Woman: TSA agent patted my genitals

[spookyturtle 9,466]

the type of search a friend or relative undergos to visit a prisoner is NOT anything like what we go through in airport security!!! there are actually RULES the officers MUST abide by and they do that. They show the friends and family respect (most do) and if they do not there is an IMMEDIATE course of action you can take! Here are some of those rules:

during the 'pat down' an officer cannot put their fingers/hands or anything else inside the clothing of the visitor (they must stay on outside of clothing)

take off belt and all metal objects, walk thru scanner

if your hair is up it must come loose and you shake it (done in private with a female guard)

you open your mouth and they shine a light inside, NEVER are they to put a finger or anything else inside your mouth (not even the light!)

take off shoes and they check those by hand (not with a scanner, they run their hands inside them and visually check them)

their bare hands must never come into contact with your bare skin, EVER

when they do a "pat down" they run the BACKSIDE of their hand over you, NOT their palm and fingers

they do not touch your private areas

NEVER DO THEY REPEATEDLY GO UNDER YOUR BREASTS AND SQUEEZE THEM WHILE LEERING IN YOUR FACE!

Again, I am not disagreeing that some of these TSA searches are invasive, but you make a rather bold, unsupported claim concerning prisons. Especially the last sentence above. Claiming that this never takes place during a search of a prison visit is complete speculation on your part. I will be bold enough to state that I doubt that you have been to the majority of the prisons in the US. Perhaps the one you went to operated as you have stated above. Yes, they have rules as does the TSA and most employees follow those rules. And every passenger that has been thru a pat down hasn't complained about it. There are good employees and bad one in every profession.

Personally knowing a few people who work for the Department of Corrections I can also state that a visitor to a prison can be flagged for a strip search if there is suspicion of something being smuggled inside. If that happens, you either comply or you don't get to visit. Granted, we are talking about someone who is suspected of smuggling and not every single visitor.

Perhaps we'll soon see some modification of the TSA methods if more complaints are filed and more people avoid air travel. It would be great if there was a secure method that was not so personally invasive.

[Boiler 45,913]

Most of what is done by the TSA is for show, not for security.

It is theater provided by the US Government to make people feel safer.

Much more could be done with the resources available, but many have political negatives.

[nab 74]

Again, I am not disagreeing that some of these TSA searches are invasive, but you make a rather bold, unsupported WRONG - rules are written claim concerning prisons. Especially the last sentence above. Claiming that this never takes place during a search of a prison visit is complete speculation on your part. I will be bold enough to state that I doubt that you have been to the majority of the prisons in the US. Perhaps the one you went to operated as you have stated above. Yes, they have rules as does the TSA and most employees follow those rules. And every passenger that has been thru a pat down hasn't complained about it. There are good employees and bad one in every profession.

Personally knowing a few people who work for the Department of Corrections I can also state that a visitor to a prison can be flagged for a strip search if there is suspicion of something being smuggled inside. If that happens, you either comply or you don't get to visit. Granted, we are talking about someone who is suspected of smuggling and not every single visitor.

Perhaps we'll soon see some modification of the TSA methods if more complaints are filed and more people avoid air travel. It would be great if there was a secure method that was not so personally invasive.

If you EVER go to ANY prison and a guard even begins to treat you like that you should STOP that guard immediately, call for more guards and request the warden IMMEDIATELY. Weekends an assistant warden is usually on duty but has same power to stop any wrong-doing!

i also know this because a guard once snapped my underwear band and when i asked her why she did that she said "just checking to see if you were wearing underwear"

#1 she reached into the waistband of my pants to do that

#2 if i had not been underpants it would have been no business of hers

i immediately stopped the search, called for another guard and asked for asst warden. she was written up for it but stayed on duty. i told the warden i did not feel violated. she was not taunting me, she did not try to sexually assault me. she was just overstepping her power because she thought she could, one of those i'll push you to see if you'll push me back scenarios... damn straight i will push back. there was never any hard feelings on my part or hers (as far as i knew) but i knew my rights anad she knew the rules. at times the guards like to show people "who's boss" but with prison guards they forget we friends/family are not prisoners

i'm not going to make a mess of soemthing like that but i expect that sort of behaviour held in check and i did send out a wire on the grapevine so she didnt try it with others - which she DID and they promptly did same (i think 3x total counting me) so she almost lost cushy duty playing that because they couldnt pretend it was first time when we knew about her doing it to each other - that's ANOTHER issue with TSA: who will track the repeat offenders who assault travelers???

