Russian out Ukrainian in

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Gary, having lived and worked over in that area of the world, you certainly have more experience than most of us average visitors and tourists...so your observations carry more weight. I personally can't make any comparisons because I never connected with a Ukrainian lady.

With that said, I think the personalities of any "FSU" women are the result of many variables beyond just country of residence. I mean, I would think village Ukrainians would be different than city girls. That western Ukrainians would be different than eastern. That women who lived under the USSR would differ from the ones who either can't remember the USSR or never had to deal with it. That "real" Ukrainian heritage women would differ from those whose relatives immigrated there from Russia or other USSR areas.

So...I wonder what reason(s) you (or others) think makes women who live within the boundaries of Ukraine different from those who live in the confines of Russia? And is it so dramatic as being worth even mentioning?

Would it be worth mentioning that a woman from New York City may be wound a little tighter than say, a woman from Arkansas? Could one say that women from Texas have a milder or better temperment than women from Connecticut? I don't know. I think there are some general differences which can be easily negated by individuals. Fromw what I have seen in Ukraine and here with our RUB/American friends is that the Russian women tend to "go off" a little easier than Ukrainians. Thiugh from personal experience I can also say that even sweet Alla can "go off" but they seem to have longer fuses.

Now for Alla's part, she says Ukrainian women are "cleaner" meaning they like a cleaner home, that Ukrainians cook better and make better wives. She could be biased and I guess this when she puts on her Ukrainian hat. She tells the boys to marry Ukrainian women.

[eekee 182]

My mom has always said the same thing... Belarusians and Ukrainians are better housekeepers than Russians, but not as good as Poles, who are not as tidy as Germans...

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My mom has always said the same thing... Belarusians and Ukrainians are better housekeepers than Russians, but not as good as Poles, who are not as tidy as Germans...

There may be truth to that. In my opinion Ukraine is cleaner than Russia (a dubious honor) Poland is cleaner than them both and I thought Germany was TOO clean until I went to Switzerland...OMG that must be a country of obsessive compulsive people!

But I always found that Ukrainian households were far cleaner than the exterior environment so I do not know what you can tell by the exterior conditions.

[Brad and Vika 129]

And yes, they consider Jews to be Jews, not Russian or Ukrainian. I always considered it a religion, they consider it a nationality.

It can be confusing.

We have had a couple of conversations around that subject. A person from Israel is considered Israeli (even if they are Christian). An American Jew is an American when talking about nationality. One of those situations where we look at each other and say "what?" a few times I asked Vika if she would consider herself Orthodox OR Ukrainian, and she answered "both of course". I said "exactly". She said "what?".

[eekee 182]

There are also two words in Russian for Jewish, indicating ethnicity and in a religious sense.

My stepmother is an American Jew, and I've also always gotten the sense from her that she considered it to be her culture/ethnicity as well, that she didn't consider herself to be German-American/Polish-American really, but a Jew.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

We have had a couple of conversations around that subject. A person from Israel is considered Israeli (even if they are Christian). An American Jew is an American when talking about nationality. One of those situations where we look at each other and say "what?" a few times I asked Vika if she would consider herself Orthodox OR Ukrainian, and she answered "both of course". I said "exactly". She said "what?".

I am going to remember that one! We have this conversation every so often. She made the comment that one of her friends is "Yudish" I said "No she is not, she goes to Church with her husband every Sunday" Alla says "She is Yudish" What? "Completely Yudish, it doesn't matter what church she goes to...she is Yudish" How do you know? "Her name... and look at her, she is Red Yudish, completely" Red Yudish? "Yes, not black Yudish, she is not from Isreal, they are black Yudish"

[Brad and Vika 129]

I am going to remember that one! We have this conversation every so often. She made the comment that one of her friends is "Yudish" I said "No she is not, she goes to Church with her husband every Sunday" Alla says "She is Yudish" What? "Completely Yudish, it doesn't matter what church she goes to...she is Yudish" How do you know? "Her name... and look at her, she is Red Yudish, completely" Red Yudish? "Yes, not black Yudish, she is not from Isreal, they are black Yudish"

We were in church last Sunday, when Vika nodded toward a friend of hers and said "her husband, the guy next to her, is jewish". He seemed to be participating in the mass, so I asked how she thought that was possible. She said he is an Orthodox Christian, but jewish. I said "what?"

