Condo we are renting got foreclosed!

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

I'm not trying to pick on you. Sorry if you feel that way, it wasn't meant to be a personal attack upon you. Everyone who has told this person not to pay the rent is wrong. I am simply saying what I know to be a fact. I have been in the Real Estate business for almost 30 years. The advise to stop paying rent is what most people think is the fair thing to do. But is not the legal thing to do. Let's avoid giving people advise based upon what we think is "street justice".

The last thing a person wants is an eviction on a credit report and non payment of rent is a sure fire way of achieving that. Then try to lease a new place to live.

I do have one question however: If he (or she) can't "find the landlord" how have they been paying the rent up to this point?

If in fact they really can't send the rent, they should attempt to send it to the place they were sending it to and then when it comes back, keep the check and the envelope along with the checks and don't spend the money. Get a new place to live as soon as you can.

They have been transferring the money directly into the Landlord's account, said they never had an address for the landlord just a phone number and he hasn't returned calls in quite some time.

They are in a situation where it is reasonable to believe that the landlord will (as the foreclosure sale hasn't happened yet) lose possession of the property and may have already just given-up and walked away. They have called him (the only method of contact they have) and notified him that if they don't get a response regarding what's going on with the building then they will put the rent aside until someone contacts them. That is simply putting the ball in his court.

I would assume they provided the landlord with a deposit, if he has walked away then they will never receive that deposit back so they are simply protecting themselves. In fact they have a legal duty to attempt to mitigate their loses in the event of an anticipated breach of the contract they have with the landlord, this would qualify as such.

Regarding the "Eviction showing on their Credit Report", I've been working with Credit Reports for 14 years and not once have I seen an eviction reported. Civil Suits can be listed but it isn't automatic and would be an additional expense to the landlord so it is rare.

[tom&tanya 48]

Wrong again.

I have prepared hundreds of leases over the years. How many have you done? I have seen people evicted by landlords who are in foreclosure for doing the the things you are telling this person to do. I have no interest in debating this subject further with people who don't know anything about Real Estate. If this person who started this wants to take your uninformed and ill advised advise ... not my problem.

[nab 74]

They have been transferring the money directly into the Landlord's account, said they never had an address for the landlord just a phone number and he hasn't returned calls in quite some time.

{snipped}

you know something that just occurred to me reading this thread???

here we have had issues down in the city with people renting (and even selling!) places they had no right to... they were just empty homes they broke into and put an ad, showed the place and rented cheaply (or took a deposit for the sale and disappearred).

OP, are you certain your 'landlord' was the owner of the property you are residing in? i believe somewhere in the thread you mentioned the phone number you contact them was disconnected... please, keep all info regarding the deposits you made to their accont.

also, they would have given you access to deposit that money to their account ala direct deposit... is that account still active?

you can do two things... check county tax records (nowadays usually online) to see if they are or were the owner of that property and also to check to see what is owed on property you can go to court house, give them your address and parcel number (get this from tax record online) and ask them if there is a case # associated with it (there should be since it is in foreclosure). look that case # up and get the info from it... it will show bank, amount they are suing and so on.

i agree with the info to deposit to an escrow account the rents ...

good luck.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Wrong again.

I have prepared hundreds of leases over the years. How many have you done? I have seen people evicted by landlords who are in foreclosure for doing the the things you are telling this person to do. I have no interest in debating this subject further with people who don't know anything about Real Estate. If this person who started this wants to take your uninformed and ill advised advise ... not my problem.

I handle 40,000 credit reports per month for the last 14 years, how many have you seen?

Tenants have rights too, they have a right to be assured that the Landlord still has their deposit and is handling things properly so they don't get shafted. If their landlord disappears on them and they are left holding the bag what then? In this situation they should have proper contact information from the Landlord and actually get their calls returned.

If the landlord is handling things properly then he won't have a problem visiting them to straighten things out.

You seem to think everyone is advocating shafting some "poor landlord" which simply isn't the case, he should be returning their calls. Shame on them for not having any paper between them as where you live is so important to anyone but shame on him for not calling them back.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

I have no interest in debating this subject further with people who don't know anything about Real Estate.

Then instead of debating the subject why not give some usable input to the OP on how he can protect himself in this situation?

Thus far all you've done is try to scare him with threats of ruining his credit...