the difference between prisons and travelers? families/friends of prisoners have stood up for their rights when bullied and prisons tried humiliating them with those kinds of searches. travelers have been sheep, blindly giving away our rights when we have done nothing wrong! now travelers are submitting to these searches just to go visit relatives in other states/countries or for work and no crime has even been committed by the traveler or the person they are visiting. sad isnt it?

in your "strip search" scenario

#1 i have never not once known anyone even through rumors to have ever had that done

#2 if it were done, they have the option of rejecting the search and leaving (TSA does NOT give that option, they give you threat of fines and imprisonment if you move, call to anyone, etc)

Most of what is done by the TSA is for show, not for security.

It is theater provided by the US Government to make people feel safer.

Much more could be done with the resources available, but many have political negatives.

i agree that it is for show and not security. if you only knew.

it may be for the illusion of 'safety' but there is also another factor, a psychological 'helpless' feeling given to people ... you hear it in people's voices saying "but what else can we do?" so they just keep submitting. the more beat down you can get the people the more you can control them. same as an abuser does to a victim. it's time for the people to take back their power and say NO to this garbage and stop being beaten down.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

You probably would not know anyone who was strip searched visiting at a prison unless they were highly suspected of trying to sneak in something prohibited. What you experienced on your visits and what correction officers have experienced over their careers may be a bit different.

Rules are written for just about everything, but we all know that they are not always followed now don't we? Do you honestly believe that correction officers are a cut above everyone? Do police officers always follow the written rules in every scenario? How about doctors? Politicians? Government officials? There are rules for all of these people too. Remember Richard Nixon? One would have to be rather naive to actually believe that all employees follow all the rules all of the time. Be realistic, that's not how it goes in the real world even though we all wish it would.

[nab 74]

You probably would not know anyone who was strip searched visiting at a prison unless they were highly suspected of trying to sneak in something prohibited. What you experienced on your visits and what correction officers have experienced over their careers may be a bit different.

Rules are written for just about everything, but we all know that they are not always followed now don't we? Do you honestly believe that correction officers are a cut above everyone? Do police officers always follow the written rules in every scenario? How about doctors? Politicians? Government officials? There are rules for all of these people too. Remember Richard Nixon? One would have to be rather naive to actually believe that all employees follow all the rules all of the time. Be realistic, that's not how it goes in the real world even though we all wish it would.

imagine that. so because some will break rules we should just roll over and let them do anything they choose?

when you have the power to make sure you do not lose your rights you have the obligation to defend those rights IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THEM.

unlike some travelers, i would like to keep my modesty.

Edited November 20, 2010 by nab

[spookyturtle 9,466]

imagine that. so because some will break rules we should just roll over and let them do anything they choose?

when you have the power to make sure you do not lose your rights you have the obligation to defend those rights IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THEM.

unlike some travelers, i would like to keep my modesty.

I'm not suggesting just rolling over. I just pointed out that your prison analogy really was no different than TSA or anyone else. You stated that the correction officers followed the rules, I know otherwise. Nobody has stated that all TSA employees are breaking the rules, what most are upset about are the rules themselves, the touching of intimate body areas. If I felt that strongly against it, I wouldn't get on the plane and let them arrest me for changing my mind. Has anyone done this yet, decided they didn't want the pat down and peacefully abandon the flight? If so, what happened?

[mawilson 2,133]

We are not prisoners. We haven't done anything wrong. I'd rather be blown up by a terrorist than lose my dignity.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

We are not prisoners. We haven't done anything wrong. I'd rather be blown up by a terrorist than lose my dignity.

We shouldn't be treated as prisoners, yet in many ways we are. We are prisoners of the system. In every other first world country.........................................

