Which major religion is peaceful and incapable of violence?

[nab 74]

Bringing depth to the discourse, as usual.

in truth Sofiyya what have YOU brought except to ask a baiting question then sit back, sniff, and throw away any of the answers without any input of your own? come on, come on, let's hear the grand answer to your question....

[Sofiyya 1,687]

in truth Sofiyya what have YOU brought except to ask a baiting question then sit back, sniff, and throw away any of the answers without any input of your own? come on, come on, let's hear the grand answer to your question....

What makes this a baiting question? Who's being baited? If there is no answer because no major religion is peaceful, why is that somehow my fault for raising the subject? And, you may be frustrated because there has been no definitive answer, but why should that mean I knew the answer all along? Don't be so cynical.

[Fandango 1,439]

You know, instead of you trying to justify one evil with a another, like 'hey, Muslims are not as bad as Nazis' as you said in another thread...how bout just denouncing whichever participants in your religion bastardize it for you? I can proudly say I am a Catholic, yet those who invoke Catholicism to use it to their benefit in a way to hurt others...I wouldn't sit here and defend them. I'd say 'they're crazy, not true Catholics, this is not what my beliefs are about.' But instead, you come across like a sympathizer, and a justifier of these acts, putting them on some sliding scale as if to say 'hey, compared to such and such, they're not that bad' It's actually people like you who give your religion the worst name...my opinion is that those who feel Islam is a religion of violence do so because they see these heinous acts committed by fanatics, then 'normal' Muslims like you take the stance of 'hey, they're not as bad as Nazis'

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You know, instead of you trying to justify one evil with a another, like 'hey, Muslims are not as bad as Nazis' as you said in another thread...how bout just denouncing whichever participants in your religion bastardize it for you? I can proudly say I am a Catholic, yet those who invoke Catholicism to use it to their benefit in a way to hurt others...I wouldn't sit here and defend them. I'd say 'they're crazy, not true Catholics, this is not what my beliefs are about.' But instead, you come across like a sympathizer, and a justifier of these acts, putting them on some sliding scale as if to say 'hey, compared to such and such, they're not that bad' It's actually people like you who give your religion the worst name...my opinion is that those who feel Islam is a religion of violence do so because they see these heinous acts committed by fanatics, then 'normal' Muslims like you take the stance of 'hey, they're not as bad as Nazis'

Ok, you aren't nominating Christianity either. Is anyone?

[Jenn! 918]

I'd say 'they're crazy, not true Catholics, this is not what my beliefs are about.'

She's actually said that in the past until she's blue in the face, but nobody seemed interested. She's since moved on to other types of arguments, which no one wants to hear either. I see a pattern.

As for the original question, UUs seem pretty peaceful. If I were to be part of any religion, that would be the one. While it has its roots in Christianity - there are followers across the entire religious spectrum.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

She's actually said that in the past until she's blue in the face, but nobody seemed interested. She's since moved on to other types of arguments, which no one wants to hear either. I see a pattern.

As for the original question, UUs seem pretty peaceful. If I were to be part of any religion, that would be the one. While it has its roots in Christianity - there are followers across the entire religious spectrum.

Thanks, Jenn. When I say Muslims who commit violence and cruelty in the name of Islam aren't true to the faith, I am mocked by the insta-scholars here. They even try to convince me that Islam is whatever some malcontent, Muslim and non-Muslim, say it is. If I disagree, I'm mocked. Of course, the only thing they demand is that I denounce and apologize, that's why they can't find anything good about Muslims or Islam, and post repeated negativity. If anyone is baiting, it's not I.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Thanks, Jenn. When I say Muslims who commit violence and cruelty in the name of Islam aren't true to the faith, I am mocked by the insta-scholars here. They even try to convince me that Islam is whatever some malcontent, Muslim and non-Muslim, say it is. If I disagree, I'm mocked. Of course, the only thing they demand is that I denounce and apologize, that's why they can't find anything good about Muslims or Islam, and post repeated negativity. If anyone is baiting, it's not I.

