New York Times' Deficit Reduction Challenge

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And before the conservatives lose their collective minds at the source... this exercise actually backs up your argument about entitlements. So... check it out.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html

[Ban Hammer 13,514]

did it! 24% from tax increases, 76% from cuts

selected the following (in order)

Cut foreign aid in half

Eliminate earmarks

Cut pay of civilian federal workers by 5 percent

Reduce the federal workforce by 10 percent

Other cuts to the federal government

Reduce nuclear arsenal and space spending

Reduce military to pre-Iraq War size and further reduce troops in Asia and Europe

Reduce Navy and Air Force fleets

Cancel or delay some weapons programs

Reduce the number of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan to 30,000 by 2013

Enact medical malpractice reform

Increase the Medicare eligibility age to 68

Cap Medicare growth starting in 2013

Raise the Social Security retirement age to 68

Tighten eligibility for disability

Allow expiration for income above $250,000 a year

Payroll tax: Subject some incomes above $106,000 to tax

Millionaire's tax on income above $1 million

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I did it too, but didn't think to save my results. But I do recall my spending cuts were less than yours (surprise!), in the 60-65% range.

[scandal 951]

did it! 24% from tax increases, 76% from cuts

selected the following (in order)

Cut foreign aid in half

Eliminate earmarks

Cut pay of civilian federal workers by 5 percent

Reduce the federal workforce by 10 percent

Other cuts to the federal government

Reduce nuclear arsenal and space spending

Reduce military to pre-Iraq War size and further reduce troops in Asia and Europe

Reduce Navy and Air Force fleets

Cancel or delay some weapons programs

Reduce the number of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan to 30,000 by 2013

Enact medical malpractice reform

Increase the Medicare eligibility age to 68

Cap Medicare growth starting in 2013

Raise the Social Security retirement age to 68

Tighten eligibility for disability

Allow expiration for income above $250,000 a year

Payroll tax: Subject some incomes above $106,000 to tax

Millionaire's tax on income above $1 million

Any plans to run for office?

[Ban Hammer 13,514]

Any plans to run for office?

there was some items i wanted to see on there but didn't - like gtfo of iraq and afghanistan, raise the tax cap on social security (sorry gecko!), put the cia, fbi, and nsa under one person to eliminate turf wars, just off the top of my head.

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OK I did it again and actually my spending cuts are at 55% not 60+.

These are the cuts I picked.

Cancel or delay some weapons programs

This option would cancel the purchase of some expensive equipment, like the F35 fighter jet and MV-22 Osprey, with less expensive equipment that the bipartisan Sustainable Defense Task Force judged to have similar capability. It would delay other purchases. Research and development spending, which the task force considered a relic of the cold war arms race, would be reduced.

Reduce the number of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan to 30,000 by 2013

Cap Medicare growth starting in 2013

This option would cap the Medicare growth at G.D.P. growth plus 1 percentage point, starting in 2013. Among other things, this would crack down on many hospitals and doctors with the highest costs.

Social Security - Use an alternate measure for inflation

Some economists believe that the Consumer Price Index overstates inflation, giving Social Security recipients larger cost-of-living increases than necessary. This option would use a different, lower inflation measure both for Social Security and in the tax code (thus pushing more households into higher brackets over time). Supporters say the lower measure is more accurate. Opponents say it is less accurate for the elderly, who buy a different mix of goods and services than other households.

Return the estate tax to Clinton-era levels

Under President Bill Clinton, the estate tax exempted $1 million from any taxable estate. This level would not grow with inflation over time, subjecting more estates to the tax. The rate would start at 18 percent and climb to 55 percent, as it did in the 1990s. The 55 percent rate would begin at $3 million. If Congress takes no action, this would become law on Jan. 1, 2011.

Allow expiration for income above $250,000 a year

This option would allow the expiration, on Jan. 1, of the Bush tax cuts for the top 2 percent or so of households on the income distribution – those making $250,000 or more. On average, the change would equal about 2 percent of a given household’s pretax income.

Payroll tax: Subject some incomes above $106,000 to tax

When the payroll tax – which finances Social Security and Medicare – was created, it covered 90 percent of all income. Today, with a ceiling at $106,800, it covers closer to 80 percent. This option would gradually raise the ceiling, until 90 percent of income was again subject to the tax.