Edited November 26, 2010 by Brad and Vika

[visaveteran 1]

I asked my very Russian wife who is the better house cleaner and she agreed, surprisingly, that the Ukraine woman was. My own wife is very clean concerning personal hygiene and clothing but just a so-so house cleaner. And her household organizational skills are bad...very bad. I spend too much time looking for things that she puts in the oddest places. Drives me crazy...and has caused most of our disputes. I live in a 980 sq. ft. 2-bedroom condo...so it's not like she has a big house to deal with. I've had to step in and oversee things in order to restore some order as I let things slide too long. But it's an ongoing struggle. My wife is constantly asking where her keys are? Where her cell phone is? Etc. Etc.

My wife also claims that the Ukraine woman is the boss of the marriage. From what Brad and Gary have shared, it sounds like that may be true. Happily, that has not shown up in my relationship. I'm not one who finds bossy women charming. I could have found that here at home without too much searching around. She says, too, that Ukrainian women are more "sneaky" and this is part of their technique to control things around them.

Sorry guys...if I have to hear about dirty Russians, you guys can hear about sneaky, controlling Ukrainians. What is the truth? Probably these stereotypes don't mean much beyond casual observations and anecdotes. There is so much diversity in the former Soviet empire, how can we really classify women based on area of residence or heritage of birth? There are too many other variables...including blind luck...in what kind of woman we end of living with.

[CamIrwin 0]

It is true. No visa needed for US citizens to visit Ukraine. I am partial to Ukrainian girls myself. I could be biased.

Good luck. Ukrainian girls, while still possessed of a mighty "stinger" are far less quick to use it, in my experience. They are more possessive though.

K visa documents are the same. Kiev is very "family visa friendly"

WOW a possessive supermodel, I guess I can live with that, YEEHAW!!!

[slim 1,525]

her household organizational skills are bad...very bad.

I wonder if part of this comes from the storage space options in Russia.

The typical Russian apartment doesn't have much storage space so it's not surprising that things that really shouldn't go places end up in those places. It's almost like as long as something will fit there... that's where it goes. Not surprisingly things like keys and books and whatever else end up missing.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

WOW a possessive supermodel, I guess I can live with that, YEEHAW!!!

Someone has to do it.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I asked my very Russian wife who is the better house cleaner and she agreed, surprisingly, that the Ukraine woman was. My own wife is very clean concerning personal hygiene and clothing but just a so-so house cleaner. And her household organizational skills are bad...very bad. I spend too much time looking for things that she puts in the oddest places. Drives me crazy...and has caused most of our disputes. I live in a 980 sq. ft. 2-bedroom condo...so it's not like she has a big house to deal with. I've had to step in and oversee things in order to restore some order as I let things slide too long. But it's an ongoing struggle. My wife is constantly asking where her keys are? Where her cell phone is? Etc. Etc.

My wife also claims that the Ukraine woman is the boss of the marriage. From what Brad and Gary have shared, it sounds like that may be true. Happily, that has not shown up in my relationship. I'm not one who finds bossy women charming. I could have found that here at home without too much searching around. She says, too, that Ukrainian women are more "sneaky" and this is part of their technique to control things around them.

Sorry guys...if I have to hear about dirty Russians, you guys can hear about sneaky, controlling Ukrainians. What is the truth? Probably these stereotypes don't mean much beyond casual observations and anecdotes. There is so much diversity in the former Soviet empire, how can we really classify women based on area of residence or heritage of birth? There are too many other variables...including blind luck...in what kind of woman we end of living with.

VV - first let me say that I really appreciate the tactful response here I would agree that a Ukrainian woman definitely asserts herself as "boss". It takes a lot of backbone to interrupt that process, and I cannot say that my spine is strong enough (jury is still out - for maybe the next 20 years). I will also agree to sneaky - but in a family strengthening way. Vika says that there is no sense arguing with a man that has a full head of steam on (or a drunk on) for example.

I definitely disagree with any post that suggests that I say Russians are dirty, or anything else. I have a boatload of experience with Ukrainians and Belarusians, but zero with Russians.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I asked my very Russian wife who is the better house cleaner and she agreed, surprisingly, that the Ukraine woman was. My own wife is very clean concerning personal hygiene and clothing but just a so-so house cleaner. And her household organizational skills are bad...very bad. I spend too much time looking for things that she puts in the oddest places. Drives me crazy...and has caused most of our disputes. I live in a 980 sq. ft. 2-bedroom condo...so it's not like she has a big house to deal with. I've had to step in and oversee things in order to restore some order as I let things slide too long. But it's an ongoing struggle. My wife is constantly asking where her keys are? Where her cell phone is? Etc. Etc.

My wife also claims that the Ukraine woman is the boss of the marriage. From what Brad and Gary have shared, it sounds like that may be true. Happily, that has not shown up in my relationship. I'm not one who finds bossy women charming. I could have found that here at home without too much searching around. She says, too, that Ukrainian women are more "sneaky" and this is part of their technique to control things around them.