Actually when you make a statement like this I agree with you. But I don't give the easy out that Muslims behaving badly are not Muslim any more than Christians behaving badly aren't Christian. There are cultural variables for all religious adherents which effect behavior, and differences in belief in outwardly the same religion.

[Fandango 1,439]

She's actually said that in the past until she's blue in the face, but nobody seemed interested. She's since moved on to other types of arguments, which no one wants to hear either. I see a pattern.

As for the original question, UUs seem pretty peaceful. If I were to be part of any religion, that would be the one. While it has its roots in Christianity - there are followers across the entire religious spectrum.

Well if I put myself in her shoes, I'd just continue to do that, and then leave it be. You're not going to change anyone's opinion who's not open to hearing it, so what's the point of the new 'Extremists: less violent than Nazis!' campaign? I think in trying to justify it as 'not as bad as ....' she actually appears to be owning some of it as acceptable, which I would hope is actually counter productive to her efforts, and not how she really feels.

Note: I say extremists, not Muslims. I do acknowledge the difference. If someone else doesn't, there's only so much you can do. *shrug*

Sofiyya - I didn't name any religion because I'm not playing your game. This thread is antagonistic at best, and only intended to start some whole 'this religion is worse than my religion' debate, which I'm not interested in getting into. There has been a history of violence in pretty much all groups' histories...how that is germane to modern day, and whether it's acceptable now to anyone is a whole different story.

Let me add this: I feel it's a perfect example. When I first came to VJ, I was appalled by the men who needed to bash American women as not having 'values' as means to justify their choices in finding love overseas. It was insulting, and for a very long time, I would engage in a conversation how there WERE US women who did value family life, etc....but after a while, it became the same old merry go round, with each side just repeating themselves. After a while, I realized I wasn't going to change anyone's opinion, so my new attitude was 'fuque em' because I wasn't going to change anyone's opinion, so I just quit wasting my time. I made the arguments for me and my US sisters, so my conscience was fine that I did speak up and defend 'us' as a whole, but at the end of the day, it's just a message board, and if someone is so intent on keeping his opinion steadfast without listening to logic, why waste time banging my head against a wall?

Edited November 19, 2010 by Lisa C

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Interesting that you come to my thread to accuse me of gaming and baiting, and advise me to capitulate to Muslim bashers, yet you never denounce the Muslim baiters on their threads. Good Catholic girl, you are.

Well if I put myself in her shoes, I'd just continue to do that, and then leave it be. You're not going to change anyone's opinion who's not open to hearing it, so what's the point of the new 'Extremists: less violent than Nazis!' campaign? I think in trying to justify it as 'not as bad as ....' she actually appears to be owning some of it as acceptable, which I would hope is actually counter productive to her efforts, and not how she really feels.

Note: I say extremists, not Muslims. I do acknowledge the difference. If someone else doesn't, there's only so much you can do. *shrug*

Sofiyya - I didn't name any religion because I'm not playing your game. This thread is antagonistic at best, and only intended to start some whole 'this religion is worse than my religion' debate, which I'm not interested in getting into. There has been a history of violence in pretty much all groups' histories...how that is germane to modern day, and whether it's acceptable now to anyone is a whole different story.

Let me add this: I feel it's a perfect example. When I first came to VJ, I was appalled by the men who needed to bash American women as not having 'values' as means to justify their choices in finding love overseas. It was insulting, and for a very long time, I would engage in a conversation how there WERE US women who did value family life, etc....but after a while, it became the same old merry go round, with each side just repeating themselves. After a while, I realized I wasn't going to change anyone's opinion, so my new attitude was 'fuque em' because I wasn't going to change anyone's opinion, so I just quit wasting my time. I made the arguments for me and my US sisters, so my conscience was fine that I did speak up and defend 'us' as a whole, but at the end of the day, it's just a message board, and if someone is so intent on keeping his opinion steadfast without listening to logic, why waste time banging my head against a wall?

[Fandango 1,439]

Interesting that you come to my thread to accuse me of gaming and baiting, and advise me to capitulate to Muslim bashers, yet you never denounce the Muslim baiters on their threads. Good Catholic girl, you are.