[ScottThuy 140]

I have been teaching contract law for a long time and Tom is spot on when it comes to the legal aspects.. The tenant is an at-will tenant living month to month and the contract is extended every month that the parties agree to extend it... at this point, if the tenant stops paying, the owner can take them to court, sue them for the rent for months they lived there without paying and based on contract law, the owner would likely get a judgement and can easily evict the tenant. This is where the escrow acount idea comes in.. the money would be there and it would likely get settled before a judgement was entered... One would hope that the owner has had enough of the situation and has given up on the idea of taking money from someone only to keep it and not pay the debt owed... the fact that the owner is going through foreclosure has nothing to do with the contract to rent the property..

So the idea of not paying the rent really boils down to if the owner is willing to enforce the month to month tenancy and force the tenant to pay the money... we all see the idea of a renter paying rent and the owner not paying the mortgage as unethical.. the thing is, its not about ethics.. its about the law... and in this situation we are talking about contract law... it is legal for him to keep the rent $ and not pay the mortgage...if you really cant contact the owner to pay, then set the money aside in an escrow account in case what you are hoping will happen(he doesnt care enough to push the issue) does not happen. by staying somehwere and not paying rent, who becomes the one acting unethically/ illegally?

[tom&tanya 48]

I handle 40,000 credit reports per month for the last 14 years, how many have you seen?

Tenants have rights too, they have a right to be assured that the Landlord still has their deposit and is handling things properly so they don't get shafted. If their landlord disappears on them and they are left holding the bag what then? In this situation they should have proper contact information from the Landlord and actually get their calls returned.

If the landlord is handling things properly then he won't have a problem visiting them to straighten things out.

You seem to think everyone is advocating shafting some "poor landlord" which simply isn't the case, he should be returning their calls. Shame on them for not having any paper between them as where you live is so important to anyone but shame on him for not calling them back.

In 30 years of Real Estate ... Plenty of credit reports.

I am not advocating for the landlord at all. I don't know where you got that idea from. I am simply telling you what the law is regarding leases and the obligation to pay the rent. You and I may not like it but I didn't make the rules so don't shoot the messenger.

You are mixing up your emotions of right and wrong with a legal contract. Many times those things travel in different directions. I see plenty of injustice every day in todays word of Real Estate. People who are losing there homes out of no fault of there own and then people who did the wrong thing profiting from lies. It's a big mess right now.

Again from a purely legal standpoint:

Illinois where this person lives, is a Lien Theory State. That means the deed stays with the borrower (mortgagor), and the lender (mortgagee) places a lien on the property using the mortgage instrument. Essentially this means that regardless of whether the landlord is paying HIS mortgage, it's still legally HIS property and he can rent it and keep the money. ( I think it stinks, but again please don't shoot the messenger. )

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

I am not advocating for the landlord at all. I don't know where you got that idea from. I am simply telling you what the law is regarding leases and the obligation to pay the rent.

I fully understand the obligation to pay rent and I also understand that until the date of an actual foreclosure sale the landlord is still the legal owner of the property and can rent it out. I also understand that the landlord's mortgage is a separate contract from the renters lease (be it month to month with no ink or a fully executed document).

I got the feel that you're only looking at the situation from the landlord's side because you still haven't given the OP any suggestions on how they can force the landlord's hand and get a return phone call so they can understand the full gravity of the situation and how it will affect them in the immediate future.

I never suggested they stiff the landlord or try to get free rent. I said they should contact the landlord and tell him they will not make the next rent payment until he contacts them in person regarding the situation. If the landlord is a jerk and doesn't then I would assume they will find a new place to live so they aren't having to worry about the situation. Of course if the landlord does serve them with any notice to vacate they have time to pay or leave, their choice. If they leave then the landlord has 30 days to settle the deposit at which time they may or may not owe rent.

[ScottThuy 140]

if they are current and they decide to move, the owner will have to deal with the deposit issue as you noted... IMO the owner doesnt have the $ from the deposit to pay them and would likely walk away with that money rather than fight to get any additional rent $... JMO since they havnt been paying the mortgage...

[tom&tanya 48]

I fully understand the obligation to pay rent and I also understand that until the date of an actual foreclosure sale the landlord is still the legal owner of the property and can rent it out. I also understand that the landlord's mortgage is a separate contract from the renters lease (be it month to month with no ink or a fully executed document).

