Which major religion is peaceful and incapable of violence?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Capitulation is a really interesting word that you've used here. Do you think looking at and treating others in an adversarial fashion is going to help you reach your end-goal of 'enlightenment'? I don't expect you to 'bow' to anyone...say your peace! However, as an intelligent adult, you should realize that it's a simple fact that you aren't going to change everyone's opinion, That's not justification on my part, it's common sense. But this whole 'evil mitigation' tactic you're using is actually working against you. You're making it worse, afaic. (btw, it's ironic you accuse me of justification, but you are blind to your own)

Believe that or not, but that's honestly my opinion.

Do you really think I'm out to change the opinions of our knuckle dragging creaton posters? No wonder you're being so self-righteous and wrong.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Sofiyya

[^_^ 5,021]

If non-Muslims were as interested in the years of numerous Muslim denunciations of terrorism as they are in patting themselves on the back over their perceived superiority, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Practicing and nonpracticing Catholics have pretty much taken the lead in the fight against pedophilia in the Catholic church. The same is simply not true for Muslims and terrorism.

[Jenn! 918]

Practicing and nonpracticing Catholics have pretty much taken the lead in the fight against pedophilia in the Catholic church. The same is simply not true for Muslims and terrorism.

I don't think that Catholics really have to fear the retaliation of pedophilic priests.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I find it deplorable what those priests have done and find it totally unacceptable. I won't sit here and muse how 'years ago, in X time period, it was acceptable to do this that and the other' nor will I say 'hey well John Wayne Gacy was worse than those priests'. It's terrible, deplorable, absolutely horrifying. Anyone with half a brain would agree. *shrug*

so it's all non-Muslims, eh? No surrender!!! No capitulation to the enemy!

You don't think you're a basher, but you definitely are.

[Fandango 1,439]

Interesting that you come to my thread to accuse me of gaming and baiting, and advise me to capitulate to Muslim bashers, yet you never denounce the Muslim baiters on their threads. Good Catholic girl, you are.

Nice bait, btw. Noted, but quickly disregarded. If someone said something similar to you, you'd go off on one. But I'm smart enough to not be controlled by your baiting, so try harder next time, or actually try to have a rational discussion without hurling the personal insults around. Do you see me personally name calling or insulting you? While you may not agree with my opinion, it is entirely respectful, and I would hope that you'd be adult enough to apologize for this uncalled for attempt above, and return the respect you've been shown here.

Do you really think I'm out to change the opinions of our knuckle dragging creaton posters? No wonder you're being so self-righteous and wrong.

Ok, so what is your motivation here? What are you attempting to accomplish?

[^_^ 5,021]

I don't think that Catholics really have to fear the retaliation of pedophilic priests.

Are you saying the Vatican has taken this grassroots effort by Catholics lying down? Because you know, they haven't.

But yes, if your point is that the Catholic church isn't about to go decapitate someone over this, you're right.

[Fandango 1,439]

You don't think you're a basher, but you definitely are.

You're the one who used 'capitulation' and the term 'perceived superiority' As I keep saying, you're doing yourself more harm than good.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Lisa C

[nab 74]

responses inline because there are so many things to respond to!

Well if I put myself in her shoes, I'd just continue to do that, and then leave it be. You're not going to change anyone's opinion who's not open to hearing it, agreed, there are some on here that are so ingrained with a certain mindset/bigotry that only God will bring them around so what's the point of the new 'Extremists: less violent than Nazis!' campaign? agreed, none of it is acceptable I think in trying to justify it as 'not as bad as ....' she actually appears to be owning some of it as acceptable, which I would hope is actually counter productive to her efforts, and not how she really feels.

Note: I say extremists, not Muslims. tell that to bill o'reily there are extremists in many religions but that's conveniently forgotten when media only uses it in their news reports for every muslim. the word (as well as terrorists) has become synonomous in people's minds with muslim because of media... i have never once in all the news reports of serial killers, mass shootings, kidnapings, robberies, etc ever once heard "the christian man..." so first place to changing the mindset is media. I do acknowledge the difference. If someone else doesn't, there's only so much you can do. *shrug*

Sofiyya - I didn't name any religion because I'm not playing your game. This thread is antagonistic at best, agreed and only intended to start some whole 'this religion is worse than my religion' i'm curious that as a muslim why you are not more interested in sharing the word of islam rather than starting these religious "debates" (fights/arguments that only promote bad feelings IMO!) debate, which I'm not interested in getting into. There has been a history of violence in pretty much all groups' histories...how that is germane to modern day, and whether it's acceptable now to anyone is a whole different story.

