I-751 Evidence submitted with form is insufficient

[lopakalolo 1]

I'm on a mission now to have everything I send back - notarized, transcript-ed, and with letterhead attachment from whoever is required to satisfy the USCIS in Vermont.

A concern that I have is our living arrangement in Florida. I know this will probably sound practical to you but not to the USCIS (maybe).

We are living with my daughter and her husband in a big house. We share expenses with them and this helps them with their mortgage and we also split the utilities with them. I'm afraid that this is not going to go over too big with the USCIS unless I can convince them that what we are doing is just the opposite of the kids moving in with the parents that has become an economic reality these days.

Because we are retired, travel and visit a lot throughout the country and elsewhere, this is a good arrangement for us as well as for my daughter and son-in-law. We are out of their hair a lot (ho, ho, ho).

Note: I have read that there is nothing wrong with this living arrangement and it has been accepted by the USCIS. Does anyone know about this for sure?

Because everything is in their names, we do not have anything to show as far as rent, mortgage, or utilities. We even borrow their extra clunker car for getting around locally and rent cars when we travel. We are debt free finally and intend to stay that way.

I was advised by a few people on Visa Journey that I should get a rental agreement from them that are signed by all concerned and receipts, (even post dated ones) for the payments we gave them in cash. This arrangement worked well with us, no problems until the USCIS has to be convinced.

On the economic side - real estate in Florida sucks big time. I have to put that bluntly because it's not just the value of the home prices dropping drastically, but also the threat of hurricanes (Property insurance) and sink holes (also property insurance) that have devalued everything. With that said, we decided that even though we could get a home there by ourselves - cheap, it still would not be a wise decision. We instead have opted for California but we are waiting until the house prices go from insane to realistic before we buy there. It’s like we have to run out and buy a house to satisfy the USCIS.

What I am doing on this second go around is:

Providing (2) or (3) notarized affidavits from friends that have known us since or before our marriage. I provided (4) the first time but they were not notarized and rejected by the USCIS. Even the one from my wife’s sister that was a witness at our marriage and her name appears on our marriage certificate. I thought that was the job of the USCIS to investigate. I also don’t remember anything stating that the affidavits had to be notarized the first time around.

Of course, now they are telling us that we can’t submit anything that was submitted the first time. This means that instead of (4) affidavits, we will now require two more because the (4) are no longer valid.

Note: the first time they wanted the respondent to include (get this) name, address, telephone number, date of birth and social security number. I was embarrassed to ask people for the affidavit and most declined because of all the sensitive personal information that was asked for.

What a treasure trove of information for Identity Thieves (which I have recently been a victim of). What is ironic is that you can go on line, Google a government site regarding Identity Theft and they WARN you to never give out your Social Security number. Here you have the USCIS (another government travesty) asking for it. Does DUH! Register here. Don’t let me get started on the TSA (Sorry - off subject - different blog site).

Receipts - Getting receipts and rental agreement from my daughter and her husband.

Automobile - Explain why we don’t own, want or need a car.

Bank accounts (Transcripts and stamped documents from the issuer).

IRS - ((3) prior years of transcripts ordered from the IRS showing joint filing.

Note: Funny – when I prepared the I-130 packet, I made copies of the first page of each year and they where accepted. I did the same with Vermont and they were rejected. Again, are they not supposed to be investigating? (Different folks – different strokes) and we are supposed to know that - right. Again, another DUH!

Pictures – I’m going to send them so many damn pictures that they will be sick of looking at them.

A will - We contacted a lawyer today and will make up a will to make the USCIS happy. We already have wills drawn up for our children and grandchildren – not good enough for them. Again – “Different strokes for different folks” or is “My way or the highway” more appropriate?

The bottom line is this (I mentioned it in my first post). When I sent in the first I- 751 along with a check for $545.00 to the USCIS Vermont Service Center, they reviewed it, took the money and issued a new letter stating that my wife’s probationary green card would be extended for one year. We also received a notice for her to report to the USCIS Tampa Service Center for a Biometrics Appointment.

(This is when I thought everything was done right)

We then went home and waited to either be called back for the 10 year green card or it would be mailed to us (we didn’t know which – they didn’t bother to tell us) Their motto – keep em guessing

I assume that Tampa sent the Biometric Appointment results back to Vermont because that is where the response came from.