Yes.

I got the feel that you're only looking at the situation from the landlord's side because you still haven't given the OP any suggestions on how they can force the landlord's hand and get a return phone call so they can understand the full gravity of the situation and how it will affect them in the immediate future.

Again, without taking anyones side here and I say this with the utmost respect to everyone involved: The landlord is under no obligation to explain anything to the tenant about his personal finances. Would it be nice if he did? Sure, maybe. But in any case it's irrelevant to the OP's situation. What purpose does it serve to demand an explanation from the landlord? Personal satisfaction? Kick a man when he's down? Maybe this landlord is in real financial hardship. Maybe not. People tend to avoid uncomfortable embarrassing situations. We don't know. We will never know and it's frankly none of anyone's business. The OP has a month to month lease (Tenancy-at-will). The full gravity of this situation is that this property is shortly going to be owned by someone else. I already made my suggestion to the OP ... Time to move. Give the landlord 30 days notice. If the OP gave him first and last ... 1. written notice, 2. use the last month and 3. move.

Hello ... this house/condo/townhouse (whatever) is being foreclosed. TIME TO MOVE.

[Fandango 1,439]

Sorry, I've jumped a few posts, so if I echo someone or the convo's been deflected, my apols.

Whether the mortgage is being paid is not germane to the discussion - they agreed to $x per month to live there. There is no lease, so essentially, they really don't have the right to hem and haw about it going pre-foreclosure since they are getting what they pay for. Now I am also in real estate, but I am no lawyer, so I have to say I see both sides of this argument. But whether the landlord is using the rent to pay the mtg is superfluous to this discussion, as the tenants are paying to live in the property per month, and they are getting what they paid for. No guarantee such as a term is given, because there is no lease.

I'm really unsure how this would show up on a credit report? Both parties seem to have played fast and loose with the paper trail, so I doubt anyone has the tenants' socials. I can't see how it would show up on their credit

I would still urge the idea of putting the money in an escrow account, and packing.

[tom&tanya 48]

Sorry, I've jumped a few posts, so if I echo someone or the convo's been deflected, my apols.

Whether the mortgage is being paid is not germane to the discussion - they agreed to $x per month to live there. There is no lease, so essentially, they really don't have the right to hem and haw about it going pre-foreclosure since they are getting what they pay for. Now I am also in real estate, but I am no lawyer, so I have to say I see both sides of this argument. But whether the landlord is using the rent to pay the mtg is superfluous to this discussion, as the tenants are paying to live in the property per month, and they are getting what they paid for. No guarantee such as a term is given, because there is no lease.

I'm really unsure how this would show up on a credit report? Both parties seem to have played fast and loose with the paper trail, so I doubt anyone has the tenants' socials. I can't see how it would show up on their credit

I would still urge the idea of putting the money in an escrow account, and packing.

Hallelujah

[nab 74]

Hallelujah

i am so very lost she said same thing everyone else said "put money in escrow and pack" (or look for another place to live/apt etc various wording) and you praise her but attack everyone else I LOVE VJ some days, it's like watching those big ol' clowns in those teeny little cars doing crazy fast figure 8s in the middle of the parade waiting for the crash....

Edited November 17, 2010 by nab

[tom&tanya 48]

i am so very lost she said same thing everyone else said "put money in escrow and pack" (or look for another place to live/apt etc various wording) and you praise her but attack everyone else I LOVE VJ some days, it's like watching those big ol' clowns in those teeny little cars doing crazy fast figure 8s in the middle of the parade waiting for the crash....

Really? You must have missed all the: stop paying your rent, call the landlord, demand answers, it's the landlords fault, etc.

P.S. - Putting money in Escrow is not the same thing as "don't pay your rent."

[nab 74]

Really? You must have missed all the: stop paying your rent, call the landlord, demand answers, it's the landlords fault, etc.

P.S. - Putting money in Escrow is not the same thing as "don't pay your rent."

i believe you only read bad intentions into some posts... no one ever flat out told them to dont pay rent and just sit there for free doing nothing (i.e.just be a squatter). give people a break... get a glass of water, kick back, relax, put your feet up, take a chillpill. in a few hours the leonids will be shooting across the sky, after midnight till up to maybe 7am... look toward leo (the ? in the sky), enjoy the show