Let me add this: I feel it's a perfect example. When I first came to VJ, I was appalled by the men who needed to bash American women as not having 'values' as means to justify their choices in finding love overseas. It was insulting, and for a very long time, I would engage in a conversation how there WERE US women who did value family life, etc....but after a while, it became the same old merry go round, with each side just repeating themselves. After a while, I realized I wasn't going to change anyone's opinion, so my new attitude was 'fuque em' because I wasn't going to change anyone's opinion, so I just quit wasting my time. I made the arguments for me and my US sisters, so my conscience was fine that I did speak up and defend 'us' as a whole, but at the end of the day, it's just a message board, and if someone is so intent on keeping his opinion steadfast without listening to logic, why waste time banging my head against a wall?

on the values/differences thing oh that is priceless... if you are traveled you will know what i mean! actually there are some incredibly wonderful men (and women) on VJ, but i also found a "welcoming committee" that contained some hmmm how shall we say? "some doozies" as we like to say down south

my husband is just like the kind of man i would have found down home, definitely NOT the kind of man i would have expected to come out of pakistan... he also was surprised at my upbringing and we became fast friends. never in a million years did we realize that later we would find ourselves in love but it just kind of snuck up on us. so definitely people cannot label a person as having values or not just because of the country they originate ... eeeek! if that were the case those guys who bashed you would not have a leg to stand on, how many unwed mothers come out of those countries!

[Jenn! 918]

Are you saying the Vatican has taken this grassroots effort by Catholics lying down? Because you know, they haven't.

But yes, if your point is that the Catholic church isn't about to go decapitate someone over this, you're right.

I don't know enough about the movement that you're talking about.

What I'm saying is that most Muslims are as afraid of terrorists as non-Muslims are. It's easy for a non-Muslim to denounce terrorism since we are already on the sh!t list. For a Muslim, on the other hand, they would be seen as a traitor to their faith (from the perspective of a terrorist).

[SMOKE 1,426]

I don't think that Catholics really have to fear the retaliation of pedophilic priests.

they don't really have to fear a baptist suicide bombing their church either

[^_^ 5,021]

What I'm saying is that most Muslims are as afraid of terrorists as non-Muslims are. It's easy for a non-Muslim to denounce terrorism since we are already on the sh!t list. For a Muslim, on the other hand, they would be seen as a traitor to their faith (from the perspective of a terrorist).

Terrorists are a small minority of Muslims. Non-terrorist Muslims (which is to say, the vast majority of Muslims) control the governments and armed forces of most major Muslim-majority nations. And they are afraid of the power of terrorists? I don't buy it. I think there's a different driver here. If the governments of Pakistan and Iran and Saudi Arabia and Syria and Egypt and Morocco and Libya (etc.) decided that they would eliminate terrorism, it would be done yesterday.

[Jenn! 918]

they don't really have to fear a baptist suicide bombing their church either

Yes, this is my point. It's harder to speak out against something if you fear retaliation.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Nice bait, btw. Noted, but quickly disregarded. If someone said something similar to you, you'd go off on one. But I'm smart enough to not be controlled by your baiting, so try harder next time, or actually try to have a rational discussion without hurling the personal insults around. Do you see me personally name calling or insulting you? While you may not agree with my opinion, it is entirely respectful, and I would hope that you'd be adult enough to apologize for this uncalled for attempt above, and return the respect you've been shown here.

Ok, so what is your motivation here? What are you attempting to accomplish?

Noted and quickly disregarded because you're not here for a give and take. You just want me to agree to do as you advise to appease loser bashers. Not interested.

[Jenn! 918]

Terrorists are a small minority of Muslims. Non-terrorist Muslims (which is to say, the vast majority of Muslims) control the governments and armed forces of most major Muslim-majority nations. And they are afraid of the power of terrorists? I don't buy it. I think there's a different driver here. If the governments of Pakistan and Iran and Saudi Arabia and Syria and Egypt and Morocco and Libya (etc.) decided that they would eliminate terrorism, it would be done yesterday.

Of course. To me that's all the more evidence that terrorism is political not religious. I don't think anyone is naive enough to think that terrorism doesn't have government support.

People get upset about Youssef Islam (that's Joe Muslim, not Cat Stevens) not speaking out more about terrorism when that's not the problem - I hear him denounce terrorism all the time. It's that there aren't enough prominent Muslims that denounce terrorism because they're all wrapped up in it politically. And how is that Youssef Islam's fault?

[^_^ 5,021]

Of course. To me that's all the more evidence that terrorism is political not religious. I don't think anyone is naive enough to think that terrorism doesn't have government support.

People get upset about Youssef Islam (that's Joe Muslim, not Cat Stevens) not speaking out more about terrorism when that's not the problem - I hear him denounce terrorism all the time. It's that there aren't enough prominent Muslims that denounce terrorism because they're all wrapped up in it politically. And how is that Youssef Islam's fault?

Sure, Yusuf may denounce terrorism in theory but I do remember the Yusuf's I know mumbling about why 9/11 "happened for a reason" on 9/12. It's a mealy mouthed denunciation, at best. They decry the killing of innocents and then go on to say how bad the West is and how we kinda sorta deserve it - but too bad about those kids.