(That’s when the shocker arrived about requiring more information.)

My question is this – If Vermont had all the information (they are now disputing) the first time when they took the money and supposedly reviewed the packet – Why did they not deny what I submitted at that time.

Instead they went ahead and extended the card for one year and ordered the Biometric Appointment.

Like George Bush said: the Right hand (holding up the left) doesn’t know what the Left hand is doing (holding up the right). That’s the government for you.

Hey! If we didn't have government agencies, we wouldn't have humor in the way they move the sheep around – Right?

[milimelo 4,477]

You need to understand how the process goes - you send in the application and it is checked for minimal requirements - form plus check - that's what gets you the NOA1 followed by BIO appt. When the IO is assigned your case THEN they look in detail what you sent in and if it satisfies their requirements - if it does, you move on to the next stage/approval, if they want to see more evidence, you get an RFE.

Your best bet is to provide them with what they want - we never sent Affidavits but we did send 2-3lbs of evidence - bank statements, doctor bills, medical insurance explanations of benefits showing we have co-mingled lives.

Re: your living arrangements - do as was suggested - draw up a rental agreement and then explain the living arrangement in your own words. Your daughter can do the same and notarize the statement.

Re: taxes - when in any doubt, get the transcripts - they're free and USCIS tends to prefer those over copies - hint: get some for when your wife naturalizes - they will ask again for those.

Good luck!

[ManuFred 10]

I understand that USCIS wants some convincing evidence but sometimes it simply doesn't make sense to make certain changes. My wife and I put each other as beneficiaries on retirement accounts as it is easy to do and doesn't take much time but try putting someone on an existing mortgage in this economy. That's a different story.

In our case we tried to add my name to my wifes condo she bought 3 years back. The mortgage broker goes: "Sure we can add your husband if you 1) refinance the home and pay closing costs for $1000+ dollars and 2) pay off some off your existing loan to (again) meet the 20% down payment" At purchase my wife put in 20% but the condo dropped at least 30k in value over the last few years. Adding my name to the mortgage would cost us freaking 20+k. Do you mind USCIS we didn't through with this. We love each other very much but we're not stupid.

[Jupiter07 12]

What I am doing on this second go around is:

Providing (2) or (3) notarized affidavits from friends that have known us since or before our marriage. I provided (4) the first time but they were not notarized and rejected by the USCIS. Even the one from my wife’s sister that was a witness at our marriage and her name appears on our marriage certificate. I thought that was the job of the USCIS to investigate. I also don’t remember anything stating that the affidavits had to be notarized the first time around.

What a treasure trove of information for Identity Thieves (which I have recently been a victim of). What is ironic is that you can go on line, Google a government site regarding Identity Theft and they WARN you to never give out your Social Security number. Here you have the USCIS (another government travesty) asking for it. Does DUH! Register here. Don’t let me get started on the TSA (Sorry - off subject - different blog site).

Note on Form 751 instructions, USCIS does NOT ask for SS number of the person writing the affidavit. All they ask for is "full name and address, date & place of birth, r/ship to you/spouse, full info. and complete details of how the person acquired his/her knowledge.

Personal experience: When I did my AOS, I didn't have much to submit. Pretty much had only bank statements, one year IRS transcripts, some pix, and flight itineraries. I wasn't married long when I filed for AOS, even though I had known my husband for quite some time. I hadn't kept much of anything when I dated my husband because I didn't think we would end up getting married. I always thought I'd marry someone else (a more handsome person . Until I realized that am better off marrying a good-hearted person than a handsome one

Anyway, I wasn't going to rely on the same type & amount of evidence that got me through AOS to get me through ROC. I have submitted more in quality and quantity. Currently sitting pretty to see what gives. They just cashed my check. Reminds me I need to update my signature.

Good Luck this time round, the 2nd time IS the charm. Bombard them with all you can.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Jupiter07

[ManuFred 10]

Note on Form 751 instructions, USCIS does NOT ask for SS number of the person writing the affidavit. All they ask for is "full name and address, date & place of birth, r/ship to you/spouse, full info. and complete details of how the person acquired his/her knowledge.