Eliminate loopholes, reduce rates (Bowles-Simpson plan)

The deficit commission proposed a series of tax overhaul plans. Each one would reduce tax breaks for companies and individuals, while lowering tax rates. On the whole, the plans would raise revenue. One plan would cut all tax breaks other than the child and earned-income tax credits and those for mortgages, health and retirement benefits. The corporate tax would then be cut to 28 percent, from 35 percent, while individual tax rates would be cut for all brackets too.

Reduce mortgage-interest deduction by converting to credit

The benefits of the mortgage-interest deduction (and several other tax breaks) flow mostly to high-income households – because they tend to have larger mortgages and have marginal income-tax rates. This option would reduce the value of some of those breaks to high-income households.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Done. NBD. I got close to 40/60 - heavier on cutting spending but leaving SSI alone.

Government contractors got the axe from me, though. Sorry Chuck.

[scandal 951]

there was some items i wanted to see on there but didn't - like gtfo of iraq and afghanistan, raise the tax cap on social security (sorry gecko!), put the cia, fbi, and nsa under one person to eliminate turf wars, just off the top of my head.

My mix was 62% in spending cuts and 38% in tax increases.

I cut less than Charles' 76% but more than AJ's 55%, about the same as Big Dog's 60%.

I went for eliminating earmarks, farm subsidies, 250K federal contractors, 5% State Aid.

On military: I picked only 2 items - Reduce Europe/Asia to pre-Iraq war commitments, and Reduce non-combat compensation & overhead.

Entitlements: Increase Medicare age to 68, Cap Medicare growth in 2013. Social Security: Increase eligibility age to 70 and re-index to alternate inflation measure.

Taxes: Enact Obama's proposals for estate taxes over $3.5million, and for 20% cap gains tax over $250K. Allow Bush tax cuts to expire over $250K, and add some payroll taxes over $106K. Also add Millionaires tax, and Bowles-Simpson plan to eliminate loopholes.

I like this thread. Thanks AJ for posting the NYT link. All of us on OT who debate US policy and politics should try this, imho.

It's quite likely the most useful thing any of us have ever debated or discussed on VJ, since it's vitally important to the country, and something that public participation can really affect. When Americans really confront openly the difficult choices we need to make, we can have an open debate about them and actually get somewhere.

I'll go further: I think, in hindsight, that Obama would have been better off tackling this issue (balancing the budget) in the past 2 years, rather than healthcare. Healthcare ultimately divided the country and no one really came away thrilled with the results. It also cost Obama and the Democrats tremendous political capital. Should they instead have made balancing the budget the key legislative priority, who knows if we might not be in a much better fiscal situation to tackle new initiatives like healthcare, and with a more unified electorate and Congress to boot?

[Ban Hammer 13,514]

Done. NBD. I got close to 40/60 - heavier on cutting spending but leaving SSI alone.

Government contractors got the axe from me, though. Sorry Chuck.

given i've probably got a wider range of experience in what some of them do, that difference between our cuts is understandable.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

given i've probably got a wider range of experience in what some of them do, that difference between our cuts is understandable.

I couldn't help but notice that you spared the these evil contractors that feed on Uncle Sam's teat.

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Please, if possible, no pissing matches.

[Ban Hammer 13,514]

I couldn't help but notice that you spared the these evil contractors that feed on Uncle Sam's teat.

actually, i didn't - you'll note i cut many military programs - that will affect civilian contractors.

Please, if possible, no pissing matches.

we'll let you borrow a ladder if it comes to that

[scandal 951]

given i've probably got a wider range of experience in what some of them do, that difference between our cuts is understandable.

I cut those contractors too. Since I have no clue what any of them do, it obviously can't be very important. :devil:

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I left the. contractors alone. Most of them are middle class people trying to make a living. I'd rather hit the rich with the mortgage deduction changing into a credit instead.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

did it! 24% from tax increases, 76% from cuts

selected the following (in order)

Cut foreign aid in half

Eliminate earmarks

Cut pay of civilian federal workers by 5 percent

Reduce the federal workforce by 10 percent

Other cuts to the federal government

Reduce nuclear arsenal and space spending

Reduce military to pre-Iraq War size and further reduce troops in Asia and Europe

Reduce Navy and Air Force fleets

Cancel or delay some weapons programs

Reduce the number of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan to 30,000 by 2013

Enact medical malpractice reform

Increase the Medicare eligibility age to 68

Cap Medicare growth starting in 2013

Raise the Social Security retirement age to 68

Tighten eligibility for disability

Allow expiration for income above $250,000 a year

Payroll tax: Subject some incomes above $106,000 to tax

Millionaire's tax on income above $1 million

You'd never make it as a Republican candidate. They'd eat you alive.