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

You know, I'm usually not a big fan of the Israelis, but one thing I have to hand them: they know how to get a job done without f*cking with their fellow citizens. We are funding Israel, we have Israelis in the US Government, why don't we adopt something they really know a lot about: flight safety?

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother

[slim 1,530]

obviously had their been security such as TSA that wouldn't have happened.

Just like the twin towers and pentagon thing never happened?

You're basically saying since one person got decapitated ONE TIME on a transportation network that has ZERO security it's not as safe as a transportation system that has OVERKILL security yet still had over 3,000 people killed in one day because of their "whoops." By the way, the article you posted was from Canada - where we all know there's a MUCH HIGHER decapitation rate on Greyhound than here in the US.

Most of what is done by the TSA is for show, not for security.

It is theater provided by the US Government to make people feel safer.

Much more could be done with the resources available, but many have political negatives.

Exactly why we haven't cleaned up innercities yet. "Well, we throw a lot of money at it and it's OK. Right?"

[Amby 490]

I'm not really bothered by the scanners or the pat downs because the people are just doing their job. I think some people are seriously overreacting when it comes to the pat downs, but I also think this new system isn't the answer to making our skies safer.

I understand some people are really uncomfortable with people touching them but I had a pat down and I didn't think it the person was going too far. Yes she did pat my vadge and cup my breasts but I didn't feel like it was weird or sexual.

Part of me feels like people need to chill the f$@& out about "don't touch my junk" and then the other part thinks it's a total invasion and tsa needs to get a damn brain and realize this is not going to stop people.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I'm not really bothered by the scanners or the pat downs because the people are just doing their job. I think some people are seriously overreacting when it comes to the pat downs, but I also think this new system isn't the answer to making our skies safer.

I understand some people are really uncomfortable with people touching them but I had a pat down and I didn't think it the person was going too far. Yes she did pat my vadge and cup my breasts but I didn't feel like it was weird or sexual.

Part of me feels like people need to chill the f$@& out about "don't touch my junk" and then the other part thinks it's a total invasion and tsa needs to get a damn brain and realize this is not going to stop people.

Maybe you're bi-curious?

[Amby 490]

Maybe you're bi-curious?

[nab 74]

I'm not suggesting just rolling over. I just pointed out that your prison analogy really was no different than TSA or anyone else. You stated that the correction officers followed the rules, I know otherwise. Nobody has stated that all TSA employees are breaking the rules, what most are upset about are the rules themselves, the touching of intimate body areas. If I felt that strongly against it, I wouldn't get on the plane and let them arrest me for changing my mind. Has anyone done this yet, decided they didn't want the pat down and peacefully abandon the flight? If so, what happened?

the rules ARE what is at issue and HOW they are being enforced. they do NOT allow you to leave the "security area", this is another issue. you cannot refuse search, they threaten you with 10k fine or imprisonment... they can actually now (by the rules) fine you is it 11 or 12k? but the standard threat is 10k

We are not prisoners. We haven't done anything wrong. I'd rather be blown up by a terrorist than lose my dignity.

+1

sick of losing my freedoms because another fat cat wants his brother in law or some relative to make a buck!

We shouldn't be treated as prisoners, yet in many ways we are. We are prisoners of the system. In every other first world country.........................................

THAT mentality will keep you are prisoner... fight back!

I'm not really bothered by the scanners or the pat downs because the people are just doing their job. I think some people are seriously overreacting when it comes to the pat downs, but I also think this new system isn't the answer to making our skies safer.

I understand some people are really uncomfortable with people touching them but I had a pat down and I didn't think it the person was going too far. Yes she did pat my vadge and cup my breasts but I didn't feel like it was weird or sexual.

Part of me feels like people need to chill the f$@& out about "don't touch my junk" and then the other part thinks it's a total invasion and tsa needs to get a damn brain and realize this is not going to stop people.

how often do you fly Amby? and is that per week/month/year?

i'll respond to rest of your post when i see that response.

Edited November 21, 2010 by nab

[Amby 490]

how often do you fly Amby? and is that per week/month/year?

i'll respond to rest of your post when i see that response.

I usually fly a few times each month