At what age did you come to realize that God/Devil/Heaven/Hell/Angels/Demons are all man-made fairy tales?

[chri'stina 190]

In my daily life, in the real world, I never talk about religion. I understand (and this goes with any debatable issue with opposing viewpoints) that my view is different than the other view. I've had discussions with my cousin who is a Christian (his father has a church and is a preacher, his brother is "ordained", etc.). It ends up going nowhere and all it does is cause arguing.

I can't even post my "religious beliefs" as Stephen calls them on Facebook as all my family are Christian Conservatives. I would hate to have an aunt or cousin find out that I don't believe in what they believe in. So the religious section on FB is left blank.

So the only time I get to unleash my thoughts are on visajourney so that is why you notice some of my posts are on the topic of religion. But if you look at my post history I would definitely say only about a tenth of my posts (probably much less) are on atheism. Guessing here, but I've only started 5 or 6 (at most) threads on atheism. I must have created hundreds of other threads on pointless news stories.

I enjoy sharing my "beliefs" although I get painted as an evil missionary of atheism trying to convert believers.

I will admit I am a little obsessed with the topic but my purpose is not to convert anyone. I know there are countless other members that do not believe in God and just curious on how and why they got to that point.

I guess you could say I get a thrill up my leg poking fun at religious people.

We atheists don't have get-togethers (like churches/mosques/temples) so the thoughts are often bottled up. I can't discuss my beliefs with friends/family because it would only end up turning into uncomfortable arguments. So it is therapeutic for me to release some of my "opinions" on religion here.

Well if you didn't want your own family members knowing what you do or don't believe, you could delete them off of your FB so that you can speak freely. Or you could just be honest and tell them. My husband grew up Hindu and then became a Christian. Do you think over the years it was easy for him to tell his family and then have it spread to all his relatives in India that he rejected their faith? Sometimes you have to be brave.

I am not sure why us religious VJers have to be the ones to be made fun of by you just because you need an outlet. Especially if you say you don't do this in real life. I try to act the same online and offline. People who act completely different online ruin the internet. What I really don't like, which is probably a pride issue, is when anyone tries to portray me or religious people as stupid. I know I am not stupid, and plenty of religious people aren't. I have people I think of as friends who are agnostic or maybe atheists and I try not to write things that would rudely generalize about people who don't believe.

Edited November 22, 2010 by chri'stina

[Fandango 1,440]

This is not to make fun, but why would you conclude that this man was there because God was answering your prayer? If you'd asked him, you might have found out a perfectly reasonable explanation for why he was in the parking lot.

I think that's the biggest difference between believers and non-believers - the desire to believe.

Well, up until he got in his truck and drove away, I assumed he just was some random guy in a parking lot. It was when he drove away that we both thought 'wth was he doing here in the first place?'

So I choose to believe that's what happened. I don't believe in coincidences.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Nope. The mere belief in a deity does not make a religion.

I agree, which is why I see no philosophical difference between those who firmly believe in a God and those who firmly believe that God doesn't exist in terms of adhering to a set of beliefs. It's really semantics. I understand that atheists don't typically congregate and talk about their belief system, but they embrace a set of beliefs about the origins of life and the universe and that is the foundation of any religion. We can call it a belief system if you will - two sides of the same coin as it is an attempt to explain the unexplainable.

Atheists don't have any set of beliefs - they merely reject the idea thata deity exists.

I disagree - they do have a set of beliefs. They just happened to believe that no God exists. That's the difference between an atheist and an agnostic. There are far more agnostics in this world than actual atheists.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I disagree - they [Atheists] do have a set of beliefs.

What would that "set" be?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

What would that "set" be?

I'll attempt at using an analogy here. Imagine a door that is locked shut. You have two people on the outside facing that door (make that three people). One says he believes there is nothing beyond that door. Another says he believes that there is something beyond that door and goes as far as saying it must be something good. The third person says he's not sure and that it is impossible to know for sure either way.

In that analogy - which of the three do you think represents the atheist?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'll attempt at using an analogy here. Imagine a door that is locked shut. You have two people on the outside facing that door (make that three people). One says he believes there is nothing beyond that door. Another says he believes that there is something beyond that door and goes as far as saying it must be something good. The third person says he's not sure and that it is impossible to know for sure either way.

In that analogy - which of the three do you think represents the atheist?

So, there is no "set" of beliefs that Atheists subscribe to that you can offer in support of your argument.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

So, there is no "set" of beliefs that Atheists subscribe to that you can offer in support of your argument.

What then is the set of beliefs required by someone who believes in the existence of a God? I'm sorry, but I don't see how they are different from each other in that respect. They are two sides of the same coin - both choosing to believe in something they cannot prove.

Edited November 22, 2010 by 8TBVBN

[웃 910]

Well if you didn't want your own family members knowing what you do or don't believe, you could delete them off of your FB so that you can speak freely.

Not just family; FRIENDS too.

So sorry, can't do that. I'm not about to advertise my beliefs on Facebook. It's something personal and I am comfortable discussing them either 1) if in the real world someone asks me for my religious beliefs or 2) on the internet

I try to act the same online and offline. People who act completely different online ruin the internet.

You think Gary, Stephen (maybe Stephen), Mr. Big Dog, <<<fill in VJ name >>> are running around in their everyday lives making fun of the opposite political party and defending theirs? I highly doubt it. Some VJ members have wrote hundreds of pages over the years critiquing either Dems or Repubs. And I bet in their real lives they might get into 1 or 2 political debates a year, at best.

