilding a military force. They cannily have us to keep them safe and that means we spend a fortune protecting them.

I dare China to try to take Taiwan. Taiwan is like an armed fortress and it would be very costly to China. The only thing they could do to topple Taiwan is to encircle them and enforce a blockade and stifle them and even then they would put themselves in danger. The U.S. would not go to a nuclear war footing to save Taiwan. So go ahead China take that island.

China may seem like they have the goods and fortune to be the worlds policeman but they are far from that for now. They are still considered 30 years behind the states in hardware right now. They also are way behind in attack subs knowledge. Their subs are still the laughingstock and are said to be among the noisiest. They are starting to build a pretty good navy but between the U.S. and China the U.S. would rule the skies and that makes their navy too vulnerable and on the losing end of any contest. They do have a surplus and spend a good amount on hardware and the military but they have a long ways to go to have a chance to be superior. They do have a huge land force people wise. It would be hard to crush the waves of people as they can bring to any battlefield a crushing number but they did that in Korean war and we somehow managed to hold them to a standstill. Our air force ruled then too. They also do not have near the fortune to be able to sustain being in a long term policeman of the region. They will bleed many fortunes while we can laugh at them from afar.

If everyone is so scared of China here then tough. They just seem scary from afar. Japan would only ####### when we pull out and they have to actually spend their own fortune to start protecting themselves. South Korea would finally get to show if they have the balls to let go of their guardian and go on their own. They will need to make hard decisions. Taiwan has been prepared for China a long time. China has already tried to take Taiwan and failed. (Many don't know this)

It is times for us to stop being imperialists and bring our heroes home. Europe does not need us. We have too many troops still in Germany. Germany is strong and can handle anything. The middle east will have a vacuum for sure but Europe needs that oil more than us and can try to vie with China for it. China or Russia makes a play for that region then it will take many fortunes to hold it and we can laugh at them from afar. (Russia tried once remember?) In the mean time we can start to recuperate and become strong financially. When the dust settles then we will be there to pick up what pieces we deem is important to us.

[peejay 327]

America can no longer afford it's position as primary policeman of the world. Prestige be damned. Of course we are more than capable of defending our homeland and our strategic interests. However, we cannot afford to save the world anymore (much less forever). It's time to face reality and look out primarily for our own interests. Let the leeches fend for themselves. We should have cut the cord long ago.

[Danno 1,228]

No one has yet to point out our "vital" interests in the region that would warrant our involvement in such a war.

I posted this topic to actually hear differing points of view.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You could not be more wrong on the facts.

North Korea.

Population

- 2009 estimate 24,051,218

South Korea

- 2010 estimate 48,875,000

Noth Korea

GDP $28.2 billion

South Korea

GDP $1.457 trillion

You forgot one stat:

South Korea Military: 655,000 active force and 3,040,000 regular reserve

North Korea Military: 1,106,000 active and 8,200,000 reserve

North Korea has the fourth largest army in the world and is thus the most militarized country there is.

[Danno 1,228]

You forgot one stat:

South Korea Military: 655,000 active force and 3,040,000 regular reserve

North Korea Military: 1,106,000 active and 8,200,000 reserve

North Korea has the fourth largest army in the world and is thus the most militarized country there is.

Valid point but:

a. The reason S Korea is under prepared is because we are there.

b. We should not entangle ourselves in war simply because it does not appear to be an even match.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

No one has yet to point out our "vital" interests in the region that would warrant our involvement in such a war.

I posted this topic to actually hear differing points of view.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No one has yet to point out our "vital" interests in the region that would warrant our involvement in such a war.

I posted this topic to actually hear differing points of view.

Geopolitics Danno. The us has an interest in preserving the balance of power in the far east. It's how the us maintains its position in the world.

It's why "we" are in the middle east as well.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Ron Burgundy

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Geopolitics Danno. The us has an interest in preserving the balance of power in the far east. It's how the us maintains its position in the world.

It's why "we" are in the middle east as well.

The ME has another component to it - they have our oil under their sand.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's the same - complex spiders web of complex economic, political, military and resource relationships

[peejay 327]

The ME has another component to it - they have our oil under their sand.

I used to snicker during the first Gulf War when the lunatic fringe would crawl out from under their rocks to proclaim "No more blood for oil". And Bush #1 would babble on about freedom and democracy is why we were there. Ha!

Of course we were (and are) there for the oil. It would rock our world if a huge slice of ME oil was removed from the world markets. It is in our strategic interest to be there.

I'm not sold on whether the Korean peninsula is worth more American blood or treasure.