Sorry guys...if I have to hear about dirty Russians, you guys can hear about sneaky, controlling Ukrainians. What is the truth? Probably these stereotypes don't mean much beyond casual observations and anecdotes. There is so much diversity in the former Soviet empire, how can we really classify women based on area of residence or heritage of birth? There are too many other variables...including blind luck...in what kind of woman we end of living with.

I never ever meant to say that Russian women were dirty in their personal hygiene. No way! And neither are Ukrainians.

Alla is very organized in most things, the house in particular. Everything in its place. Even to picking all the dead leaves out of her flowers every day in the summer. Alla is a slob compared to her mother. She DOES misplace a lot of her personal things...keys, wristwatch, cell phone, etc. But the house is neat and tidy, everything is dusted, cleaned, washed, folded. She is not a person that likes lots of "knicknacks" because they just have to be cleaned and dusted. If we have any recurring mild differences it is because I wear my shoes in the house, leave my socks somewhere or don't hang up my coat.

As far as being the "boss of the marriage" I am not sure what constitutes that term. She is unquestionably the "boss of the house" meaning the furniture is how she wants it, she chooses the colors, the tile, the furniture itself. She does not need me and will typically tell me to go pick up a sofa or a washing machine or a pallet full of tile. I do the work, the heavy lifting. On the other hand, I am unquestionably in charge of the finances, bills, making the money and paying the bills. She never questions that. I do not question her choice of paint. She believes, as I, that a married couple should do for each other whatever they CAN do for each other and that the spouse should be the number one person, children can come first, but nothing else. I do pretty much whatever I want as long as it does not involve even a photo of another woman. I would say she would expect me to see if there is anything she needs my help for before I go off and putter around the woodshop or go skeet shooting. Other than that she does not try to "control me". I am also not one to hang out with drinking buddies and such so there is no conflict there anyway.

I never got the impression Alla was "sneaky", except in fun. She has a rule that the "last one out of bed makes the bed" My rule is..."Why make the bed?" So if I get up first sometimes she will tempt me back to bed with her female charms (I am such a sucker for that) and push me down, jump up and say "You are the last one! You make the bed!" Is that what you mean? Alla is very direct. At least with me she has no need to be sneaky.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

VV - first let me say that I really appreciate the tactful response here I would agree that a Ukrainian woman definitely asserts herself as "boss". It takes a lot of backbone to interrupt that process, and I cannot say that my spine is strong enough (jury is still out - for maybe the next 20 years). I will also agree to sneaky - but in a family strengthening way. Vika says that there is no sense arguing with a man that has a full head of steam on (or a drunk on) for example.

I definitely disagree with any post that suggests that I say Russians are dirty, or anything else. I have a boatload of experience with Ukrainians and Belarusians, but zero with Russians.

Yeah, VV what happened? Never mind, I know what happened. The good news is you can live like a lot of stuff doesn't matter...because it doesn't. Enjoy it.

Brad, do you think Vika is the "boss" in general or just the "boss of the house"? I will also say Alla handles the social calendar also. Fine with me. Alla just has no interest in the fianancial or functional aspects of life. She has no idea what the elctric bill costs, she just turns on the swithc and expects the light to work. If it doesn't, then I didn't do my part.

I simply will not argue with a lot of stuff. And if you don't let them have their way with "their things" then you are some kind of strange man that would argue with a woman over things that don't concern men.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Brad, do you think Vika is the "boss" in general or just the "boss of the house"? I will also say Alla handles the social calendar also. Fine with me. Alla just has no interest in the fianancial or functional aspects of life. She has no idea what the elctric bill costs, she just turns on the swithc and expects the light to work. If it doesn't, then I didn't do my part.

I simply will not argue with a lot of stuff. And if you don't let them have their way with "their things" then you are some kind of strange man that would argue with a woman over things that don't concern men.

First, I think that due to the difference in their ages and life experience, Alla probably has a more clear idea of the role she wants to play in your relationship. At least it sounds that way from what you post here and what you have told me. I think Vika would be the boss of the world if the world would allow it

We spend a good deal of time sorting through the type of off-center Ukrainian logic that I do think runs pretty deep in her culture. I mean the thinking that allows her to want two diametrically opposed things at the same time without seeing the difficulty. For example, she wants (like Alla) to have me just take care of the bills (that is what good men do after all), but she also wants control of the finances, because in Ukraine that's how people do it (sharing everything). She sees no problem - I see a train wreck about to happen. When I say silly things like "how can I just take care of the electric bill if you write all the checks?" she calmly responds by telling me that I forgot to buy onions at the store yesterday - suddenly deciding that this stupid finance issue isn't worth discussing. So I keep doing it.