According to your logic Stephen should be passing out at least 40 left-leaning political articles a day to friends/family/strangers. Because BooYa is saying how bad America is in 90% of his posts he should also be dissing America in 90% of the conversations he engages in in his real life. If you looked at Sofiyya's posts in the past 2 months you would think she's out in the streets talking about her religion and breaking the stereotypes. And yes, according to some of my posts I'd be out and about spreading Atheism.

But fortunately for society your logic is wrong on this case. It doesn't work that way and we aren't "ruining the internet".

If a stranger engaged myself, Stephen, BooYa, Sofiyya with a conversation on the street then we would all come across the same way as we do on VJ (if a stranger discussed America with BooYa in a coffee shop, I'd imagine Boo Ya would express his views but of course in a more friendly way).

Maybe you never heard the saying "2 things you don't discuss: politics and religion". That is absolutely true in real life but not true on the internet. It is precisely what makes this forum entertaining because we discuss these hot button issues. So no, we aren't ruining the internet, we are making it much better.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Not really. It's a fairly typical assumption made by the followers of a faith. Atheism is the rejection of the idea that there is a deity. There is no other set of rules, standards or beliefs involved. None. Atheism is merely the opposite of theism - hence the term. Religion requires the existence of a deity - Atheism has none. There's no religion w/o a deity. Hence, Atheism is not a religion.

I thought Obama was your god?

[Peikko 1,575]

I'll attempt at using an analogy here. Imagine a door that is locked shut. You have two people on the outside facing that door (make that three people). One says he believes there is nothing beyond that door. Another says he believes that there is something beyond that door and goes as far as saying it must be something good. The third person says he's not sure and that it is impossible to know for sure either way.

In that analogy - which of the three do you think represents the atheist?

You really do not have a clue what an atheist is, hence why you make these odd claims about atheists being 'believers' in their own religion. Your analogy does not make any sense. Atheists do not pretend to know all answers about the universe - in fact the current estimate is that humans understand about 2% of what there is via predictable observable phenomena. However, what atheists do not do is fill in the 98% that is yet to be discovered and explained with nonsensical mythology because this lack of knowledge is not a vacuum that needs to be filled, atheists can live comfortably without demanding an answer now.

[웃 910]

I disagree - they do have a set of beliefs. They just happened to believe that no God exists. That's the difference between an atheist and an agnostic. There are far more agnostics in this world than actual atheists.

There is really not much difference between atheists and agnostics. Because no matter what nobody is 100% certain, myself included. I guess you could say I am agnostic because I believe it is possible for there to be a God. I am over 95% sure that there isn't according to my analysis but I still believe there is a small possibility. I would have to see or hear from God in person in order to believe it, and I don't think that will EVER happen! And a lot of agnostics are atheists except they say "I don't think there is a God but I'm not 100% sure". So there is a very thin line between the two groups.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What then is the set of beliefs required by someone who believes in the existence of a God?

When and where did I say that believing in the existence of a God requires any set of beliefs? What I said is that the mere belief in a God doesn't make a religion. That stands. By the same token, the mere rejection of the idea that there is a God doesn't make a religion either.

[Fandango 1,440]

There is really not much difference between atheists and agnostics.

Of course there is. I'm not about to go defining each because we all know what each are anyways.

I think what Steven is saying is that athiests' belief in no God is a belief. So therefore, it's a 'religion' of sorts. I can see where he's coming from with that.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

What would that "set" be?

Science has a set of beliefs. Does that make science a religion? Political philosophies embody a set of beliefs. Does that make any political party a religion? Personally, I find them all indistinguishable.

[chri'stina 190]

You think Gary, Stephen (maybe Stephen), Mr. Big Dog, <<<fill in VJ name >>> are running around in their everyday lives making fun of the opposite political party and defending theirs? I highly doubt it. Some VJ members have wrote hundreds of pages over the years critiquing either Dems or Repubs. And I bet in their real lives they might get into 1 or 2 political debates a year, at best.

According to your logic Stephen should be passing out at least 40 left-leaning political articles a day to friends/family/strangers. Because BooYa is saying how bad America is in 90% of his posts he should also be dissing America in 90% of the conversations he engages in in his real life. If you looked at Sofiyya's posts in the past 2 months you would think she's out in the streets talking about her religion and breaking the stereotypes. And yes, according to some of my posts I'd be out and about spreading Atheism.

But fortunately for society your logic is wrong on this case. It doesn't work that way and we aren't "ruining the internet".

If a stranger engaged myself, Stephen, BooYa, Sofiyya with a conversation on the street then we would all come across the same way as we do on VJ (if a stranger discussed America with BooYa in a coffee shop, I'd imagine Boo Ya would express his views but of course in a more friendly way).

Maybe you never heard the saying "2 things you don't discuss: politics and religion". That is absolutely true in real life but not true on the internet. It is precisely what makes this forum entertaining because we discuss these hot button issues. So no, we aren't ruining the internet, we are making it much better.

Yeah right. Your post is full of excuses.

Actually I am friends with Steven and he does post some political stuff on FB like on VJ. I imagine he'd be very similar in real life as he seems on VJ. Sure he is an obvious Democrat and is passionate about his views. But he is a nice guy too. I am not a Democrat and I don't feel like he is mean to me just because of his posts.

Edited November 22, 2010 by chri'stina