Personal experience: When I did my AOS, I didn't have much to submit. Pretty much had only bank statements, one year IRS transcripts, some pix, and flight itineraries. I wasn't married long when I filed for AOS, even though I had known my husband for quite some time. I hadn't kept much of anything when I dated my husband because I didn't think we would end up getting married. I always thought I'd marry someone else (a more handsome person . Until I realized that am better off marrying a good-hearted person than a handsome one

Anyway, I wasn't going to rely on the same type & amount of evidence that got me through AOS to get me through ROC. I have submitted more in quality and quantity. Currently sitting pretty to see what gives. They just cashed my check. Reminds me I need to update my signature.

Good Luck this time round, the 2nd time IS the charm. Bombard them with all you can.

Point is that USCIS doesn't seem to take much effort into researching the information you submit. It looks like they run your profile (such as SSN) by the FBI and that's it. The paperwork you submit appears only to be valuable if some goverment official has signed for it. I don't mind this approach but why not mentioning this in the instructions. If you want transcripts of joint tax returns, ask for them. If you want notarized affidavits, ask for them to be notarized. It's not a big deal to get these things done but asking for it at least saves time that goes into fixing an RFE. Bloody inefficient I would say.

[Jupiter07 12]

Point is that USCIS doesn't seem to take much effort into researching the information you submit. It looks like they run your profile (such as SSN) by the FBI and that's it. The paperwork you submit appears only to be valuable if some goverment official has signed for it. I don't mind this approach but why not mentioning this in the instructions. If you want transcripts of joint tax returns, ask for them. If you want notarized affidavits, ask for them to be notarized. It's not a big deal to get these things done but asking for it at least saves time that goes into fixing an RFE. Bloody inefficient I would say.

I agree with you. They should say "transcripts of tax returns" if they want transcripts. Actually in my AOS I didn't submit transcripts. I submitted a copy of my 1040. I used transcripts for ROC. My thinking is that if they have something else or other things, of equal weight, that can help make your case, then they will accept the un-notarized affidavits or simply copies of your tax returns.

If the situation is like it is in this thread, that you don't have this because you live with this person blah blah - which to me I can understand how that can be true - then in such a situation - you will at least have to notarize things & submit govt-issued ones. I understand your situation, but I also understand how the person handling your case came to the decision of issuing and RFE.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

USCIS is under no obligation to 'investigate' anything other than a security background or immigration fraud. It is your responsibility to provide them with enough evidence that covers the complete time of your marriage - not just the time when you are applying to remove conditions - that they don't need to do any investigation to determine the validity of your relationship.

You have a good start on the additional evidence that is required. You say that you share expenses with your daughter - how do you pay them? In cash? by cheque? Do you have both names written on your cheques? Do both of you write cheques on the same chequing account? If so, you can provide cancelled cheques for things like repair bills or purchases written by both of you on the same account. On your joint credit card statements and bank account statements, include at least one full copy of every page in the statement for each quarter of each year you have been married and highlight items which can be used to show joint financial involvement (ie car rentals for travel, health insurance or medical bills, etc.). Try to use statements that show both of you making charges with the credit card account on the same statement. If you have medical or dental bills covered under the same insurance and/or copays from the same account, highlight those amounts and include those receipts as well. Include copies of the documents where you have named each other the beneficiary of your retirement plans/funds. Do you rent a safety deposit box together? If so, include that and if no, there is something else that you can do for evidence. If you don't want to have a contract written up by your daughter regarding your living arrangements, you definitely need to have your daughter write up some sort of a sworn affidavit verifying that you and your wife live with them in exchange for 50% of expenses - or whatever the arrangement is - and and whatever the terms are of the arrangement. What about cell phones? Are you on a family plan or have a plan with the two of you named or included? Since you travel a lot you can show this by providing copies of car rental receipts, hotel receipts and gas receipts, preferably signed by both of you. You want to show how you have co-mingled your liabilities and your assets. Photos don't really prove much unless you can include photos of both of you taken at places where you have hotel receipts, gas receipts and car rental/travel receipts to tie together with them - and definitely paper-clip receipts like that to the photos involved.

The thing ito remember when dealing with USCIS is that they set the rules and they call the shots. Each and every application must stand on its own instead of relying on what was included with a previous application. You are verifying that the relationship has continued since the last submission of documents and the documents provide the evidence. Think of them as a judge willing to find you guilty and it is your job to prove your innocence. That is the attention to detail that you should try to achieve.

Good luck. I hope you get a quick approval after the re-sumission.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Kathryn41