Well let's see, one would probably be able to infer by my comparisons and pretty much by the overall message of my post that I don't agree with those who feel that Islam is an across the board religion of violence. I think I also made my opinion on Islam crystal clear as well. What more needs to be said about that?

You're baiting in this thread...I choose to not rise to the bait. That's how I'm suggesting you deal with it. I realize it's frustrating, but what have you been trying to accomplish all these years? Do you think you're going to singlehandedly change opinion for those who aren't listening? It's obvious you're not going to do that. You are smart enough to realize that, yes?

In fact, I'd dare say that your current approach is actually solidifying anti-Muslim opinions for some.

I don't personally care what you do...fill your boots either way. But I will comment on it when I feel like it.

There are people on this thread, including yourself, who have bashed Christianity. Others have bashed organized religion as a whole. While it offends me, what can I do about it? Nothing. So instead of getting into a sh!t fling, I choose to occasionally comment, but otherwise, not engage in a religious discussion with those whom I feel will never be open to seeing a different point of view. In other words, I pick and choose my battles, and I try to prevent myself from rising to some bait on a mb.

I certainly wouldn't justify some crazy Christian's actions of bombing an abortion clinic by bringing up ancient history of other, more deplorable heinous acts as if some how it mitigates what was done. I would never put myself in a stance to defend the likes of WBC, who call themselves Christians, but to me are nothing but hate and fear mongers. I wouldn't be all 'hey, the Nazis are worse' as if that's somehow relevant, which it's not.

I've been incredibly fair here, imo..I have put myself in your shoes and realize it must be frustrating to hear such negativity about your faith. However, you're doing your faith a huge disservice with your approach lately.

Nice that you didn't respond to any other part of my post, which I think was quite fair. I think the selective silence is very telling. But eh, that's how you roll, so I'm used to it by now.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Lisa C

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I don't bash Christianity. I bash the hypocrisy of Christians. You advise capitulation to people who are so shallow that the views of one Muslim who won't bow down to them can make them haters. You justify that. Need I say more?

[^_^ 5,021]

I can proudly say I am a Catholic, yet those who invoke Catholicism to use it to their benefit in a way to hurt others...I wouldn't sit here and defend them. I'd say 'they're crazy, not true Catholics, this is not what my beliefs are about.'

If Muslims would expend nearly as much energy publicly denouncing terrorism as Catholics do publicly denouncing pedophilia by priests, I daresay we'd not be having this conversation.

[Fandango 1,439]

I don't bash Christianity. I bash the hypocrisy of Christians. You advise capitulation to people who are so shallow that the views of one Muslim who won't bow down to them can make them haters. You justify that. Need I say more?

Capitulation is a really interesting word that you've used here. Do you think looking at and treating others in an adversarial fashion is going to help you reach your end-goal of 'enlightenment'? I don't expect you to 'bow' to anyone...say your peace! However, as an intelligent adult, you should realize that it's a simple fact that you aren't going to change everyone's opinion, That's not justification on my part, it's common sense. But this whole 'evil mitigation' tactic you're using is actually working against you. You're making it worse, afaic. (btw, it's ironic you accuse me of justification, but you are blind to your own)

Believe that or not, but that's honestly my opinion.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

If Muslims would expend nearly as much energy publicly denouncing terrorism as Catholics do publicly denouncing pedophilia by priests, I daresay we'd not be having this conversation.

If non-Muslims were as interested in the years of numerous Muslim denunciations of terrorism as they are in patting themselves on the back over their perceived superiority, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Fandango 1,439]

If Muslims would expend nearly as much energy publicly denouncing terrorism as Catholics do publicly denouncing pedophilia by priests, I daresay we'd not be having this conversation.

I find it deplorable what those priests have done and find it totally unacceptable. I won't sit here and muse how 'years ago, in X time period, it was acceptable to do this that and the other' nor will I say 'hey well John Wayne Gacy was worse than those priests'. It's terrible, deplorable, absolutely horrifying. Anyone with half a brain would agree. *shrug*

If non-Muslims were as interested in the years of numerous Muslim denunciations of terrorism as they are in patting themselves on the back over their perceived superiority, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

so it's all non-Muslims, eh? No surrender!!! No capitulation to the enemy!